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Reply #121: The segregation is bureaucratic. [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-24-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #98
121. The segregation is bureaucratic.
If the government is placing statements concerning your religion on your ID card, then it using that information for something. This sort of thing is antithetical to the principles of a democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teudat_Zehut

" There have been some fierce legal battles about identifying the nationality of the bearer in the Israeli Identity card. As of 2005, the nationality has not been printed; a line of eight asterisks appears instead. In the past, the nationality of Jewish Israelis was indicated as "Jewish", rather than "Israeli". In 2002, the Supreme Court of Israel instructed the Interior Ministry to indicate the nationality of people who underwent a Reform conversion as Jews. The Minister at the time, Eli Yishai, a member of Shas, an Orthodox party, decided he would drop the nationality category altogether, rather than list as Jews people whom he considered non-Jews. In 2004 the Supreme Court denied a citizen's petition to reinstate this indicator, stating that the field in the document was meant for statistical collection only, and not as a declarative statement of Judaism. Currently, the only way to determine whether an Identity card belongs to a Jew is to check whether the Hebrew date of birth appears in addition to the civil date. "

Prior to 2005, your provenance figured on your card. This could not have been for 'security reasons' since it would say if you are Russian, or whatever. Currently, according to the wikipedia article, the card will inform the cops if you are jewish or not, and nothing else.
And how the hell does the system know you are jewish to begin with, anyways? Is there a rabbi poring over birth records?
I have always wondered about these sort of things, especially concerning the Saudi ban on non-muslims in Mecca. No such thing as a card-carrying muslim.
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  -Gaza suffering "massive" rights violations - U.N. Jcrowley  Nov-20-06 10:48 PM   #0 
  - The UN is pathetic  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 08:55 AM   #1 
  - Nothing in this report that has not been repeated by any  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 10:53 AM   #5 
  - Indeed, the bias agaisnt Israel...  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 12:54 PM   #8 
     - I am dealing with the present reality.  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 01:14 PM   #10 
        - Yes, if you're already made up your mind...  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 01:33 PM   #12 
           - So is that why HRW, Amnesty International and so many others  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 01:34 PM   #13 
              - Why yes, the bias is part of the problem  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 02:37 PM   #14 
                 - Human rights groups HAVE reported on human rights violations against Israelis...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 03:07 PM   #15 
                 - yes, reluctantly and belatedly  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 06:32 PM   #26 
                 - So it seems just about *everyone* is biased against Israel.  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 03:11 PM   #16 
                    - Sounds like a roll of shame...  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 06:31 PM   #25 
                       - Ya, those liberals...  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 10:04 PM   #36 
                          - ...as if liberals are immune to bias.  Behind the Aegis   Nov-21-06 10:08 PM   #37 
                          - He also called those liberals a roll of shame n/t  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 11:14 PM   #38 
                          - No, I called Arab stooges a roll of shame  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:23 AM   #48 
                             - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 03:49 AM   #56 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 09:49 AM   #64 
                                - Meanwhile, Palestinian children suffer undr one of the most brutal  Tom Joad   Nov-22-06 12:03 PM   #70 
                          - Call me one of the Amnesty International-types.  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 11:14 PM   #39 
                          - I'm a member of AI as well...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 11:15 PM   #40 
                          - It's worth the verbal abuse and personal attacks, the vile website  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 11:35 PM   #42 
                             - I think the abuse is abjectly pathetic...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-22-06 04:12 AM   #60 
                          - But as an ACLU member...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:24 AM   #49 
                             - As long as it has nothing to do with your sacred Israel?  IntiRaymi   Nov-23-06 01:32 PM   #92 
                          - Liberal-bashing, now? n/t  Englander   Nov-23-06 04:38 AM   #86 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 01:20 AM   #47 
                             - How do you define 'support'?  Violet_Crumble   Nov-22-06 03:59 AM   #57 
                             - Your imaginative misinterpretations...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:55 PM   #72 
                                - 54% of Democrats support neutrality not alignment  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-22-06 09:09 PM   #85 
                             - Human Rights Watch is "far leftist"?  Tom Joad   Nov-22-06 10:21 AM   #66 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 01:55 PM   #73 
  - The UN is not anti Israeli  nicoll   Nov-22-06 11:25 AM   #68 
     - Dear Nicoll, that was almost 60 years ago.  msmcghee   Nov-22-06 01:01 PM   #71 
        - yes I know it was 60 years ago  nicoll   Nov-23-06 10:57 AM   #88 
           - cactus48?  Lurking Dem   Nov-23-06 12:42 PM   #89 
           - Yes, each of your posts, so far, reveal . .  msmcghee   Nov-23-06 12:46 PM   #90 
              - I strongly suspect that they want to eliminate a European colony  IntiRaymi   Nov-23-06 01:35 PM   #93 
              - Well, I think you are generally right.  msmcghee   Nov-23-06 01:48 PM   #95 
                 - Israel defines itself as Jewish.  IntiRaymi   Nov-23-06 01:59 PM   #96 
              - The Arab Peace Initiative  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-23-06 11:17 PM   #97 
              - I have been studying you post . .  msmcghee   Nov-24-06 10:54 AM   #106 
                 - well here is a very basic break down I found from the BBC  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-24-06 05:22 PM   #111 
                    - Thanks for your clarification.  msmcghee   Nov-24-06 07:42 PM   #118 
                       - mutual terrifying fear is what fuels most ethnic conflicts around the world  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-25-06 03:35 AM   #126 
                          - let me interupt....  pelsar   Nov-25-06 11:39 AM   #130 
              - Israel should have pulled out of the West Bank instead of the GS  nicoll   Nov-25-06 05:58 AM   #127 
  - lets hope that  pelsar   Nov-21-06 09:08 AM   #2 
  - Lets hope that Olmert and his accomplices are tried in the Hague  Tom Joad   Nov-21-06 10:37 AM   #3 
  - you would have to add  pelsar   Nov-21-06 10:51 AM   #4 
     - Well, try those responsible for the greater misdeeds first.  IntiRaymi   Nov-21-06 08:47 PM   #34 
     - And only one is the occupier, the other is the occupied.  Tom Joad   Nov-22-06 12:15 AM   #44 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 01:27 AM   #51 
     - Thusly flying in the face of history?  IntiRaymi   Nov-22-06 01:51 AM   #54 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 01:26 AM   #50 
        - Simply Amazing!  IntiRaymi   Nov-22-06 01:58 AM   #55 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 04:09 AM   #59 
              - And I think  cali   Nov-22-06 05:53 AM   #62 
     - It appears the answer is "no."  Behind the Aegis   Nov-22-06 01:08 AM   #46 
  - Maybe the Palestinians would stop shooting their  lumpy   Nov-21-06 10:57 AM   #6 
  - maybe a history lesson?  pelsar   Nov-21-06 12:05 PM   #7 
  - The invisible West Bank...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 01:30 PM   #11 
     - i dont forget it...  pelsar   Nov-21-06 03:26 PM   #17 
        - You never mention it in those sorts of posts though...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 03:46 PM   #18 
           - i never get any responses....however...  pelsar   Nov-21-06 04:09 PM   #21 
              - I think yr expectations are unreasonable and conflicting...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 04:20 PM   #23 
                 - It's a small step but it's a start in the right direction...  pelsar   Nov-21-06 04:32 PM   #24 
                    - Why I don't think Gaza was a small step in the right direction...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 11:24 PM   #41 
                       - and how we see it....  pelsar   Nov-21-06 11:59 PM   #43 
                       - i miss read....  pelsar   Nov-22-06 01:04 AM   #45 
  - Lust for territory...  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 12:58 PM   #9 
     - you keep using Egypt as proof about Israels lack of interest in stealing land,  breakaleg   Nov-21-06 06:51 PM   #28 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-21-06 07:55 PM   #31 
        - The information I read stated they were also keeping settlements  breakaleg   Nov-21-06 08:59 PM   #35 
           - Incredble  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:31 AM   #52 
              - I suggest if yr going to call things lies, you start backing it up with FACTS...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-22-06 04:03 AM   #58 
                 - I have, repeatedly...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:58 PM   #74 
                    - Why is that debate over? The UN said it should be an international city.  breakaleg   Nov-22-06 06:58 PM   #81 
        - I can't understand that either. If there were a plan to move all of them  Tom Joad   Nov-22-06 10:31 AM   #67 
        - Any references for this?  nodular   Nov-24-06 09:09 PM   #122 
           - There are several links on this thread:  Scurrilous   Nov-25-06 03:27 AM   #125 
              - One link on that thread: it is no longer operable.  nodular   Nov-25-06 09:13 AM   #129 
                 - Regarding expanding settlements in the West Bank ...  Scurrilous   Nov-25-06 04:05 PM   #131 
                    - That's enough, thanks.  nodular   Nov-26-06 12:18 PM   #133 
  - While I agree that the rockets must stop...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-21-06 03:56 PM   #20 
     - i think its more "frustation"  pelsar   Nov-21-06 04:13 PM   #22 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-21-06 07:57 PM   #32 
  - Maybe  Jcrowley   Nov-21-06 03:51 PM   #19 
     - We already have...  Boston Critic   Nov-21-06 06:35 PM   #27 
        - And as soon as they cut Aid to Israel, we'll have something to talk about.  breakaleg   Nov-21-06 06:53 PM   #29 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-21-06 07:52 PM   #30 
              - Because they are oppressing the Palestinians. I know that doesn't mean  breakaleg   Nov-21-06 08:46 PM   #33 
                 - No, they aren't  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 01:33 AM   #53 
                    - Of course Israel is oppressing the Palestinian people...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-22-06 04:23 AM   #61 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-22-06 02:03 PM   #75 
                    - Sorry, but to deny that  cali   Nov-22-06 05:59 AM   #63 
                    - Sorry, to pretend there is an "occupation"...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 02:04 PM   #76 
                       - I was too young to be calling it anything,  cali   Nov-23-06 08:09 AM   #87 
                          - I'm sure they'll manage just fine with the pigeon holing...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-23-06 01:17 PM   #91 
                          - Fair enough, you are unbiased here.  nodular   Nov-24-06 09:15 PM   #123 
                    - If you don't believe that, then what is the point of any discussion?  breakaleg   Nov-22-06 10:14 AM   #65 
                    - Setting the record straight  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 02:04 PM   #77 
                       - At least I can say that your posts make me laugh.  breakaleg   Nov-22-06 02:47 PM   #79 
                          - Your posts make me weep...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 02:57 PM   #80 
                             - good one! LOL! oh, and right back at you!  breakaleg   Nov-22-06 06:59 PM   #82 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-24-06 07:15 AM   #102 
                                   - where do you get this from? If you can read, then you didn't read it in my posts.  breakaleg   Nov-24-06 06:13 PM   #116 
                                      - Better take another look  Boston Critic   Nov-25-06 06:28 AM   #128 
                    - every credible & independent human rights organization on the face of this  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-22-06 11:54 AM   #69 
                       - Thanks for agreeing...  Boston Critic   Nov-22-06 02:06 PM   #78 
                          - many of these "wild accusations" that you speak of are attested to  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-22-06 08:33 PM   #83 
                          - That's like saying....  breakaleg   Nov-22-06 08:39 PM   #84 
                          - I ask you again:  IntiRaymi   Nov-23-06 01:39 PM   #94 
                             - not israel...wrong country...  pelsar   Nov-23-06 11:58 PM   #98 
                             - The segregation is bureaucratic.  IntiRaymi   Nov-24-06 08:02 PM   #121 
                             - I cant resist.....(hope this doesnt stop the thread)  pelsar   Nov-24-06 01:03 AM   #99 
                             - Just curious...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-24-06 01:07 AM   #100 
                                - i never actually compared the info...  pelsar   Nov-24-06 04:41 AM   #101 
                                - Separate discussion  Boston Critic   Nov-24-06 07:19 AM   #104 
                                   - I didn't ask you and I didn't ask about the US...  Violet_Crumble   Nov-25-06 09:20 PM   #132 
                             - Israel IS a Democracy  Boston Critic   Nov-24-06 07:17 AM   #103 
                                - I definitely agree that Israel has some very strong democratic institutions  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-24-06 08:04 AM   #105 
                                   - Thanks for posting that. I look forward to the replies. nt  breakaleg   Nov-24-06 11:10 AM   #107 
                                   - of course their is predjudice....  pelsar   Nov-24-06 11:23 AM   #108 
                                   - it would not be surprising that most Palestinians with Israeli citizenship  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-24-06 04:26 PM   #109 
                                      - That sounds a lot like how I was treated as a hippy in the 60's.  msmcghee   Nov-24-06 05:04 PM   #110 
                                         - You are making a bad analogy  IntiRaymi   Nov-24-06 05:27 PM   #112 
                                         - I could be wrong about this too . . .  msmcghee   Nov-24-06 06:08 PM   #115 
                                         - I might suggest that to get the real story one need to listen to both sides  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-24-06 05:51 PM   #113 
                                            - People sometimes make dramatic changes in their belief systems.  msmcghee   Nov-24-06 06:01 PM   #114 
                                               - i'm afraid i cant help a whole lot....  pelsar   Nov-24-06 07:01 PM   #117 
                                                  - Why would having a Palestinian or Israeli-Arab poster be embarrassing to posters here?  breakaleg   Nov-24-06 07:43 PM   #119 
                                                     - because of the false information that is written in their names....  pelsar   Nov-25-06 02:32 AM   #124 
                                                     - I can think of a few reasons...  newyorican   Nov-29-06 09:12 PM   #134 
                                   - Thanks for all the links, Douglas nt  IntiRaymi   Nov-24-06 07:54 PM   #120 
 

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