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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good summary - I have one minor problem with it
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 10:58 AM by slackmaster
Any time you cast the right of civilians to own guns as protected by the Second Amendment you set yourself up for a non-productive discussion on the intent of its authors, what the courts have said about it historically, and what it means or should mean in the current context. The real problem with federal gun control is that it rests on a shaky foundation - Federal power granted by the Interstate Commerce clause of the Constitution, stretched beyond recognition. You can see that starting to crack when you read the fine print of recent proposals to "close the gun-show loophole". The federal government simply has no business regulating activity that is neither interstate nor commerce.

There is no federal minimum age to drink alcohol and it has no power to do so, but all the states have managed to set it at 21. The federal government used its powers of persuasion by controlling the purse strings on federal highway funds to achieve that standard. The same principle can be applied to gun regulations, e.g. the IMO reasonable prohibitions against convicted felons, etc. having guns.

I say if the Supreme Court won't directly address the meaning of the 2A (as it has been conspicuously avoiding for decades), then leave that out of the dialogue. Our nation is founded on the idea that we are independent and free people who decide for ourselves what to say, own, believe, do, and how to live. The basic human rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness are sufficient of a foundation for a right to keep and bear arms. Objects should never be regulated unless they pose a hazard all by themselves, e.g. chemical, biological, and nuclear materials. Guns become a problem only when a human intentionally or negligently mis-uses them. Laws and enforcement should focus on criminal misuse.

We as Democrats should enshrine personal liberty in all aspects of life. When I joined the party in 1976 I thought that was one of our core values. We seem to have forgotten that along the way, and it has cost us dearly.

Thanks for taking the time to express your views.
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  -Dems and the Gun Issue--Now What? benEzra  Jan-05-05 10:33 AM   #0 
  - You're right.  coloradodem2005   Jan-05-05 10:44 AM   #1 
  - Good summary - I have one minor problem with it  slackmaster   Jan-05-05 10:57 AM   #2 
  - Thanks, and good point. (n/t)  benEzra   Jan-05-05 11:20 AM   #3 
  - Excellent point "The basic human rights of liberty and the pursuit of  jody   Jan-05-05 11:55 AM   #6 
  - Advocating blackmail...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:09 PM   #26 
  - great post  Romulus   Jan-05-05 11:29 AM   #4 
  - Wonderful Post!  Postmanx   Jan-05-05 11:45 AM   #5 
  - Reads well.  aikoaiko   Jan-05-05 12:13 PM   #7 
  - Outstanding.  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 05:59 PM   #8 
  - You Can Dress It Up All You Want......  Paladin   Jan-05-05 06:48 PM   #9 
  - Only a fool keeps on doing the same things  Retired AF Dem   Jan-05-05 07:22 PM   #10 
  - Kerry's goose hunt  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 07:55 PM   #11 
  - Amo Tax & Gun Cintrol Votes  KerryOn   Jan-18-05 05:24 PM   #32 
  - I agree to a point...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:39 PM   #33 
  - You have inadvertently made the pro-gun case.  Silverhair   Jul-10-05 05:52 PM   #70 
  - Folks just don't get..  sendero   Jul-11-05 07:55 AM   #74 
  - Gun prohibition became a pet issue only recently...  benEzra   Jan-05-05 08:04 PM   #12 
  - When did this become the "traditional core belief" of the party?  bperci108   Jan-06-05 04:47 PM   #14 
  - The Democratic Party Is Not "Anti-Gun".....  Paladin   Jan-06-05 07:20 PM   #16 
     - The exact statement from the party platform  Billy Ruffian   Jan-06-05 07:33 PM   #17 
     - I hope you're right...  bperci108   Jan-16-05 03:16 PM   #20 
     - You Want Hostility? I'll Show You Hostility  Paladin   Jan-16-05 03:45 PM   #22 
        - Hostility will get you absolutely nothing...  bperci108   Jan-17-05 08:12 AM   #23 
           - 90% Of Your Post 23......  Paladin   Jan-17-05 06:18 PM   #25 
              - Wow.  bperci108   Jan-23-05 08:49 AM   #36 
     - You are right about...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:38 PM   #27 
     - Fair or not, if you're anti-semi-automatics, you're considered "anti-gun"  derby378   Jun-08-05 02:59 PM   #59 
  - Paladan please read  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:33 PM   #40 
     - Just Watch What Happens Here In The Gun Dungeon.....  Paladin   Jun-01-05 06:53 PM   #42 
        - At least thanks for reading  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 07:13 PM   #43 
        - It's Always The Democrats' Fault, Right?  Paladin   Jun-01-05 07:24 PM   #44 
           - No, not "fault"  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 10:20 PM   #45 
        - The Democratic Party  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:36 PM   #46 
        - And just a little taste of how pro-gun the Democratic Party is  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:49 PM   #47 
  - I am blown away. Best post in memory in the Gungeon.  skippythwndrdog   Jan-06-05 12:19 PM   #13 
  - This is a Fantastic post.  Factoid   Jan-06-05 05:09 PM   #15 
  - Yes,  benEzra   Jan-07-05 07:33 AM   #18 
  - Dandy!  alwynsw   Jan-07-05 11:54 AM   #19 
  - this is about the best damn post on DU! nice! n/t  Cooper   Jan-16-05 03:25 PM   #21 
  - This is critical reading material.  Peak_Oil   Jan-17-05 11:24 AM   #24 
  - You have made some good poits.  KerryOn   Jan-17-05 08:41 PM   #28 
  - The thing that hurt Senator Kerry the most...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:10 AM   #29 
     - (hijack) re:the Kennedy Bill  Romulus   Jan-18-05 10:30 AM   #30 
        - That's what the SUMMARY said...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 11:01 AM   #31 
  - awesome, this gets my vote!  enfield collector   Jan-19-05 08:22 PM   #34 
  - Great post benEzra  turnkey   Jan-20-05 01:21 AM   #35 
  - Very well said  IronHorseman   May-22-05 08:30 AM   #37 
  - Great Post! Here's some food for thought, if you think guns  doc03   May-22-05 09:02 AM   #38 
  - Excellent Post - Thank You - N/T  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:18 PM   #39 
  - Excellent Post  Jack_DeLeon   Jun-01-05 03:36 PM   #41 
  - Agree-Excellent Post  Xela   Jun-02-05 08:16 AM   #48 
  - Always enjoy your posts. But what do we do with armor-piercing bullets?  farmbo   Jun-05-05 11:48 AM   #49 
  - Let me reply at some length...  benEzra   Jun-05-05 05:06 PM   #50 
     - Thanks...I take it that we could oppose center fire rds for handguns...  farmbo   Jun-06-05 06:28 AM   #52 
        - If you oppose center fire rounds for handguns  Billy Ruffian   Jun-06-05 07:54 AM   #53 
           - Slip of the keyboard?  benEzra   Jun-07-05 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Here is how to win on gun issues....  HardWorkingDem   Jun-06-05 02:37 AM   #51 
  - I'm a Republican...  astrawinski   Jun-07-05 11:15 AM   #54 
  - Thanks for stopping by  Wickerman   Jun-07-05 11:44 AM   #55 
  - Q: Why can't I find this on the greatest page?  SlipperySlope   Jun-07-05 05:59 PM   #57 
  - its a nearly six month old post  Wickerman   Jun-08-05 02:50 PM   #58 
  - To See Another Democrat Write So...  newswolf56   Jun-10-05 02:22 AM   #60 
  - And thank you...  Xela   Jun-16-05 02:44 PM   #61 
     - Just now noticed your response; sorry if I seemed...  newswolf56   Jun-19-05 07:13 PM   #63 
        - Re: Hentoff  Xela   Jun-19-05 08:08 PM   #64 
           - Ooops. STOOOPID mistake on my part. Should have said...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:31 AM   #66 
              - And now I just discovered it's too late...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:35 AM   #67 
              - newfield, hentoff ...  iverglas   Jun-25-05 06:24 PM   #68 
  - Gee, Somebody with a clue!  JeffUAW   Jun-18-05 04:26 PM   #62 
  - A right excellent article!!!  Van23   Jun-24-05 11:00 PM   #65 
  - This should be our stance! (a comment from somebody who hates guns)  DFLer4edu   Jun-29-05 05:07 AM   #69 
  - it only applies to flintlock muskets  Swamp Fox   Jul-10-05 07:00 PM   #71 
  - That is a dangerous way of thinking.  virginia mountainman   Jul-10-05 07:07 PM   #72 
  - Since merely raising the price on some handgun magazines,  benEzra   Jul-11-05 07:09 AM   #73 
  - I'm trying to understand the fascination of gun-ownership - but it does  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 05:31 PM   #75 
  - Do we have to be fascinated  Turnagain   Apr-18-07 07:57 PM   #76 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-18-07 11:50 PM   #79 
  - Shooting is a skill  qdemn7   Apr-18-07 10:31 PM   #77 
  - I can understand that in sport.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 11:47 PM   #78 
     - You want serious answers?  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 04:25 AM   #80 
     - You are correct - I am curious ......  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:17 AM   #84 
        - Thank you  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 11:01 AM   #87 
           - You're right.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 11:35 AM   #88 
     - Approximately one third of U.S. women personally own a gun  benEzra   Apr-19-07 08:07 AM   #82 
     - Hi-  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:24 AM   #86 
        - More an urban vs. non-urban thing, I'd say...  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:40 PM   #89 
           - Right - I'm in the SF Bay Area and I'm sure that gun ownership increases  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 04:52 PM   #91 
              - See post number 81 for an answer to that question at some length.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 06:06 AM   #93 
     - Not so sure about gender  saddlesore   Apr-19-07 10:04 AM   #83 
  - Someone once asked me that on Common Ground Common Sense  benEzra   Apr-19-07 07:31 AM   #81 
     - Thanks - it was my fault in that I did indeed gloss over it.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 06:17 PM   #94 
        - The problem is that prohibitions can easily be circumvented.  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 06:48 PM   #95 
        - Good point -  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 09:49 PM   #97 
           - Yes I do  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 10:12 PM   #98 
              - There would have to be a change in Federal HIPPA regulations in  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 10:57 PM   #99 
                 - As a matter of fact  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 11:07 PM   #100 
        - I think that for the most part, it is.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 08:31 PM   #96 
  - Excellent!!  Van23   Apr-19-07 10:22 AM   #85 
     - Never have. I'd probably need to update it a little (lots of 2004 references there)  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:42 PM   #90 
        - You really should  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 05:40 PM   #92 
 

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