Reply #28: You need to learn more about firearms before you start a firearms group

[LinuxUser]

"Cop killer rounds"? That's an urban legend. When you base your politics on urban legends, you end up with some foolish laws.

There have been a few different kinds of rounds which have been called "cop killers" at various times. I'll address them one by one.

First, Winchester's Black Talons were called "cop killers" and were promptly removed from the market. Why were they "cop killers"? Simply because of the name. The name was just too nasty. They now sell very similar bullets called SXT or something, which do the same thing. Basically, there is a whole category of high-performance hollowpoints, including SXTs, Remington Golden Sabers, and a whole bunch of others, and they all do the same thing: they expand reliably and effectively. These aren't cop-killers; they're just high-quality handgun ammo. Handguns are all underpowered and ineffective which is why such ammo exists. High-performance hollowpoints have been around for about 20 years now, and I've never heard any evidence that these are more or less widely used for "killing cops" than anything else. Oh, by the way, the important point is that these days almost all "street cops" are wearing body armor, and body armor stops all these kinds of bullets with almost 100% effectiveness. Body armor + Black Talon = cop has a nasty bruise and takes a few days off work.

Second in the "cop killer" category were "teflon tipped bullets". These were sold in very very small numbers to law enforcement only. The teflon tip helps it go through car windshields. These have never been available to civilians, and there has never been an incident of one of these bullets killing a cop. These are rare things; I don't know if they still even make them. Btw, when I say "teflon tip" here, I mean that there is a small piece of solid Teflon (CF2 polymer) on the tip of the bullet itself. Taking a regular bullet, and spraying it with a can of "teflon spray" just gives you a bullet that's very slippery and will not in any way enhance its armor penetration or anything else. Any gangsta who thinks he's getting an edge by spraying "teflon spray" on his bullets is welcome to do so; it won't do him any good.

Third, "armor penetrating handgun bullets". These are distinct from "armor penetrating rifle bullets"; ALL rifle bullets go through soft armor of the type that cops normally wear (see below). Yes, it is possible to make handgun bullets which are "armor penetrating". These are made of materials such as tungsten or depleted uranium. If you get a 9mm bullet made out of DU or tungsten, it will definitely go through body armor. None of these bullets have ever been available to civilians. I've never heard of criminals using such things. The technology exists, but it's not available on the market. Probably there are some special forces military units that have them, but no civilians have access. If some gangsta really really wants a handgun round that will go through armor, his best bit is to buy a lathe and some tungsten rod and learn how to machine tungsten (good luck, it's incredibly difficult). In short: yes, in theory, there could be "cop killer" bullets but in reality, it's a fantasy.

Any other nominations for "cop killers"? I would be happy to get the fact for you. Btw, ALL rifle ammo goes through ALL soft body armor. Old hunting rifles, new M16s, whatever, ALL of it will go through soft body armor every single time. There is no soft body armor that can stop any rifle rounds with any degree of certainty. If you want to ban bullets that go through armor, ban rifles, all of them, including 100 year old hunting rifles, etc. Arrows also go through body armor I believe so you would have to ban bows and arrows, too. Conversely, modern soft body armor is extremely effective at stopping handgun rounds. You basically can't buy handguns or handgun ammo that could go through a vest. These vests have saved a lot of cops and are primarily resonsible for the decrease in on-the-job deaths for cops over the past twenty years.

So please... get some gun facts from somewhere other than Hollywood before you go off and start your progressive gun organization. I would join... if it's well-informed and can distinguish Hollywood guns from real guns.