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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 02:22 AM
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60. To See Another Democrat Write So...
...eloquently and persuasively in favor of our party taking a more rational stance toward American firearms owners is the best homecoming I could possibly have been given -- "homecoming" because (though a Democrat for most of my life) I nevertheless spent a long period alienated from the party. I was banished from a local Democratic organization by its dominant members' vindictive hostility to firearms owners (an ugly reality about which I obviously need say little more). There were further embitterments too -- matters of Democratic social policy that, in their effect on me personally, merely intensified the vicious agenda of the Reaganoids -- but this is not the thread upon which to speak of them. Nevertheless, my genuine horror at Bush Administration domestic policy has finally brought me back into the Democratic fold and therefore eventually onto this site, though my fear of finding again the same anti-gun hatefulness I encountered in Bellingham, Washington c. 1986 kept me away from DU until just last week. Your post (and its subsequent elaborations) are therefore tantamount to a genuine embrace.

I have been an NRA member since 1951, shot competitively in high school ROTC in the 1950s and was a hunter in my younger years. But I finally reached a point at which my distinctly Pagan Gaia-consciousness will no longer allow me to hunt unless my own survival depends upon it, though I remain very much a "gun guy" -- one who appreciates firearms both for practical reasons and aesthetically as hand-held sculpture, one who enjoys not only the contest-with-self that is marksmanship but also the applied physics of handloading, ballistics and the intricacies of bedding. My favorite caliber is of course the .30-'06 -- the issue cartridge of my Regular Army military-service years -- with the hoary old .45-70 running a very close second. I am fortunate that, even with 65-year-old eyesight, I can still very much hold my own with iron sights and a good rifle out to 500 yards and even beyond. Which is not to boast -- but rather to convey the depth of my appreciation for all that you have said.

Moreover I too am nothing like the mythical "right-wing gun-nut" so beloved of some of our caricaturists. I belong to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, was twice a Democratic PC during the 1970s, and was sufficiently devoted to the Southern Civil Rights Movement to not only have gone to jail for it in 1963 but -- as a consequence -- to have brought on myself a "radical" stigma that severely and permanently damaged my journalism career: something I would nevertheless do again. I have been a firearms owner all my life -- and on more than one occasion, the presence of a gun has kept me from harm and in fact probably saved my life. Indeed it is one of my personal axioms that Real Leftists Own Guns.

As to claims about the Democratic legacy on firearms, others have covered them more than adequately with their citations of Jefferson. I will add only that the late Sen. Warren Magnuson was as staunch a defender of the Second Amendment as he was of welfare rights and the environment, also that I am old enough to know Eleanor Roosevelt was herself a crack pistol shot. She practiced regularly on the range that was then in the White House basement and often went armed as she toured the United States -- especially in regions where genuinely liberated women were deeply resented. It was at least partly for this reason I was so appalled by the presumptuousness and dishonesty of anti-gun Hillary Clinton's effort to equate herself with Mrs. Roosevelt -- Mrs. Roosevelt whose husband was quite possibly America's greatest president ever, Mrs. Roosevelt who was unquestionably our greatest and most forward-looking First Lady.

Which brings me to the party's present-day firearms schism: I believe this has more to do with class division -- especially the hostility toward the blue-collar class that is the ugly lingering legacy of the Vietnam years -- than any other single factor. Yes, the Communitarian scheme for total disarmament played a significant role, as did the radical-feminist view that the firearm is a surrogate for the (hated) penis. But neither of these authoritarian hoplophobic ideologies -- nor for that matter the generalized big-city (disarmed) urbanite's fear of the (armed) country-dweller -- would have taken hold had not the petri-dish of class hostility provided it the medium in which to grow. Indeed, in this context, the anti-gun sentiment is not the cause of our divorcement from, say, the United Mine Workers membership of East Tennessee and West Virginia, but rather instead its chief symptom. Therefore I believe if we heal the class-schism, all the rest will fall into place of its own accord. Or so I suspect: what I have posited here is but a hypothesis -- one toward which I have a definitively open mind.

In any case, benEzra, many many thanks.
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  -Dems and the Gun Issue--Now What? benEzra  Jan-05-05 10:33 AM   #0 
  - You're right.  coloradodem2005   Jan-05-05 10:44 AM   #1 
  - Good summary - I have one minor problem with it  slackmaster   Jan-05-05 10:57 AM   #2 
  - Thanks, and good point. (n/t)  benEzra   Jan-05-05 11:20 AM   #3 
  - Excellent point "The basic human rights of liberty and the pursuit of  jody   Jan-05-05 11:55 AM   #6 
  - Advocating blackmail...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:09 PM   #26 
  - great post  Romulus   Jan-05-05 11:29 AM   #4 
  - Wonderful Post!  Postmanx   Jan-05-05 11:45 AM   #5 
  - Reads well.  aikoaiko   Jan-05-05 12:13 PM   #7 
  - Outstanding.  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 05:59 PM   #8 
  - You Can Dress It Up All You Want......  Paladin   Jan-05-05 06:48 PM   #9 
  - Only a fool keeps on doing the same things  Retired AF Dem   Jan-05-05 07:22 PM   #10 
  - Kerry's goose hunt  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 07:55 PM   #11 
  - Amo Tax & Gun Cintrol Votes  KerryOn   Jan-18-05 05:24 PM   #32 
  - I agree to a point...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:39 PM   #33 
  - You have inadvertently made the pro-gun case.  Silverhair   Jul-10-05 05:52 PM   #70 
  - Folks just don't get..  sendero   Jul-11-05 07:55 AM   #74 
  - Gun prohibition became a pet issue only recently...  benEzra   Jan-05-05 08:04 PM   #12 
  - When did this become the "traditional core belief" of the party?  bperci108   Jan-06-05 04:47 PM   #14 
  - The Democratic Party Is Not "Anti-Gun".....  Paladin   Jan-06-05 07:20 PM   #16 
     - The exact statement from the party platform  Billy Ruffian   Jan-06-05 07:33 PM   #17 
     - I hope you're right...  bperci108   Jan-16-05 03:16 PM   #20 
     - You Want Hostility? I'll Show You Hostility  Paladin   Jan-16-05 03:45 PM   #22 
        - Hostility will get you absolutely nothing...  bperci108   Jan-17-05 08:12 AM   #23 
           - 90% Of Your Post 23......  Paladin   Jan-17-05 06:18 PM   #25 
              - Wow.  bperci108   Jan-23-05 08:49 AM   #36 
     - You are right about...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:38 PM   #27 
     - Fair or not, if you're anti-semi-automatics, you're considered "anti-gun"  derby378   Jun-08-05 02:59 PM   #59 
  - Paladan please read  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:33 PM   #40 
     - Just Watch What Happens Here In The Gun Dungeon.....  Paladin   Jun-01-05 06:53 PM   #42 
        - At least thanks for reading  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 07:13 PM   #43 
        - It's Always The Democrats' Fault, Right?  Paladin   Jun-01-05 07:24 PM   #44 
           - No, not "fault"  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 10:20 PM   #45 
        - The Democratic Party  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:36 PM   #46 
        - And just a little taste of how pro-gun the Democratic Party is  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:49 PM   #47 
  - I am blown away. Best post in memory in the Gungeon.  skippythwndrdog   Jan-06-05 12:19 PM   #13 
  - This is a Fantastic post.  Factoid   Jan-06-05 05:09 PM   #15 
  - Yes,  benEzra   Jan-07-05 07:33 AM   #18 
  - Dandy!  alwynsw   Jan-07-05 11:54 AM   #19 
  - this is about the best damn post on DU! nice! n/t  Cooper   Jan-16-05 03:25 PM   #21 
  - This is critical reading material.  Peak_Oil   Jan-17-05 11:24 AM   #24 
  - You have made some good poits.  KerryOn   Jan-17-05 08:41 PM   #28 
  - The thing that hurt Senator Kerry the most...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:10 AM   #29 
     - (hijack) re:the Kennedy Bill  Romulus   Jan-18-05 10:30 AM   #30 
        - That's what the SUMMARY said...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 11:01 AM   #31 
  - awesome, this gets my vote!  enfield collector   Jan-19-05 08:22 PM   #34 
  - Great post benEzra  turnkey   Jan-20-05 01:21 AM   #35 
  - Very well said  IronHorseman   May-22-05 08:30 AM   #37 
  - Great Post! Here's some food for thought, if you think guns  doc03   May-22-05 09:02 AM   #38 
  - Excellent Post - Thank You - N/T  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:18 PM   #39 
  - Excellent Post  Jack_DeLeon   Jun-01-05 03:36 PM   #41 
  - Agree-Excellent Post  Xela   Jun-02-05 08:16 AM   #48 
  - Always enjoy your posts. But what do we do with armor-piercing bullets?  farmbo   Jun-05-05 11:48 AM   #49 
  - Let me reply at some length...  benEzra   Jun-05-05 05:06 PM   #50 
     - Thanks...I take it that we could oppose center fire rds for handguns...  farmbo   Jun-06-05 06:28 AM   #52 
        - If you oppose center fire rounds for handguns  Billy Ruffian   Jun-06-05 07:54 AM   #53 
           - Slip of the keyboard?  benEzra   Jun-07-05 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Here is how to win on gun issues....  HardWorkingDem   Jun-06-05 02:37 AM   #51 
  - I'm a Republican...  astrawinski   Jun-07-05 11:15 AM   #54 
  - Thanks for stopping by  Wickerman   Jun-07-05 11:44 AM   #55 
  - Q: Why can't I find this on the greatest page?  SlipperySlope   Jun-07-05 05:59 PM   #57 
  - its a nearly six month old post  Wickerman   Jun-08-05 02:50 PM   #58 
  - To See Another Democrat Write So...  newswolf56   Jun-10-05 02:22 AM   #60 
  - And thank you...  Xela   Jun-16-05 02:44 PM   #61 
     - Just now noticed your response; sorry if I seemed...  newswolf56   Jun-19-05 07:13 PM   #63 
        - Re: Hentoff  Xela   Jun-19-05 08:08 PM   #64 
           - Ooops. STOOOPID mistake on my part. Should have said...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:31 AM   #66 
              - And now I just discovered it's too late...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:35 AM   #67 
              - newfield, hentoff ...  iverglas   Jun-25-05 06:24 PM   #68 
  - Gee, Somebody with a clue!  JeffUAW   Jun-18-05 04:26 PM   #62 
  - A right excellent article!!!  Van23   Jun-24-05 11:00 PM   #65 
  - This should be our stance! (a comment from somebody who hates guns)  DFLer4edu   Jun-29-05 05:07 AM   #69 
  - it only applies to flintlock muskets  Swamp Fox   Jul-10-05 07:00 PM   #71 
  - That is a dangerous way of thinking.  virginia mountainman   Jul-10-05 07:07 PM   #72 
  - Since merely raising the price on some handgun magazines,  benEzra   Jul-11-05 07:09 AM   #73 
  - I'm trying to understand the fascination of gun-ownership - but it does  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 05:31 PM   #75 
  - Do we have to be fascinated  Turnagain   Apr-18-07 07:57 PM   #76 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-18-07 11:50 PM   #79 
  - Shooting is a skill  qdemn7   Apr-18-07 10:31 PM   #77 
  - I can understand that in sport.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 11:47 PM   #78 
     - You want serious answers?  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 04:25 AM   #80 
     - You are correct - I am curious ......  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:17 AM   #84 
        - Thank you  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 11:01 AM   #87 
           - You're right.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 11:35 AM   #88 
     - Approximately one third of U.S. women personally own a gun  benEzra   Apr-19-07 08:07 AM   #82 
     - Hi-  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:24 AM   #86 
        - More an urban vs. non-urban thing, I'd say...  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:40 PM   #89 
           - Right - I'm in the SF Bay Area and I'm sure that gun ownership increases  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 04:52 PM   #91 
              - See post number 81 for an answer to that question at some length.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 06:06 AM   #93 
     - Not so sure about gender  saddlesore   Apr-19-07 10:04 AM   #83 
  - Someone once asked me that on Common Ground Common Sense  benEzra   Apr-19-07 07:31 AM   #81 
     - Thanks - it was my fault in that I did indeed gloss over it.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 06:17 PM   #94 
        - The problem is that prohibitions can easily be circumvented.  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 06:48 PM   #95 
        - Good point -  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 09:49 PM   #97 
           - Yes I do  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 10:12 PM   #98 
              - There would have to be a change in Federal HIPPA regulations in  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 10:57 PM   #99 
                 - As a matter of fact  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 11:07 PM   #100 
        - I think that for the most part, it is.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 08:31 PM   #96 
  - Excellent!!  Van23   Apr-19-07 10:22 AM   #85 
     - Never have. I'd probably need to update it a little (lots of 2004 references there)  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:42 PM   #90 
        - You really should  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 05:40 PM   #92 
 

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