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Reply #57: Uh huh [View All]

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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. Uh huh
"This is blatantly hilarious. Own whatever you like, I agree. But the Second Amendment is not about ownership- it says there is no individual _right_ to bear arms of the kind, no matter what you or I propose to like."

Would you mind telling me what other Amendments to the US Constitution deal with collective rights, rather than individual rights? As far as I know, all the other ones are about rights of the individual citizen. It would seem pretty out of character of the Founding Fathers to write this one Amendment as a collective right, wouldn't you say? For example, I have never heard anyone try to argue the First Amendment is a collective right only given to state-run media, have you?

"Yes, we do. Zero. They'd find some other pressing excuse to vote for the Stupid Party. If they believe half the things you do, their schooling has hopelessly failed them to function in the modern world anyway."

Wrong. I make at least one voter, and I know of many others. Yes, I admit it: I voted for Bush in 2000. The one issue I based my decision on? Guns. I've been kicking myself ever since for this stupid act, and this year tried to make right by voting for Kerry. You have no idea how many single-issue voters out there vote Republican based on gun control, as you've made abundantly clear here.

"And up the risk of getting yourself shot sevenfold? That's in the undisputed statistics."

Would this be from the same author of the study that first stated that there was an UNDISPUTED 43X greater chance of getting shot, then revised it down to an UNDISPUTED 12X, and finally today an UNDISPUTED 7X? And the same researcher who included suicide as firearms-related homicide in his study, when gun ownership and suicide rates are very, very hard to correlate?

"The Gun Cult really began in Texas after the Civil War. The ex-Confederates were into lynchings and intimidating blacks and Indians, knew wartime guns, and were scared of federal troops being sent in to enforce the 14th and 15th Amendments they were doing all they could to suppress."

And the first gun-control laws were passed to prevent newly-freed slaves from exercising their right to own firearms. Does that mean we can also link the Gun Control Cult supporters to racist ex-Confederates like you seem to be doing to gun owners?

"This is a wonderful canard. The AWB comes out of gangbangers upping the firepower because of their bad aim- streets started getting shot up with 500 and 1,000 rounds by 17-year-olds using shitty mechanisms unworthy of the label 'gun', e.g. Tec-9s. That misapplication of technology and overkill amounts of ammunition started killing 3-5 bystanders for every gang member or drug dealer."

The AWB was meant to combat gang members firing 1000 rds a night? Well then, why did it in no way, shape or form ban fully automatic weapons? Why did it ONLY ban primarily cosmetic features like bayonet lugs and flash hiders? BTW, the Tec-9 was, and still is, perfectly legal to buy and own, even throughout the 1990's AWB. The manufacturers simply removed a few small features, like a barrel shroud, renamed them, and kept on selling them. What a smashing success the AWB was. *sarcasm*

"Farmers then, and until the Civil War, had guns that were used to kill birds and cows at short ranges and were pretty bad for use on the battlefield. War-capable weaponry was special order."

If you read up on early firearms used in the 1700's and 1800's, you'll come to learn that pretty much EVERYTHING was only capable of short-range usage. War-capable weaponry was little different in general form and function, as all muzzleloaders of the day were inaccurate beyond ~50 yds.

"The Supreme Court has not accepted individual right-to-bear-arms lawsuits since the 1930s. In the USSC decisions there are, it's clear but (intentionally) not explicit that the individual ability to bear arms is a privilege, Constitutionally."

The Supreme Court case you cite, in it's statements, mentioned that US citizens don't have a constitutional right to NON-MILITARY firearms as it's prevailing reason to rule against the defendent. The case was made by the prosecution that the owner of the sawed-off shotgun had no right to it because it had no military applications, not that he didn't have an individual right to own firearms. The ironic thing is that sawed-off shotguns were used to great effect in trench warfare of WWI, and at least one of the justices fought in WWI.
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  -Democrats: Give up on gun control Peak_Oil  Nov-12-04 02:42 AM   #0 
  - no way  Woody Wood   Nov-12-04 02:44 AM   #1 
  - You're one of those so-called "Democrats" whom has...  T Town Jake   Nov-12-04 04:09 AM   #30 
  - damn, and here I thought  iverglas   Nov-12-04 12:26 PM   #134 
     - Magic hats.  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 04:43 PM   #145 
  - so, you believe in authoritarianism?  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 04:45 PM   #146 
     - Gun control is an evil cancer supported by those...  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 04:47 PM   #148 
  - Um...... No.  UdoKier   Nov-12-04 02:45 AM   #2 
  - yes  Woody Wood   Nov-12-04 02:46 AM   #3 
  - How about these reasons  sendero   Nov-12-04 03:39 AM   #22 
  - re: 1) "gun control" costs us many, many votes  YankeeFan   Nov-12-04 05:55 AM   #48 
  - More nonsense from the same crowd...  T Town Jake   Nov-12-04 04:18 AM   #35 
  - nonsense  Cheswick   Nov-12-04 09:47 AM   #107 
     - The Assault Weapons was the stupidest gun control legislation ever  aikoaiko   Nov-12-04 10:05 AM   #114 
        - You want anyone to be able to buy an Uzi? a Howitzer? A Bazooka?  UdoKier   Nov-12-04 08:54 PM   #151 
           - bullshit, you are ignorant on the issue.  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 10:19 PM   #156 
           - You said...  LynnMassGuy   Nov-12-04 10:23 PM   #159 
              - The poster advocated the right to buy ANY weapon.  UdoKier   Nov-12-04 10:32 PM   #162 
                 - I like to collect military style "assault" weapons... are you saying  jtb33   Nov-15-04 10:58 AM   #197 
  - He advocates a gain in freedom.  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 10:10 PM   #155 
  - this issue is an albatross around our necks  Doomsayer13   Nov-12-04 02:47 AM   #4 
  - Look at just exactly what the AWB is about.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 02:52 AM   #9 
  - I want a full auto short barreled shotgun that I can carry for personal  RapidCreek   Nov-12-04 04:41 AM   #41 
  - Full-Auto ... Shotgun?  REP   Nov-12-04 05:22 AM   #46 
  - Disagree  TX-RAT   Nov-12-04 09:54 AM   #111 
  - Golly someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about!  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 05:57 AM   #170 
  - Look back at what REP said...  Spiffarino   Nov-13-04 03:52 PM   #179 
     - It's not unlikely that it would go through two  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 08:39 PM   #182 
  - Kinda over the top eh?  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 05:54 AM   #169 
  - SPAAS-12 and USAS-12  JeebusB   Nov-15-04 02:37 PM   #204 
  - The "AW" ban had nothing to do with short barrels or automatic fire  slackmaster   Nov-12-04 09:47 AM   #106 
  - What the hell does the AW ban have to do with "giving up on gun control"?  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 06:11 AM   #171 
  - Full Auto shotgun (hahahahaha)  aikoaiko   Nov-12-04 10:12 AM   #119 
  - Is that right? Funny....I had occasion to fire two different models of  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 05:48 AM   #168 
     - in other words, Gotcha!  NorthernSpy   Nov-13-04 12:30 PM   #177 
     - Well actually quite a few people know about them  RapidCreek   Nov-14-04 04:53 AM   #186 
        - like I said: ya GOT me, already!  NorthernSpy   Nov-14-04 03:08 PM   #188 
           - Actually that was never my intent.  RapidCreek   Nov-14-04 07:35 PM   #190 
     - oh man that's sweet, I sure need one of those. that's probably about the  enfield collector   Nov-13-04 05:11 PM   #181 
  - ummm...  puttothesword   Nov-12-04 11:08 AM   #132 
  - What the hell do you think the National Firearms act of 1934 is?  RapidCreek   Nov-13-04 06:14 AM   #172 
  - what the hell are you talking about?  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 10:21 PM   #157 
  - None of us peasants get to have full auto anything  LynnMassGuy   Nov-12-04 10:28 PM   #161 
  - You are absolutely correct  elderly man   Nov-12-04 08:09 AM   #71 
     - Welcome to DU - Great post  slackmaster   Nov-12-04 09:47 AM   #109 
  - Exactly right. (n/t)  T Town Jake   Nov-12-04 04:05 AM   #28 
  - Why?  LynnMassGuy   Nov-12-04 10:24 PM   #160 
  - The NRA is for responsible gun ownership?  aquart   Nov-12-04 02:47 AM   #5 
  - Sure.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:05 AM   #16 
  - How about responsible CAR ownership?  Firerin   Nov-12-04 04:13 AM   #32 
  - Monopoly on force?  creeksneakers2   Nov-12-04 06:01 AM   #49 
  - My point EXACTLY!  Firerin   Nov-12-04 04:26 PM   #144 
     - I protect myself  creeksneakers2   Nov-12-04 05:36 PM   #150 
        - Hmmm...  jtb33   Nov-15-04 02:36 PM   #203 
  - The Unorganized Militia  Liberty2001   Nov-12-04 07:37 AM   #67 
  - "Why aren't you hot to ban cars and booze?"  iverglas   Nov-15-04 07:56 AM   #194 
  - In Switzerland every home has a GENUINE MILITARY assault rifle.  Silverhair   Nov-12-04 06:22 AM   #54 
  - So wrong I'm not sure where to start...  Jeff in Cincinnati   Nov-12-04 09:16 AM   #91 
     - Incorrect.  Factoid   Nov-12-04 11:49 PM   #165 
  - Responsible Assault Weapon Onwership is self-evident.  aikoaiko   Nov-12-04 10:17 AM   #121 
  - I'm not trying to take anyone's gun away ...  PittLib   Nov-12-04 02:49 AM   #6 
  - Excellent question.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:29 AM   #20 
     - All I know about guns is ...  PittLib   Nov-12-04 03:40 AM   #23 
        - A stray bullet wouldn't be stopped because of the AWB...  formernaderite   Nov-12-04 08:44 AM   #78 
        - do you even know what an assault weapon is?  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 10:23 PM   #158 
  - gang-bangers...  laheina   Nov-12-04 02:50 AM   #7 
  - LA is hicksville?  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 02:59 AM   #12 
  - Gangbangers most certainly do shoot skeet.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 09:51 PM   #153 
  - Hurm  w13rd0   Nov-12-04 02:52 AM   #8 
  - Ignoramus.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:00 AM   #13 
  - Name calling doesn't get you anywhere...  w13rd0   Nov-12-04 03:37 AM   #21 
     - This is the one single response to my comments.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:56 AM   #26 
        - Wow  w13rd0   Nov-12-04 06:58 AM   #62 
        - You hit the nail on the head  elderly man   Nov-12-04 08:46 AM   #79 
           - That's an incorrect understanding of what was covered in the AWB  Billy Ruffian   Nov-15-04 01:47 PM   #202 
        - You are absolutely correct  elderly man   Nov-12-04 08:26 AM   #74 
        - WE live in fear?  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 09:50 AM   #110 
           - I remember this story ...  Liberty2001   Nov-12-04 12:59 PM   #137 
              - "What was the lesson learned?"  iverglas   Nov-15-04 02:38 AM   #192 
  - I shoot skeet with a submachinegun.  DoNotRefill   Nov-13-04 09:33 PM   #184 
  - The AWB seems to me to be as misleading as the PATRIOT act  killbotfactory   Nov-12-04 02:56 AM   #10 
  - while you might win a few votes in TN and MT  mitchtv   Nov-12-04 03:01 AM   #15 
  - Inflict what?  killbotfactory   Nov-12-04 03:10 AM   #18 
  - inflict what on LA and NYC?  aikoaiko   Nov-12-04 10:24 AM   #122 
  - From a completely pragmatic point of view,  JeebusB   Nov-15-04 03:36 PM   #205 
  - Yes indeed.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:07 AM   #17 
  - Uh, some of us don't live behind a blade of grass.  Harvey Korman   Nov-12-04 02:58 AM   #11 
  - NYC benefitted from a good mayor  LibLover   Nov-12-04 04:43 AM   #42 
  - Highly doubtful.  Harvey Korman   Nov-12-04 04:46 PM   #147 
  - The "benefits" of gun control...  Firerin   Nov-12-04 04:48 AM   #44 
  - that is hilarious.  FatSlob   Nov-12-04 04:48 PM   #149 
  - Not sure why I'm bothering, but . . .  MrModerate   Nov-12-04 03:01 AM   #14 
  - I'm hardly a troll or a provocateur but...  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:14 AM   #19 
  - the bottom line is  qazplm   Nov-12-04 03:53 AM   #25 
  - Excellent question, and in intelligent one.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 04:14 AM   #34 
  - yes! yes!  iverglas   Nov-12-04 12:32 PM   #135 
  - You're Constitutional Law is wrong.  Liberty2001   Nov-12-04 01:10 PM   #138 
  - I agree  elderly man   Nov-12-04 08:58 AM   #83 
  - You should read more...  T Town Jake   Nov-12-04 04:34 AM   #38 
  - No one says you have to have one in your house  JeebusB   Nov-15-04 03:41 PM   #206 
  - It never ceases to amaze me...  sendero   Nov-12-04 03:51 AM   #24 
  - My man.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 03:58 AM   #27 
  - "It never ceases to amaze me..."  donheld   Nov-12-04 04:06 AM   #29 
  - I agree entirely. (n/t)  T Town Jake   Nov-12-04 04:36 AM   #39 
  - Ditto  elderly man   Nov-12-04 09:06 AM   #88 
  - I don't own guns  Magnulus   Nov-12-04 04:12 AM   #31 
  - Hundred dollar handguns at Wal-Mart?!?  Firerin   Nov-12-04 04:24 AM   #36 
  - "I don't own Guns" Well, that's pretty obvious.  BiggJawn   Nov-12-04 06:30 AM   #55 
  - Street criminals DO NOT like "Saturday Night Specials".  Silverhair   Nov-12-04 06:42 AM   #59 
  - We Already Caved In On This One  AndyTiedye   Nov-12-04 04:13 AM   #33 
  - NRA is not part and parcel of the Republican Party  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:02 AM   #85 
  - Howard Dean  elderly man   Nov-12-04 09:16 AM   #92 
  - Exactly right. We did cave. No one noticed because  SmokingJacket   Nov-12-04 09:25 AM   #95 
     - Democrat candidates did not on cave gun control.  aikoaiko   Nov-12-04 10:31 AM   #125 
  - I'm considering getting a gun--  eridani   Nov-12-04 04:32 AM   #37 
  - Sick and tired  Abelman   Nov-12-04 04:40 AM   #40 
  - Re "Sick and Tired"  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:04 AM   #87 
     - Link?  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 10:06 AM   #116 
  - That's pretty funny, P_O!  Lexingtonian   Nov-12-04 04:44 AM   #43 
  - Uh huh  NickB79   Nov-12-04 06:39 AM   #57 
  - yup  Lexingtonian   Nov-12-04 10:51 PM   #164 
  - WRONG!!! Welost a voter due to this ONE issue alone in this last election  Mr_Spock   Nov-12-04 06:40 AM   #58 
  - How often do gangbangers go out on the shooting range?  cornermouse   Nov-12-04 05:01 AM   #45 
  - It's a losing issue......  solinvictus   Nov-12-04 05:49 AM   #47 
  - Oh, come on.  GaYellowDawg   Nov-12-04 06:09 AM   #50 
  - Gun Control wasn't a blip on the political radar this time...  Jeff in Cincinnati   Nov-12-04 06:14 AM   #51 
  - Actually, the NRA has at times supported Democratic candidates.  Silverhair   Nov-12-04 06:58 AM   #63 
  - Horse Crap  Jeff in Cincinnati   Nov-12-04 07:53 AM   #69 
     - all the more reason to take away little Grover's meal ticket...  NorthernSpy   Nov-12-04 10:05 PM   #154 
  - RE: NRA and Republican Party  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:09 AM   #89 
     - Name one...  Jeff in Cincinnati   Nov-12-04 09:27 AM   #97 
        - Name One? That is very easy  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:42 AM   #103 
           - Nope  Jeff in Cincinnati   Nov-12-04 09:47 AM   #108 
           - Did someone mention the Pagan Preacher?  PaganPreacher   Nov-12-04 11:43 AM   #133 
              - oh dear oh dear oh dear  iverglas   Nov-15-04 12:44 PM   #200 
  - One of us is in the wrong party...  Q   Nov-12-04 06:17 AM   #52 
  - Some of us are civil libertarians, and support the entire Bill of Rights!  eallen   Nov-12-04 08:51 AM   #81 
  - RE: taking away guns  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:25 AM   #96 
  - Tell you what friend, I'll make this deal with you  MadHound   Nov-12-04 06:18 AM   #53 
  - As the 1990's showed us, gun control is not the way to reduce crime  NickB79   Nov-12-04 06:48 AM   #60 
  - I see you aren't willing to take me up on my offer  MadHound   Nov-12-04 08:50 AM   #80 
     - Where's that neighborhood again?  alwynsw   Nov-12-04 11:03 AM   #131 
        - Get a clue yourself friend  MadHound   Nov-12-04 12:52 PM   #136 
  - If my former father-in-law were still alive ...  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 10:30 AM   #124 
  - You got it, buddy. I'll take it.  Peak_Oil   Nov-12-04 09:42 PM   #152 
  - I agree - this issue unnecessarily alienates a lot of people  Mr_Spock   Nov-12-04 06:36 AM   #56 
  - Or, we could ditch choice or civic freedoms for homosexuals  BlueEyedSon   Nov-12-04 06:49 AM   #61 
  - The 2nd amendment is an individual right  Billy Ruffian   Nov-12-04 09:02 AM   #86 
  - Yeah, sorry but...  Sleepysage   Nov-12-04 07:25 AM   #64 
  - Good luck....  sendero   Nov-12-04 08:22 AM   #73 
  - I say that to refute the strict constructionist view...  Sleepysage   Nov-12-04 08:27 AM   #75 
     - I don't disagree..  sendero   Nov-12-04 08:40 AM   #77 
        - Then we'll have to disagree.  Sleepysage   Nov-12-04 10:02 AM   #113 
  - RE: Militia and Standing army  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 09:31 AM   #98 
     - Actually  Sleepysage   Nov-12-04 10:07 AM   #117 
        - Standing Armies and Militia  cattleman22   Nov-12-04 10:25 AM   #123 
        - If there was to be no permanent military....  DoNotRefill   Nov-13-04 09:37 PM   #185 
  - we need more guns  Sven77   Nov-12-04 07:32 AM   #65 
  - I agree, I never understood this about the Democrats either. nt  Catfight   Nov-12-04 07:33 AM   #66 
  - I agree 100%  agincourt   Nov-12-04 07:40 AM   #68 
  - Show us the figures, please!  Bridget Burke   Nov-12-04 08:07 AM   #70 
  - 2nd amendment interpretation should be as expansive as the 1st.  robcon   Nov-12-04 08:17 AM   #72 
  - I'd like to know why Democrats are asked to compromise on every issue...  Q   Nov-12-04 08:38 AM   #76 
  - I just never  flobee1kenobi   Nov-12-04 09:12 AM   #90 
  - racism...  Jack_DeLeon   Nov-12-04 03:21 PM   #142 
  - Radical fundies....  solinvictus   Nov-13-04 01:05 AM   #167 
  - Proably because we are losing elections like crazy  Fescue4u   Nov-12-04 10:05 AM   #115 
  - I'll think about it. NO.  spanone   Nov-12-04 08:53 AM   #82 
  - I'm still on the gun control fence. Here's why:  EV1Ltimm   Nov-12-04 08:58 AM   #84 
  - If the party goes that way, fine. I'll still vote Democratic, but  SmokingJacket   Nov-12-04 09:19 AM   #93 
  - That's the problem with personal anecdotes.  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 10:52 AM   #129 
  - You don't know the text of the Second Amendment.  CBHagman   Nov-12-04 09:20 AM   #94 
  - The Dems should just say it's NOT a federal issue-let the states deal  geek tragedy   Nov-12-04 09:34 AM   #99 
  - agreed  WorstPresidentEver   Nov-12-04 09:36 AM   #100 
  - BTW, how does one go about getting a gun permit, training..  Glenda   Nov-12-04 09:38 AM   #101 
  - Depends on the state.  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 10:41 AM   #127 
  - I have an even better idea.  lizzy   Nov-12-04 09:38 AM   #102 
  - It's about time  elderly man   Nov-12-04 09:43 AM   #104 
  - interesting rant, i used to oppose guns  m_welby   Nov-12-04 09:46 AM   #105 
  - that will fix it  iverglas   Nov-15-04 11:51 AM   #199 
  - I know of numerous  Iver Johnson   Nov-12-04 09:57 AM   #112 
  - and as i tell all the men and boys in my family  seabeyond   Nov-12-04 10:08 AM   #118 
  - Take a page out the playbook of the militias  StopThePendulum   Nov-12-04 10:15 AM   #120 
  - I would venture to say that you live in a rural area  Politicub   Nov-12-04 10:36 AM   #126 
  - Give that man a prize!  ieoeja   Nov-12-04 11:02 AM   #130 
  - How so?  Jack_DeLeon   Nov-12-04 03:25 PM   #143 
  - Living in most cities suck because its difficult to legally own and carry  aikoaiko   Nov-13-04 10:16 AM   #175 
  - I agree with the poster  OnionPatch   Nov-12-04 10:51 AM   #128 
  - I read very  Buster43   Nov-12-04 01:22 PM   #139 
  - AMEN, BROTHER!!!  Van23   Nov-12-04 01:31 PM   #140 
  - Gun Control is dying...  Jack_DeLeon   Nov-12-04 03:14 PM   #141 
  - Personal Responsibility  El Oso   Nov-12-04 10:33 PM   #163 
     - Bienvenida padre oso  laheina   Nov-12-04 11:56 PM   #166 
     - All guns for all noncriminal, noncrazy adult citizens.  aikoaiko   Nov-13-04 08:19 AM   #173 
        - Ever Have A Family Member Gunned Down?  BearClaws   Nov-13-04 09:53 AM   #174 
           - Sorry to hear about your loss...  aikoaiko   Nov-13-04 10:21 AM   #176 
     - please, everyone, stop this Michael Moore/Canada business  iverglas   Nov-14-04 10:45 PM   #191 
        - Good point about Michael Moore, but remember  aikoaiko   Nov-15-04 01:39 PM   #201 
  - Absolutely! - Support your RKBA  UNIXnutt   Nov-13-04 12:51 PM   #178 
  - I don't think it's necessary to ask people to give up beliefs  Spiffarino   Nov-13-04 03:57 PM   #180 
  - Uh... no.  BTTB   Nov-13-04 08:55 PM   #183 
  - Gun owners need to get serious about keeping guns out of the hands  Jade Fox   Nov-14-04 01:16 PM   #187 
  - Serious gun owners....  aikoaiko   Nov-14-04 05:28 PM   #189 
  - has anybody asked yet?  iverglas   Nov-15-04 04:20 AM   #193 
     - I'm in the NRA  Billy Ruffian   Nov-15-04 07:57 AM   #195 
        - that's all ever so nice  iverglas   Nov-15-04 08:14 AM   #196 
           - Apologies for violating protocol  Billy Ruffian   Nov-15-04 11:24 AM   #198 

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