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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. Paladan please read
Oh heck, I'm just a noob on this board, everyone will probably ignore me, but I want to say my piece.

I understand your point about "vote whoring". Nobody wants to see the Democrats become "Republicans Light" in order to win elections. But what I perceive, and many other people here are saying, is that strong gun control just isn't consistent with the rest of the principles that we stand for.

Take abortion; we support it in part because it is a woman's private choice and none of the government's damn business.

Gay rights; again, a private matter and none of the government's business.

None of us want to see the government compiling lists of citizens based on what books they read, or what internet sites they visit.

From my point of view, I'm not asking the party to whore to gun owners, I'm not asking them to become "republicans light", I'm just asking them to be consistent. I, and many like me, think that owning guns is a private matter, and a public good. When you ban them, or restrict them, or register them, you are in effect coming into my home - intruding on my privacy - and making the government more intrusive into our private lives. When you register my guns, you are putting me on a "list" of citizens, and I don't know who is ever going to look at that list with suspicion.

There is simply no way that the party could become anti-abortion and still remain true to it's values. But the party could easily become more pro-gun and be true to itself.

We can be pro-gun and think the war is wrong.
We can be pro-gun and know we were lied to.
We can be pro-gun and support social security.
We can be pro-gun and care about the environment.
We can be pro-gun and support the rights of the downtrodden.
We can be pro-gun and want to provide health-care to all.

Respecting my rights (including my rights to arms) is a way of respecting me as an individual. And I think that, maybe more than anything else, our parties beliefs flow out of respecting individuals and wanting to do what is right for them.

I understand that you disagree. But please, try to at least understand where we are coming from. We see this issue as hurting the party, and it doesn't have to be this way. There is nothing about it that (to me) is at the heart of progressivism.
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  -Dems and the Gun Issue--Now What? benEzra  Jan-05-05 10:33 AM   #0 
  - You're right.  coloradodem2005   Jan-05-05 10:44 AM   #1 
  - Good summary - I have one minor problem with it  slackmaster   Jan-05-05 10:57 AM   #2 
  - Thanks, and good point. (n/t)  benEzra   Jan-05-05 11:20 AM   #3 
  - Excellent point "The basic human rights of liberty and the pursuit of  jody   Jan-05-05 11:55 AM   #6 
  - Advocating blackmail...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:09 PM   #26 
  - great post  Romulus   Jan-05-05 11:29 AM   #4 
  - Wonderful Post!  Postmanx   Jan-05-05 11:45 AM   #5 
  - Reads well.  aikoaiko   Jan-05-05 12:13 PM   #7 
  - Outstanding.  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 05:59 PM   #8 
  - You Can Dress It Up All You Want......  Paladin   Jan-05-05 06:48 PM   #9 
  - Only a fool keeps on doing the same things  Retired AF Dem   Jan-05-05 07:22 PM   #10 
  - Kerry's goose hunt  Billy Ruffian   Jan-05-05 07:55 PM   #11 
  - Amo Tax & Gun Cintrol Votes  KerryOn   Jan-18-05 05:24 PM   #32 
  - I agree to a point...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:39 PM   #33 
  - You have inadvertently made the pro-gun case.  Silverhair   Jul-10-05 05:52 PM   #70 
  - Folks just don't get..  sendero   Jul-11-05 07:55 AM   #74 
  - Gun prohibition became a pet issue only recently...  benEzra   Jan-05-05 08:04 PM   #12 
  - When did this become the "traditional core belief" of the party?  bperci108   Jan-06-05 04:47 PM   #14 
  - The Democratic Party Is Not "Anti-Gun".....  Paladin   Jan-06-05 07:20 PM   #16 
     - The exact statement from the party platform  Billy Ruffian   Jan-06-05 07:33 PM   #17 
     - I hope you're right...  bperci108   Jan-16-05 03:16 PM   #20 
     - You Want Hostility? I'll Show You Hostility  Paladin   Jan-16-05 03:45 PM   #22 
        - Hostility will get you absolutely nothing...  bperci108   Jan-17-05 08:12 AM   #23 
           - 90% Of Your Post 23......  Paladin   Jan-17-05 06:18 PM   #25 
              - Wow.  bperci108   Jan-23-05 08:49 AM   #36 
     - You are right about...  MrSandman   Jan-17-05 08:38 PM   #27 
     - Fair or not, if you're anti-semi-automatics, you're considered "anti-gun"  derby378   Jun-08-05 02:59 PM   #59 
  - Paladan please read  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:33 PM   #40 
     - Just Watch What Happens Here In The Gun Dungeon.....  Paladin   Jun-01-05 06:53 PM   #42 
        - At least thanks for reading  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 07:13 PM   #43 
        - It's Always The Democrats' Fault, Right?  Paladin   Jun-01-05 07:24 PM   #44 
           - No, not "fault"  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 10:20 PM   #45 
        - The Democratic Party  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:36 PM   #46 
        - And just a little taste of how pro-gun the Democratic Party is  Mothrog2   Jun-01-05 10:49 PM   #47 
  - I am blown away. Best post in memory in the Gungeon.  skippythwndrdog   Jan-06-05 12:19 PM   #13 
  - This is a Fantastic post.  Factoid   Jan-06-05 05:09 PM   #15 
  - Yes,  benEzra   Jan-07-05 07:33 AM   #18 
  - Dandy!  alwynsw   Jan-07-05 11:54 AM   #19 
  - this is about the best damn post on DU! nice! n/t  Cooper   Jan-16-05 03:25 PM   #21 
  - This is critical reading material.  Peak_Oil   Jan-17-05 11:24 AM   #24 
  - You have made some good poits.  KerryOn   Jan-17-05 08:41 PM   #28 
  - The thing that hurt Senator Kerry the most...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 08:10 AM   #29 
     - (hijack) re:the Kennedy Bill  Romulus   Jan-18-05 10:30 AM   #30 
        - That's what the SUMMARY said...  benEzra   Jan-18-05 11:01 AM   #31 
  - awesome, this gets my vote!  enfield collector   Jan-19-05 08:22 PM   #34 
  - Great post benEzra  turnkey   Jan-20-05 01:21 AM   #35 
  - Very well said  IronHorseman   May-22-05 08:30 AM   #37 
  - Great Post! Here's some food for thought, if you think guns  doc03   May-22-05 09:02 AM   #38 
  - Excellent Post - Thank You - N/T  SlipperySlope   Jun-01-05 03:18 PM   #39 
  - Excellent Post  Jack_DeLeon   Jun-01-05 03:36 PM   #41 
  - Agree-Excellent Post  Xela   Jun-02-05 08:16 AM   #48 
  - Always enjoy your posts. But what do we do with armor-piercing bullets?  farmbo   Jun-05-05 11:48 AM   #49 
  - Let me reply at some length...  benEzra   Jun-05-05 05:06 PM   #50 
     - Thanks...I take it that we could oppose center fire rds for handguns...  farmbo   Jun-06-05 06:28 AM   #52 
        - If you oppose center fire rounds for handguns  Billy Ruffian   Jun-06-05 07:54 AM   #53 
           - Slip of the keyboard?  benEzra   Jun-07-05 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Here is how to win on gun issues....  HardWorkingDem   Jun-06-05 02:37 AM   #51 
  - I'm a Republican...  astrawinski   Jun-07-05 11:15 AM   #54 
  - Thanks for stopping by  Wickerman   Jun-07-05 11:44 AM   #55 
  - Q: Why can't I find this on the greatest page?  SlipperySlope   Jun-07-05 05:59 PM   #57 
  - its a nearly six month old post  Wickerman   Jun-08-05 02:50 PM   #58 
  - To See Another Democrat Write So...  newswolf56   Jun-10-05 02:22 AM   #60 
  - And thank you...  Xela   Jun-16-05 02:44 PM   #61 
     - Just now noticed your response; sorry if I seemed...  newswolf56   Jun-19-05 07:13 PM   #63 
        - Re: Hentoff  Xela   Jun-19-05 08:08 PM   #64 
           - Ooops. STOOOPID mistake on my part. Should have said...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:31 AM   #66 
              - And now I just discovered it's too late...  newswolf56   Jun-25-05 02:35 AM   #67 
              - newfield, hentoff ...  iverglas   Jun-25-05 06:24 PM   #68 
  - Gee, Somebody with a clue!  JeffUAW   Jun-18-05 04:26 PM   #62 
  - A right excellent article!!!  Van23   Jun-24-05 11:00 PM   #65 
  - This should be our stance! (a comment from somebody who hates guns)  DFLer4edu   Jun-29-05 05:07 AM   #69 
  - it only applies to flintlock muskets  Swamp Fox   Jul-10-05 07:00 PM   #71 
  - That is a dangerous way of thinking.  virginia mountainman   Jul-10-05 07:07 PM   #72 
  - Since merely raising the price on some handgun magazines,  benEzra   Jul-11-05 07:09 AM   #73 
  - I'm trying to understand the fascination of gun-ownership - but it does  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 05:31 PM   #75 
  - Do we have to be fascinated  Turnagain   Apr-18-07 07:57 PM   #76 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-18-07 11:50 PM   #79 
  - Shooting is a skill  qdemn7   Apr-18-07 10:31 PM   #77 
  - I can understand that in sport.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-18-07 11:47 PM   #78 
     - You want serious answers?  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 04:25 AM   #80 
     - You are correct - I am curious ......  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:17 AM   #84 
        - Thank you  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 11:01 AM   #87 
           - You're right.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 11:35 AM   #88 
     - Approximately one third of U.S. women personally own a gun  benEzra   Apr-19-07 08:07 AM   #82 
     - Hi-  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 10:24 AM   #86 
        - More an urban vs. non-urban thing, I'd say...  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:40 PM   #89 
           - Right - I'm in the SF Bay Area and I'm sure that gun ownership increases  Bullwinkle925   Apr-19-07 04:52 PM   #91 
              - See post number 81 for an answer to that question at some length.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 06:06 AM   #93 
     - Not so sure about gender  saddlesore   Apr-19-07 10:04 AM   #83 
  - Someone once asked me that on Common Ground Common Sense  benEzra   Apr-19-07 07:31 AM   #81 
     - Thanks - it was my fault in that I did indeed gloss over it.  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 06:17 PM   #94 
        - The problem is that prohibitions can easily be circumvented.  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 06:48 PM   #95 
        - Good point -  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 09:49 PM   #97 
           - Yes I do  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 10:12 PM   #98 
              - There would have to be a change in Federal HIPPA regulations in  Bullwinkle925   Apr-20-07 10:57 PM   #99 
                 - As a matter of fact  qdemn7   Apr-20-07 11:07 PM   #100 
        - I think that for the most part, it is.  benEzra   Apr-20-07 08:31 PM   #96 
  - Excellent!!  Van23   Apr-19-07 10:22 AM   #85 
     - Never have. I'd probably need to update it a little (lots of 2004 references there)  benEzra   Apr-19-07 02:42 PM   #90 
        - You really should  qdemn7   Apr-19-07 05:40 PM   #92 

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