petronius
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Tue Dec-06-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
| 72. Rules pertaining to the specific purpose of the university are fine, although I think |
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you're being to blurry and casual with that phrase "forfeit many rights." Actually asking a person to give up a right should require a significant justification and substantial scrutiny.
But that to the side, there's no university-specific reason to bar concealed carry: a firearm that nobody sees creates no disruption, does not impair the educational process, and does nothing to impair the safety and security of the campus. The only (invalid) arguments that I've seen in favor of these restrictions rest on the nebulous assumption that universities - like churches - are 'different,' and/or on stereotypes of college students as irrational, mercurial, drug-addled alcoholics.
I'm in favor of shall-issue CCW (with training requirements) for adults in general. Since this practice creates no appreciable problem outside the university, there's no reason to think that it will mysteriously become problematic on campus...
|
| -Guns on campus is a maniacal idea (NH) |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 09:54 AM |
#0 |
 -
Guns and booze have ALWAYS made a great combination. |
HopeHoops |
Dec-04-11 10:00 AM |
#1 |
| -
That's my Loonislature! |
Warren Stupidity |
Dec-04-11 10:27 AM |
#2 |
| -
Somebody might |
Old Codger |
Dec-04-11 11:04 AM |
#3 |
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Soooooo... all you nay-sayers can cite to evidence that this has been detrimental.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 11:08 AM |
#4 |
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Do you have any evidence it has been beneficial to anyone but those who like to carry guns? |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 12:17 PM |
#12 |
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I don't really need to.... as, if it does not harm, it's a moot issue. |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 12:28 PM |
#16 |
| -
I asked that question nearly a year ago, and have yet to get *any* examples: |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-04-11 03:55 PM |
#23 |
| -
That is not how all the students feel |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 06:43 PM |
#28 |
| -
One problem |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 08:05 PM |
#34 |
| -
Which of those named had concealed carry permits? |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-05-11 01:11 PM |
#49 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-04-11 08:06 PM |
#35 |
| -
Can you prove that the life you lived has been beneficial to anyone |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 06:46 PM |
#29 |
| -
Had 734 positives when I searched under, "Is Hoyt XXXXX worth a shit?" |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 08:12 PM |
#37 |
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As long as it isn't harmful, who cares? n/t |
Atypical Liberal |
Dec-05-11 01:17 PM |
#51 |
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You have any evidence it has to be? |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 02:10 PM |
#52 |
| -
I see no reason why a properly trained permit holder shouldn't be able to carry on campus |
petronius |
Dec-04-11 11:12 AM |
#5 |
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The antis can not even state what "properly trained " is to them. n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 06:48 PM |
#30 |
| -
Please explain this statement... |
beevul |
Dec-04-11 11:12 AM |
#6 |
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By not making it required. Everyone - criminal or not deserves to pack heat - Live Free or... |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 12:08 PM |
#11 |
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To which background check does that statement refer? N/T |
beevul |
Dec-04-11 12:42 PM |
#17 |
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To carry a GOP/NRA/ALEC/Koch Bros. concealed gun in NH |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 12:48 PM |
#19 |
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I've never seen that brand |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 01:40 AM |
#40 |
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Guns on Campus are a good thing |
nightwhisper |
Dec-04-11 11:37 AM |
#7 |
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thanks - I couldn't have explained better why this is lunacy. |
Warren Stupidity |
Dec-04-11 11:55 AM |
#8 |
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thanks - You couldn't have fallen more flat-faced for a one-time poster. nt |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:07 PM |
#10 |
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Gun Hero!!!!111 We who are about to die salute you! |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 12:06 PM |
#9 |
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Gun hero? Please define or is this just another one of your buzz words. |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 01:41 AM |
#41 |
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So how did you know this person was a "druink driver" before you started blazing away heroically |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 12:17 PM |
#13 |
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And that is a perfect example of why guns in public are crazy. |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 12:20 PM |
#14 |
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Welcome to DU. n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 12:21 PM |
#15 |
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You found a kindred spirit. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 06:50 PM |
#32 |
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Are you serious? You shot a guy driving a car? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 06:48 PM |
#31 |
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And then you lifted the car up over your head with your bare hands and tossed it away! |
chrisa |
Dec-05-11 09:45 AM |
#47 |
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Did we learn nothing from the Virginia Tech tragedy? |
Kurmudgeon |
Dec-04-11 12:46 PM |
#18 |
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Yes, we learned that criminals and the insane ignore gun bans - no matter how well intentioned |
DonP |
Dec-04-11 01:02 PM |
#20 |
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^ This. |
Union Scribe |
Dec-04-11 05:50 PM |
#25 |
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VT was a gun free zone |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 05:55 PM |
#26 |
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YUP |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 01:43 AM |
#42 |
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No, apparently you didn't. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-05-11 08:29 AM |
#44 |
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I learned an excesss of guns, sold by the uncaring vender of them caused the tragedy. |
Kurmudgeon |
Dec-05-11 05:38 PM |
#56 |
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Nothing to spin |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 05:43 PM |
#57 |
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It's like blaming child porn and identity theft on the easy availability of computers. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-05-11 05:50 PM |
#61 |
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in order to have this fuel, |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 05:44 PM |
#58 |
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Did Cho's guns tell him "Go shoot up VT"? Guns are inanimate objects, not the Ring of Sauron. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-05-11 05:46 PM |
#59 |
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The vendor had nothing to do with it, and followed the law precisely. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-05-11 05:48 PM |
#60 |
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The college administrators seem to not know their student demographics. |
ManiacJoe |
Dec-04-11 01:23 PM |
#21 |
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Here's the bigger problem.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 02:04 PM |
#22 |
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An American university... |
Francis Marion |
Dec-04-11 04:46 PM |
#24 |
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You're right - it's a place of learning |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 06:56 PM |
#33 |
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don't know much about the UCMJ do you? |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 08:10 PM |
#36 |
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I know Miranda is not in the BOR |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 01:06 AM |
#39 |
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I have not heard anyone suggest arming students and teachers - rather, people advocate |
petronius |
Dec-05-11 03:02 AM |
#43 |
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Actually, Miranda is explaining the 5th, so yeah |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 09:12 AM |
#46 |
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21+ year olds aren't 'kids'. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-05-11 08:30 AM |
#45 |
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Anyone under 50 is a kid to me. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 03:55 PM |
#53 |
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I understand what you're saying... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:29 PM |
#55 |
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And carrying a gun around on the off chance one might need it for SD makes no sense to me |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 07:46 PM |
#63 |
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Then don't do it. However, what makes sense for you to do in your own personal |
petronius |
Dec-05-11 09:58 PM |
#64 |
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I think you're wrong. People go to college for a specific purpose - to study |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 09:45 PM |
#68 |
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drinking in class? |
gejohnston |
Dec-06-11 09:53 PM |
#70 |
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I meant alcohol, but I think you knew that. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 10:40 PM |
#73 |
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Actually |
gejohnston |
Dec-06-11 10:55 PM |
#74 |
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You know, I might be OK with that. Depends on screening process. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 12:03 AM |
#78 |
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campus police are often |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 12:12 AM |
#81 |
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It's not arbitrary power. It's bestowed power having been earned and |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 03:39 AM |
#83 |
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Ummm.... you have very... odd... ideas.... about Civil Rights. n/t |
PavePusher |
Dec-07-11 11:51 AM |
#85 |
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Really? What is odd about them? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 04:20 PM |
#91 |
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I am not able to think of a single... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-07-11 04:29 PM |
#92 |
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Really? Why does that not surprise me? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 07:13 PM |
#97 |
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That's the problem. |
PavePusher |
Dec-07-11 09:34 PM |
#109 |
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Indeed |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 09:51 PM |
#112 |
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Those are not everyday situations |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-08-11 08:29 AM |
#116 |
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They are every day to many people. Maybe not to you. You apparently live in a bubble. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-09-11 02:04 PM |
#134 |
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I am still quite capable... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-09-11 04:06 PM |
#138 |
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We all feel more secure knowing that you "still carry other forms of arms" on airplanes. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-09-11 07:14 PM |
#142 |
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I have weapons on aircraft too. You probably do as well. |
PavePusher |
Dec-10-11 04:39 PM |
#152 |
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What insinuations? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 09:02 PM |
#157 |
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see definition one |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 04:30 PM |
#93 |
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I thought we were talking about the power of college administrators. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 06:04 PM |
#95 |
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1887-1995? Damn, I thought *I* took a long time to graduate. |
Common Sense Party |
Dec-07-11 05:57 PM |
#94 |
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Rules pertaining to the specific purpose of the university are fine, although I think |
petronius |
Dec-06-11 10:27 PM |
#72 |
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I understand your position. It's not complicated. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 11:13 PM |
#75 |
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As a church/state separation near absolutist, |
gejohnston |
Dec-06-11 11:19 PM |
#76 |
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Agreed |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 12:05 AM |
#79 |
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The whole world is full of "all kinds of folk in all kinds of moods" and students live in the world |
petronius |
Dec-06-11 11:48 PM |
#77 |
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This isn't about right or wrong, we have different opinions |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 12:10 AM |
#80 |
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"A school is not a democracy" said the fellow who, a mere five posts ago, |
petronius |
Dec-07-11 12:34 AM |
#82 |
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College is nowhere near the only stressful or even most stressful point in most people's life. |
PavePusher |
Dec-07-11 11:55 AM |
#86 |
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Maybe you didn't undergo the pressure that students endure today. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 07:28 PM |
#98 |
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Pressure? I've been in the military over 20 years. I know what pressure is. |
PavePusher |
Dec-07-11 09:33 PM |
#108 |
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You've been in the military for over 20 years? You haven't had enough of guns yet? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 10:05 PM |
#114 |
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If you think we carry guns at work, it demonstrates your ignorance of the military. |
PavePusher |
Dec-08-11 08:03 AM |
#115 |
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I was referring to friends and family who did tours of combat, but you knew that. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 01:59 PM |
#120 |
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Private vs public |
beevul |
Dec-07-11 08:05 PM |
#102 |
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Exactly what rights do they forfeit? |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-07-11 12:24 PM |
#87 |
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By abiding to campus rules. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 07:34 PM |
#99 |
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" 1A rights are usually restricted to public areas." Sadly, you are not alone in that attitude: |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-07-11 07:59 PM |
#100 |
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Ideas are fine in the classroom. Guns have no place. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 08:19 PM |
#103 |
| -
What problems have legally carried guns caused to that group known as... |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-07-11 08:25 PM |
#105 |
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You can use that reason to excuse all individual injustice. |
PavePusher |
Dec-07-11 09:39 PM |
#110 |
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You have an odd perspective for someone in the military |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 01:37 PM |
#117 |
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Your feelings aside, what harm does it cause? There are several dozen campuses where it is legal. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-08-11 03:17 PM |
#123 |
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How do you define harm? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 04:23 PM |
#126 |
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Define it yourself. Call it "moral harm", if you wish. But be specific. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-08-11 10:43 PM |
#132 |
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I suggest you read this if you want some perspective on the subject. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-09-11 02:20 PM |
#136 |
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I think he was |
gejohnston |
Dec-09-11 02:54 PM |
#137 |
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"Students should not be wandering alone at night." |
PavePusher |
Dec-09-11 06:30 PM |
#140 |
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Anyone carrying a gun is potentially contributing to the problem |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 08:52 PM |
#155 |
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Anyone carrying a penis is potentially contributing to the problem |
oneshooter |
Dec-10-11 09:05 PM |
#159 |
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how many of those stolen guns |
gejohnston |
Dec-10-11 09:05 PM |
#160 |
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I have always advocated disarming the police. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 09:23 PM |
#161 |
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It elided the fact that the student fired back after being shot first by an attempted robber... |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-09-11 09:26 PM |
#144 |
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Not relevant. I'm very familiar with this incident. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 08:59 PM |
#156 |
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You're not the first to blame the victim and defer to the better nature of predators. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-13-11 09:00 PM |
#162 |
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Why on earth do you think I value them so greatly, and not want to see them restricted.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-09-11 06:28 PM |
#139 |
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We all value our rights. Few people want them restricted. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-09-11 08:46 PM |
#143 |
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It seems I'm not the one wishing here. If you value Rights so poorly, we're done here. n/t |
PavePusher |
Dec-09-11 11:17 PM |
#146 |
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Valuing something does not necessitate abusing it or being obsessed with it. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 03:33 PM |
#150 |
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You may stop the insinuations, accusations and stereotyping at any time. n/t |
PavePusher |
Dec-10-11 04:37 PM |
#151 |
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Please explain what you mean. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-10-11 09:04 PM |
#158 |
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But dangerous 'things' are mandatory in the classroom. |
Francis Marion |
Jan-07-12 11:27 AM |
#163 |
| -
What happened to academic freedom? |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 07:59 PM |
#101 |
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What does academic freedom have to do with it? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 08:22 PM |
#104 |
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You said students lose their 1A |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 09:11 PM |
#107 |
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Don't be absurd. I never said anyone loses their rights. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 01:44 PM |
#118 |
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In the classroom, |
gejohnston |
Dec-08-11 02:31 PM |
#121 |
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Wrong on all counts. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 04:26 PM |
#127 |
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sure about that? |
gejohnston |
Dec-08-11 11:13 PM |
#133 |
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Fine. That's your choice. Nobody is telling you to carry one. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 08:42 AM |
#67 |
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I'm not telling you not to carry. I'm asking you to reconsider. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 09:46 PM |
#69 |
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I have reconsidered |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-07-11 09:44 AM |
#84 |
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And contributing to the problem is yet another thing. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 04:17 PM |
#89 |
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I agree - it certainly is. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-07-11 04:19 PM |
#90 |
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Supporting tha ongoing proliferation of handguns contributes to the problem |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 06:08 PM |
#96 |
| -
What "problem"? The violent crime rate is *down*, even as the number of guns increase. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-07-11 08:28 PM |
#106 |
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What problem? Lemme think. Hmm.... |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 09:50 PM |
#111 |
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different populations |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 10:05 PM |
#113 |
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"gangsters killing other gangsters fighting over who gets to fill someone's bong bowl" |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 01:49 PM |
#119 |
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pot heads, coke heads of all ages |
gejohnston |
Dec-08-11 02:34 PM |
#122 |
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I give up. You obviously live in a capsule. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-08-11 04:33 PM |
#128 |
| -
suicides are different |
gejohnston |
Dec-08-11 10:33 PM |
#129 |
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For the sake of your argument, you should *hope* that suicides don't count. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-08-11 10:35 PM |
#130 |
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Elegant linguistic trickery, nothing more. |
beevul |
Dec-10-11 05:08 PM |
#153 |
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The rate of those is declining as well, so while still a problem, it's a diminished one. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-08-11 10:39 PM |
#131 |
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"so while still a problem" - Eureka! |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-09-11 02:08 PM |
#135 |
| -
Yes. Better education, more gun safety classes, and an end to the pointless War on (some) Drugs. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-09-11 09:31 PM |
#145 |
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We do a lot of learning in the military, frequently while heavily armed. |
PavePusher |
Dec-05-11 12:43 PM |
#48 |
| -
I'm not knocking the military. On the contrary. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 03:59 PM |
#54 |
| -
LOL. |
beevul |
Dec-05-11 06:10 PM |
#62 |
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I forget where I first heard that |
oneshooter |
Dec-07-11 12:31 PM |
#88 |
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It's a place of learning alright: |
Francis Marion |
Dec-10-11 01:17 PM |
#147 |
| -
When and where... |
Francis Marion |
Dec-10-11 01:40 PM |
#148 |
| -
some argue that slavery still exists |
gejohnston |
Dec-10-11 02:54 PM |
#149 |
| -
P.S. You are dead wrong, the BoR applies to us.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-10-11 08:32 PM |
#154 |
| -
are they really not safer? You think the criminals noticed the laws or lack of? |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 06:08 PM |
#27 |
| -
Blood in the streets, etc. |
krispos42 |
Dec-05-11 12:56 AM |
#38 |
| -
If you are 21, you are legal, college or no college. |
Atypical Liberal |
Dec-05-11 01:17 PM |
#50 |
| -
a logical next question |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 11:50 PM |
#66 |
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I have asked pro-restrictionists to rebut **ONE** of the |
Simo 1939_1940 |
Dec-05-11 11:38 PM |
#65 |
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private gun safes that can be secured to walls -- stupid |
Kolesar |
Dec-08-11 03:22 PM |
#124 |
| -
Who said anything about "have to"? |
PavePusher |
Dec-09-11 06:32 PM |
#141 |
| -
The President of UNH cited frat house behavior as a reason to not allow CCW, but the frats are not.. |
aikoaiko |
Dec-06-11 10:15 PM |
#71 |
| -
How can there be any guns on campuses? |
guardian |
Dec-08-11 03:27 PM |
#125 |
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