| 169. Well that clears up the whole issue. |
| -If you carry a loaded gun - you are ready, willing and able to save someone with it |
ileus |
Dec-03-11 08:45 PM |
#0 |
 -
say hello to my leetle friend! |
provis99 |
Dec-03-11 08:50 PM |
#1 |
| -
Or kill your family and any bystanders. |
Swede |
Dec-03-11 08:53 PM |
#2 |
 -
No. You grossly overestimate. |
TheWraith |
Dec-04-11 11:39 AM |
#65 |
 -
Can you provide empirical evidence of that claim? |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 06:13 AM |
#112 |
| -
Actual evidence to support a gun-control claim? |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 03:43 PM |
#181 |
| -
There |
Old Codger |
Dec-03-11 08:56 PM |
#3 |
| -
there Is no way to have a sane logical discussion on anything in this forum |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-03-11 09:33 PM |
#7 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-03-11 09:38 PM |
#9 |
| -
DU3 will provide us with a welcome relief from this forum! |
madinmaryland |
Dec-04-11 12:58 AM |
#33 |
| -
just like the TV |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 01:03 AM |
#35 |
| -
As my comment says, when DU3 is introduced I will be blocking this forum just |
madinmaryland |
Dec-04-11 10:19 AM |
#54 |
| -
If you can't restrain yourself from coming in here now..... |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 12:37 PM |
#78 |
| -
Why wait? |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 03:44 PM |
#182 |
| -
And yet, here you are posting in the very forum you decry.... |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-04-11 03:02 AM |
#40 |
| -
They'll get their way, one way or another.nt |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:20 PM |
#75 |
| -
well, I can understand the frustration but, there is a bigger picture -- |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 08:19 AM |
#48 |
| -
I am not stifling any discussion. I am only saying that I have no desire to have |
madinmaryland |
Dec-04-11 10:22 AM |
#55 |
| -
and yet --- Here you are -- |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 10:26 AM |
#56 |
| -
I will be heading over there in a little bit. For now, I have an arguement |
madinmaryland |
Dec-04-11 10:41 AM |
#57 |
| -
Well, you keep that shit in the Lounge then. We only discuss wholesome, onion-related |
petronius |
Dec-04-11 11:03 AM |
#60 |
| -
damn skippy, pardner |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 12:43 PM |
#83 |
| -
Yet you keep coming back |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 01:54 AM |
#110 |
| -
That is the solution. |
Hangingon |
Dec-04-11 09:23 AM |
#49 |
| -
I'm not stifling your discussion. I just want no part of the "discussion" that goes on in this |
madinmaryland |
Dec-04-11 10:18 AM |
#53 |
| -
Then why are you still here? Shoo!! Get thyself gone! n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 10:52 AM |
#58 |
| -
That is evidently a false statement, because here you are! |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 06:05 AM |
#111 |
| -
You seem like a good guy. |
discntnt_irny_srcsm |
Dec-05-11 12:22 PM |
#132 |
| -
Seriously, how will this "welcome relief" manifest itself? What |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:19 PM |
#74 |
| -
never mind -- deleted subthread confused me for a moment |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 01:00 PM |
#85 |
| -
Probably because some anti-2A folks have, you know... |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:18 PM |
#73 |
| -
excuse me |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 12:58 PM |
#84 |
| -
I was wondering how often that happens |
Nikia |
Dec-03-11 08:59 PM |
#4 |
| -
The police don't stop crime |
socialindependocrat |
Dec-03-11 09:21 PM |
#5 |
| -
I don't know how many civilians carry |
Nikia |
Dec-03-11 10:36 PM |
#15 |
| -
Nationally, the average is somewhere around 3 percent who actually carry concealed. |
TheWraith |
Dec-04-11 11:49 AM |
#69 |
| -
Minor correction re: Illinois |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 06:41 AM |
#113 |
| -
Concerning your fears about "a couple who hope..." |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:25 PM |
#76 |
| -
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the problem is? |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 06:54 AM |
#115 |
| -
Remember the parable about crabs in a bucket... n/t |
PavePusher |
Dec-05-11 11:29 AM |
#124 |
| -
It is not common |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-03-11 09:37 PM |
#8 |
| -
There are several websites that document actual incidents of self-defense. |
PavePusher |
Dec-03-11 11:00 PM |
#18 |
| -
depends on the study |
gejohnston |
Dec-03-11 11:16 PM |
#20 |
| -
It's hard to estimate |
DissedByBush |
Dec-03-11 11:31 PM |
#23 |
| -
Defensive gun uses are estimated anywhere between 250,000 and 4 million per year. |
TheWraith |
Dec-04-11 11:44 AM |
#68 |
| -
There may be a website for this... |
SteveM |
Dec-05-11 03:36 PM |
#141 |
| -
but more likely |
bowens43 |
Dec-03-11 09:29 PM |
#6 |
| -
So-o-o-o-o... you're volunteering to be responsible for my personal security.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-03-11 10:55 PM |
#17 |
| -
He's doing his part by not carrying a gun. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 03:19 PM |
#90 |
| -
Leaving him alone and not interfereing with his options, liberty or property. |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 03:38 PM |
#92 |
| -
Not a damn thing |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:19 PM |
#130 |
| -
But Pave Pusher seemed to expect someone to be protecting him. Hence the question |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 03:40 PM |
#142 |
| -
You misunderstood the question... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:38 PM |
#147 |
| -
Firstly, I expect nobody to be disarmed. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 06:35 PM |
#163 |
| -
Firstly.... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 08:47 AM |
#176 |
| -
Once again, let me clarify my position |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 08:57 PM |
#183 |
| -
False |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 07:44 AM |
#41 |
| -
What exactly is a lie? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 03:23 PM |
#91 |
| -
Well.. |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 07:09 PM |
#98 |
| -
Firearms are the suicide choice of US children. Not to mention accidents and domestic disputes |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 12:47 AM |
#108 |
| -
And how does this have anything to do with the statement at hand? |
pipoman |
Dec-05-11 06:49 AM |
#114 |
| -
OK. let me help you see the absurdity of it. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 04:08 PM |
#145 |
| -
no but |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 04:40 PM |
#148 |
| -
Well that clears up the whole issue. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 07:48 PM |
#169 |
| -
Sounds like the arguement you are trying to make is |
pipoman |
Dec-06-11 06:00 AM |
#174 |
| -
Skewed statistics. |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-05-11 11:39 AM |
#125 |
| -
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Kellerman. I didn't find that name in the link I posted. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 04:17 PM |
#146 |
| -
I dont. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:41 PM |
#149 |
| -
Well, you've made up your mind, but you might want to read this |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 09:01 PM |
#170 |
| -
you know what I noticed |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 10:13 PM |
#172 |
| -
Criminology is a interdisciplinary. Donohue's research was exemplary. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 10:16 PM |
#184 |
| -
MDs are not scientists |
gejohnston |
Dec-06-11 10:41 PM |
#186 |
| -
Donohue is not an MD. He is a Law profeesor, Economist and Criminologist, Sociologist, you name it |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 11:30 PM |
#188 |
| -
my bad |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 12:02 AM |
#190 |
| -
Yes, I have read Kessler. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-07-11 12:12 AM |
#192 |
| -
Arthure Kellerman, author of the CDC study |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-05-11 06:21 PM |
#161 |
| -
Let's restrict ourselves to the claims that were made, shall we? |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 07:22 AM |
#116 |
| -
Sorry, I'm not buying your "7 times saved" claim |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 03:52 PM |
#144 |
| -
Yes, you can exclude suicides. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:45 PM |
#150 |
| -
Wrong again. Your denial is staggering. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 06:49 PM |
#164 |
| -
Let's see the study |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 07:07 PM |
#166 |
| -
This is lengthy, but worth perusing. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 09:04 PM |
#171 |
| -
Here is one critique |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-06-11 08:03 AM |
#175 |
| -
Well, there's the rub. Most suicidal people are seriously depressed. They are ill. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 10:31 PM |
#185 |
| -
does that number include |
gejohnston |
Dec-06-11 10:46 PM |
#187 |
| -
You can look it up if you really care. |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 11:32 PM |
#189 |
| -
your argument, not mine. and I'll take that as |
gejohnston |
Dec-07-11 12:03 AM |
#191 |
| -
I concede I overstates, but not because I was excluding suicides |
Euromutt |
Dec-05-11 07:46 PM |
#168 |
| -
Double wrong... |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 07:56 AM |
#43 |
| -
"NO ONE should be allowed to carry one." This includes LEO's also does it not? n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 03:57 PM |
#93 |
| -
Upon what do you base that claim? |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:18 PM |
#129 |
| -
This opinion is pure bullshit |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 02:03 PM |
#139 |
| -
I would replace "are" with "ought to be" - carrying alone doesn't make you ready and able, |
petronius |
Dec-03-11 09:46 PM |
#10 |
| -
Fight the way you train....you are correct. |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 08:03 AM |
#44 |
| -
LOL! Is that the delusion? |
aquart |
Dec-03-11 09:47 PM |
#11 |
| -
No, just your rank fantasy... |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:35 PM |
#77 |
| -
Doesn't work in practice |
johnd83 |
Dec-03-11 09:50 PM |
#12 |
| -
Oh really? |
Straw Man |
Dec-03-11 10:30 PM |
#13 |
| -
This article is a little old but i doubt the statistics have changed much |
johnd83 |
Dec-03-11 11:03 PM |
#19 |
| -
statistically, a cop is more likely to fire |
gejohnston |
Dec-03-11 11:25 PM |
#22 |
| -
I really wish we had something like a stun phasor |
johnd83 |
Dec-03-11 11:36 PM |
#24 |
| -
True |
gejohnston |
Dec-03-11 11:52 PM |
#25 |
| -
Good idea, if it wasn't used on OWS protestors! |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:40 PM |
#80 |
| -
I wish we did too. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:24 PM |
#134 |
| -
Error. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 12:41 AM |
#27 |
| -
Statistically you are still far more likely to hurt yourself or your family |
johnd83 |
Dec-04-11 12:49 AM |
#29 |
| -
Every study I have seen that made that claim... |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 12:53 AM |
#30 |
| -
The study you mention was paid for by a lobbying group |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 12:53 AM |
#31 |
| -
Uh, the study was from the New England Journal of Medicine |
johnd83 |
Dec-04-11 12:56 AM |
#32 |
| -
it was published in the New England Journal of Medicine |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 01:02 AM |
#34 |
| -
Here ya go |
johnd83 |
Dec-04-11 01:29 AM |
#36 |
| -
Ah, Hemenway... |
Straw Man |
Dec-04-11 02:21 AM |
#38 |
| -
A fourth rate economist that also takes money from said foundation and |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 04:44 PM |
#94 |
| -
wrong place |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 07:21 PM |
#99 |
| -
The biggest problem with these once written, twice believed |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 08:22 PM |
#104 |
| -
Would you accept medical advice from a criminologist? |
friendly_iconoclast |
Dec-04-11 02:52 AM |
#39 |
| -
The "study" is so debunked, even MAIG and Brady |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 07:27 PM |
#100 |
| -
Nope - not even true. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:26 PM |
#135 |
| -
Your stats are about use in the home. |
Straw Man |
Dec-04-11 01:58 AM |
#37 |
| -
Old and worthless |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:23 PM |
#133 |
| -
By the time he was in a position to SEE the attacker |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 12:40 AM |
#26 |
| -
But he didn't.... |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 08:05 AM |
#45 |
| -
You may wish to read again what really happened. |
SteveM |
Dec-04-11 12:38 PM |
#79 |
| -
Blatantly false. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:21 PM |
#131 |
| -
He didn't "nearly shoot" the guy who disarmed the shooter |
rl6214 |
Dec-05-11 02:13 PM |
#140 |
| -
Yup. nt |
Union Scribe |
Dec-03-11 10:33 PM |
#14 |
| -
better to just stick with comic books, I think.... |
mike_c |
Dec-03-11 10:45 PM |
#16 |
| -
We who are about to die salute you |
jpak |
Dec-03-11 11:19 PM |
#21 |
| -
That's twice in two threads you've claimed to be a criminal? Why the worry? |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 08:09 AM |
#46 |
| -
Nope - guns everywhere all the time + castle laws = dead innocent citizens |
jpak |
Dec-04-11 10:06 AM |
#52 |
| -
your math is off -- may I suggest a math class |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 11:43 AM |
#66 |
| -
Facts say otherwise. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 12:29 PM |
#136 |
| -
I think my 12 y/o plays that game -- want me to set up a play date? |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 08:15 AM |
#47 |
| -
I would make the same statement as the subject line of the OP. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 12:43 AM |
#28 |
| -
No need to carry the CPR mask anymore |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 07:52 AM |
#42 |
| -
That wasn't in our last round of training. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 10:58 AM |
#59 |
| -
I think the only time it is recommended is when |
pipoman |
Dec-04-11 03:03 PM |
#89 |
| -
Please, Ileus, I don't want gun carriers' help/protection because guns in public are not answer and |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 09:23 AM |
#50 |
| -
Walking away is always an option. |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 10:01 AM |
#51 |
| -
Walking away from what -- some gun toter playing public protector? |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 11:26 AM |
#63 |
| -
walking away from a person in need |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 11:38 AM |
#64 |
| -
I'm not saying walk away from a person in need. But, poster above thinks he's Bat Man with a gun. |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 12:12 PM |
#70 |
| -
being prepared for emergencies that might arise in any given situation |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 12:40 PM |
#81 |
| -
Yea, I bet you walk around with a defibrillator and other emergency equipment. |
Hoyt |
Dec-05-11 09:07 AM |
#119 |
| -
no, but I do know first aid and CPR. I am not qualified as a First Responder |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-05-11 12:39 PM |
#137 |
| -
about half the time I do have a defib in my trunk |
ileus |
Dec-05-11 12:50 PM |
#138 |
| -
Not a defibrilator... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:49 PM |
#151 |
| -
Guns fit in nicely with your life saving emergency stuff. |
Hoyt |
Dec-06-11 05:25 AM |
#173 |
| -
Yep they sure do. Don't even take up any room in the saddlebags. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 08:51 AM |
#177 |
| -
Uh...batman didn't use firearms, generally. LOL. N/t |
beevul |
Dec-04-11 01:09 PM |
#87 |
| -
Bullshit. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 07:39 PM |
#102 |
| -
He won't step in. He believes that is the job of the Government ( police). n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 08:40 PM |
#105 |
| -
Actually, lots of things one can do without a gun -- but you won't even try leaving yours at home. |
Hoyt |
Dec-05-11 09:06 AM |
#118 |
| -
Unqualified absolute. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-05-11 10:01 AM |
#122 |
| -
You always say this"because guns in public are not answer " but you never, ever |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 11:13 AM |
#61 |
| -
Answer surely is not some cowboy walking out door ready to play police and Spider Man with a gun. |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 11:25 AM |
#62 |
| -
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or are you just ignorant? |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 12:13 PM |
#71 |
| -
Spiderman |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Dec-04-11 01:05 PM |
#86 |
| -
Uh...spiderman didn't use guns either. |
beevul |
Dec-04-11 01:11 PM |
#88 |
| -
Didn't he have some god-awful phlegm that squirted from the palm of his hand? nt |
SteveM |
Dec-05-11 03:50 PM |
#143 |
| -
Depending on the story, yes. |
beevul |
Dec-05-11 06:59 PM |
#165 |
| -
I always thought of Spiderman as a commentary on |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 07:10 PM |
#167 |
| -
Sigh... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:51 PM |
#152 |
| -
You have made your position clear. |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-04-11 11:44 AM |
#67 |
| -
Walking out your door thinking you are a public protector with a gun is dangerous. |
Hoyt |
Dec-04-11 12:14 PM |
#72 |
| -
Like I said, you have made your position clear |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-04-11 09:55 PM |
#106 |
| -
Meh - i don't claim to know what others think. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-06-11 08:53 AM |
#178 |
| -
Self-defense, or defense of others.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-04-11 12:43 PM |
#82 |
| -
OK, but what about the "public defender" part? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-04-11 06:12 PM |
#96 |
| -
In seattle, the 'caped crusaders' are actually ... wearing capes. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 07:41 PM |
#103 |
| -
You are talking about |
gejohnston |
Dec-04-11 09:59 PM |
#107 |
| -
Oh, that's right. They don't don't need guns. How about Bronson in "Death Wish"? |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-05-11 12:53 AM |
#109 |
| -
Only because |
gejohnston |
Dec-05-11 08:43 AM |
#117 |
| -
You realize that was a movie, right? n/t |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:58 PM |
#155 |
| -
Ummm.... (fighting for hilarity control).... |
PavePusher |
Dec-05-11 05:21 PM |
#157 |
| -
Just because you believe people like you describe exist... |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:57 PM |
#154 |
| -
I don't deal with beliefs, only facts |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 03:32 PM |
#179 |
| -
Argueably, if I have succesfully defended myself, I have defended the public. |
PavePusher |
Dec-05-11 05:19 PM |
#156 |
| -
As you say "arguably" . It's all about perception |
Starboard Tack |
Dec-06-11 03:36 PM |
#180 |
| -
I'm not LEO but if I come across you getting gang raped, what am I if I hide and watch? |
ileus |
Dec-04-11 06:05 PM |
#95 |
| -
jpak? n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-04-11 06:53 PM |
#97 |
| -
Ah, Oneshooter, you might need a gun to step in and help -- but others might not need such support. |
Hoyt |
Dec-05-11 09:15 AM |
#121 |
| -
That would still make them a "vigilante" according to the doctrine you espouse. n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-05-11 12:01 PM |
#126 |
| -
I would not "need" a gun to step in, but it would be nice to have one.... |
PavePusher |
Dec-05-11 05:58 PM |
#159 |
| -
Why would you plan on just "watching"? News for you -- Lots of things people can do without a gun. |
Hoyt |
Dec-05-11 09:12 AM |
#120 |
| -
Always use the right tool for the job. |
ileus |
Dec-05-11 10:43 AM |
#123 |
| -
I would. |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-05-11 12:04 PM |
#127 |
| -
Ignoring post 106 for a reason? |
one-eyed fat man |
Dec-05-11 12:17 PM |
#128 |
| -
Because you have told us that you do not need, nor want, to be saved. n/t |
oneshooter |
Dec-05-11 06:03 PM |
#160 |
| -
It's been explained to you before that it has ZILCH to do with 'judge' or 'jury' |
AtheistCrusader |
Dec-04-11 07:38 PM |
#101 |
| -
Nobody is claiming to be. |
We_Have_A_Problem |
Dec-05-11 04:56 PM |
#153 |
| -
Nah... I just like to look like a bad ass |
Glassunion |
Dec-05-11 05:27 PM |
#158 |
| -
Jojo Krako supports this. |
beevul |
Dec-05-11 06:22 PM |
#162 |
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