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Reply #164: If it's the minority of folks [View All]

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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #145
164. If it's the minority of folks
Why do the majorityh of folks keep electing representatives that vote down gun control measures? Come on, answer the question.
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  -CCW holder shoots fleeing robber, charged with murder Atypical Liberal  Aug-31-11 11:36 AM   #0 
  - Jesus shoots fleeing robber. n/t  Ian David   Aug-31-11 11:40 AM   #1 
  - since the robbery victim was no longer in jeopardy...  mike_c   Aug-31-11 11:41 AM   #2 
  - Too bad he didn't live in Texas.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 11:50 AM   #8 
  - Perhaps more to the point is that...  TreasonousBastard   Aug-31-11 11:57 AM   #13 
  - No, a warning shot would not be legal.  TheWraith   Aug-31-11 12:07 PM   #24 
  - You can legally use a firearm to stop an attack if you honestly feel that ...  spin   Aug-31-11 03:08 PM   #104 
  - Ah, the fear factor complete with psychological analysis...  SteveM   Aug-31-11 12:11 PM   #30 
  - oh no-- I'll be the first to admit substantial prejudice....  mike_c   Aug-31-11 12:37 PM   #45 
     - If that is what you believe...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 12:58 PM   #58 
     - that is, in fact, our plan....  mike_c   Aug-31-11 01:11 PM   #65 
        - Good for you.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:17 PM   #69 
        - Don't let the door hit you on the way out.  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:21 AM   #172 
     - This is why when the GOP says liberals are just as prejudiced as they are...  SteveM   Aug-31-11 01:14 PM   #67 
     - and if my analysis turns out to be correct, then what will you do...?  mike_c   Aug-31-11 01:35 PM   #79 
        - Please don't speak to me of "rational people," ...  SteveM   Aug-31-11 02:26 PM   #95 
     - You got that backwards...  rl6214   Aug-31-11 04:25 PM   #135 
  - I would prosecute but at lesser charges since it happened under duress.  Nuclear Unicorn   Aug-31-11 12:34 PM   #42 
     - I agree. The guy probably reacted in a confused panic.  TheWraith   Aug-31-11 05:05 PM   #146 
  - Shoot to kill speeding drivers too,  safeinOhio   Aug-31-11 11:41 AM   #3 
  - If you truly  MrDiaz   Aug-31-11 12:35 PM   #43 
     - speeders and drunks can take your life.  safeinOhio   Aug-31-11 12:44 PM   #46 
        - so what  MrDiaz   Aug-31-11 02:20 PM   #94 
  - But, that's not possible!  TheWraith   Aug-31-11 11:43 AM   #4 
  - if Abbot had stolen a ball point pen from Canul, would you still defend the shooting and killing?  DrDan   Aug-31-11 11:44 AM   #5 
  - Yup.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 11:52 AM   #10 
  - I think the question is - do you have the right to kill people that have stolen from you  DrDan   Aug-31-11 11:56 AM   #12 
  - Depends on the state.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 11:59 AM   #16 
  - how about an answer from a moral perspective  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:01 PM   #19 
     - I already answered, but I'll answer again:  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:13 PM   #31 
     - Explain the morals of the criminal. n/t  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 12:14 PM   #32 
     - the issue at hand is whether a killing is justified if one's property is stolen  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:15 PM   #34 
        - "how about an answer from a moral perspective"  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 12:35 PM   #44 
        - and the issue at hand is - is it right to "kill" to protect property  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:48 PM   #49 
           - "is it right to "kill" to protect property"  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 12:52 PM   #53 
              - Absolutely. n/t  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:56 PM   #56 
        - Yes, deadly force is justified to defend property.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:53 PM   #54 
           - So, if a person were to consider taxes to be theft, is deadly force justified? n/t  bigmonkey   Aug-31-11 12:58 PM   #59 
              - Well, the government is willing to use deadly force to make you pay.... n/t  PavePusher   Aug-31-11 01:34 PM   #78 
              - Taxes are not theft, so no.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 03:00 PM   #100 
                 - But you would support someone else's decision that they are, and to respond with deadly force?  bigmonkey   Aug-31-11 03:10 PM   #107 
                    - No...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 03:30 PM   #113 
                    - Following the law seems not to be an issue for most "property is primary" folks.  bigmonkey   Aug-31-11 03:51 PM   #119 
                       - Not quite.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 04:04 PM   #124 
                          - Your response is directed at elements of my statement that are not in evidence.  bigmonkey   Aug-31-11 04:12 PM   #126 
                    - No.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 04:14 PM   #129 
                       - You think it's pretty clear.  bigmonkey   Aug-31-11 04:34 PM   #139 
     - From a "moral perspective"? Yes...  MicaelS   Aug-31-11 12:16 PM   #35 
     - is there any dollar value that does not justify taking a life?  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:19 PM   #37 
        - The dollar value that keeps someone from being hungry or homeless. n/t  MicaelS   Aug-31-11 12:20 PM   #38 
        - so if the property is of inconsequential value, a killing is not justified  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:22 PM   #39 
           - Who determines "inconsequential value", you?  MicaelS   Aug-31-11 12:31 PM   #41 
              - nor am I  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:51 PM   #51 
              - interesting that you do not trust someone who places the value of a human life over property  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:53 PM   #88 
                 - Read what I wrote...  MicaelS   Aug-31-11 10:17 PM   #162 
                    - I did - and as I said  DrDan   Sep-01-11 06:19 AM   #167 
                       - You miss some very important points...  MicaelS   Sep-01-11 11:03 AM   #171 
        - I'm not the one placing a value on a life...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:00 PM   #61 
        - you pull a trigger and take someone's life - you have made yourself the  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:10 PM   #64 
        - Simple question:  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:21 PM   #70 
           - more "gun logic" - "mess with me at your risk"  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:22 PM   #72 
              - That is not what I said.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:26 PM   #73 
              - and you are deciding to pull the trigger knowing full well you are taking a life  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:31 PM   #75 
                 - Wrong again.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:45 PM   #84 
              - EXACTLY.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 03:26 PM   #109 
        - Well stated! n/t  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 01:11 PM   #66 
           - Thank you n/t  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:21 PM   #71 
        - Of course there is.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 03:05 PM   #102 
     - How much moral standing is a thief worth?  one-eyed fat man   Aug-31-11 02:55 PM   #98 
        - "The clear implication is he held the victim's life as less valuable than the victim's paycheck. "  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 03:10 PM   #106 
        - The value of a thief  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 04:45 PM   #140 
  - The question really is....  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 01:10 PM   #196 
  - aargh, deleted  iverglas   Nov-18-11 03:37 PM   #209 
  - Are you offering to reimburse Canul for his stolen money? n/t  PavePusher   Aug-31-11 12:29 PM   #40 
  - I have no idea what that has to do with the issue being discussed  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:54 PM   #55 
     - Well, if you don't want people shooting criminals who attempt to abscond...  PavePusher   Aug-31-11 01:32 PM   #77 
        - no middle ground - hmmmmm  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:35 PM   #80 
           - The "middle ground" is...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:51 PM   #87 
           - The thief/robber is free to drop the money at any time.  PavePusher   Aug-31-11 03:57 PM   #122 
              - if that were the case, I would defend your action  DrDan   Sep-01-11 08:57 AM   #169 
                 - Interesting....  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 12:53 PM   #185 
                    - that example stated a specific use for that money - cancer treatment  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:59 PM   #189 
                       - So in your mind...  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 01:06 PM   #193 
  - Are we talking about a 14-karat gold-filled Cross pen here, or just a plain 19-cent Bic?  slackmaster   Aug-31-11 01:43 PM   #83 
     - to some here, it makes no difference  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:55 PM   #89 
  - what if he saw him the next day on the street?  Enrique   Aug-31-11 11:49 AM   #6 
  - A little absurd.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 11:54 AM   #11 
  - Why not? We could call it the "Inigo Montoya" defense...  petronius   Aug-31-11 11:59 AM   #17 
  - In your hypothetical, is the criminal still threatening people with a deadly weapon?  Union Scribe   Aug-31-11 10:50 PM   #163 
  - Responsible Gun Ownership 101: A perp running away from you is no longer presenting a deadly threat  rocktivity   Aug-31-11 11:49 AM   #7 
  - You defend this?  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-11 11:51 AM   #9 
  - Defense of property.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 11:57 AM   #14 
     - ahhhh - but you said up-thread that you support the killing even if it had been an ink pen  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:00 PM   #18 
     - Yup.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:07 PM   #25 
        - thanks - and appreciate the honesty in admitting that your property is more  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:11 PM   #29 
           - But remember, I'm not setting the value.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:15 PM   #33 
              - YOU are setting the value of his life as taking it is in your hands  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:17 PM   #36 
              - If a thief values his life more than my stuff...  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:46 PM   #47 
                 - if you are the decider as to whether a life is taken - you are setting the value  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:49 PM   #50 
                    - If they are the decider as to whether to risk their life - they are setting the value.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:59 PM   #60 
                    - If you willingly...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 01:03 PM   #62 
                    - Where have I heard that argument before, hmmmmmm  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 01:27 PM   #74 
                       - how absurd  DrDan   Aug-31-11 01:37 PM   #81 
                          - Not absurd at all  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 02:05 PM   #92 
                             - more personal insults -so typical of here  DrDan   Aug-31-11 04:56 PM   #143 
                                - You seem to be confusing having one's ideas exposed as hypocritical BS with personal insult.  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:37 AM   #174 
                                - you mean like this:  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:09 PM   #181 
                                   - No, I mean this:  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 12:42 PM   #182 
                                      - and you have an example demonstrating that point, now don't you  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:48 PM   #183 
                                         - Yes, the example is your last response to someone explaining how your ideas were wrong, which you  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 12:56 PM   #186 
                                            - telling someone they are not bright enough to comprehend their post  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:57 PM   #187 
                                            - No one said you were not bright enough.  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 01:00 PM   #191 
                                - I didnt see any personal insults....  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 11:53 AM   #179 
                                   - well . . . here's one example  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:08 PM   #180 
                                      - Uh, Dan, thats an opinion. Had the poster stated something like...  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 12:58 PM   #188 
                                      - an insult - but, I would expect nothing less than denial here  DrDan   Sep-01-11 01:00 PM   #190 
                                         - I guess I will just end with a repeat of what I stated earlier...  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 01:02 PM   #192 
                                      - Not an insult.  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 01:13 PM   #197 
              - I think you hit it perfectly with that statement.  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:32 AM   #173 
     - So, if I scratched the paint on your car, you'd feel justified in shooting me  RaleighNCDUer   Aug-31-11 12:01 PM   #20 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-31-11 12:10 PM   #26 
     - It depends on the situation.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 05:53 PM   #152 
     - no  gejohnston   Aug-31-11 10:10 PM   #161 
     - Is the car scratcher trying to steal the paint?  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:38 AM   #175 
     - You may be content with that, but the law isn't, and...  TreasonousBastard   Aug-31-11 12:02 PM   #21 
        - Depends on where you live.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:10 PM   #27 
  - "If and when it ever gets to a grand jury..."  DWC   Aug-31-11 11:59 AM   #15 
  - "Once he took off with the money . . . "  DrDan   Aug-31-11 12:04 PM   #22 
  - Even money bet  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 12:10 PM   #28 
     - 185gr +P rounds? That's pretty quick for a forty five...  OneTenthofOnePercent   Aug-31-11 01:41 PM   #82 
     - Self defense hand loads  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 02:40 PM   #97 
        - 165g 45's I need to get some of those for mine.  ileus   Aug-31-11 04:24 PM   #133 
           - Have you tested for penetration?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Aug-31-11 05:11 PM   #147 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-31-11 02:39 PM   #96 
        - Don't mistake confidence for boasting,  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:15 PM   #108 
           - Posting about how you are going to pull your gun and shoot an unarmed man -- ain't "confidence."  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 03:27 PM   #110 
              - That was not what he said.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 03:29 PM   #112 
              - That's what this thread is about, and our friend says you die if you take something from him.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 03:40 PM   #115 
                 - Maybe you should talk to some victims of violent crime  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:43 PM   #117 
                    - I have been a victim of some CCWass pulling a gun on me (more than once) -- handled it w/o one too.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 04:10 PM   #125 
                       - If someone really pulled a gun on you  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 04:27 PM   #136 
                       - Like I said, I took care of it myself each time. You don't like being reminded of why guns aren't  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 04:59 PM   #145 
                          - I have no problem with someone who believes....  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 05:35 PM   #149 
                          - So YOU were the judge, jury and punishment! How uncivilized, fisticuffs in the middle of the street  oneshooter   Aug-31-11 08:09 PM   #160 
                          - If it's the minority of folks  rl6214   Aug-31-11 10:54 PM   #164 
                          - Simple, the majority of folks don't know what today's gunners are like. They need to be reminded  Hoyt   Sep-01-11 06:04 AM   #166 
                             - What's "chit"?  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:42 AM   #178 
                          - The verdict is in on your claim...  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:41 AM   #177 
                       - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-31-11 06:15 PM   #154 
                       - When? Where? Proof? You are making that up out of whole cloth. A total fabrication.  cleanhippie   Sep-01-11 11:40 AM   #176 
              - WTF! - "shoot an unarmed man"  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:40 PM   #116 
              - Hey Hoyt, find those balls yet?  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:54 PM   #121 
                 - People who say they're gonna shoot anyone who takes something from them, deserve no apology.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 04:13 PM   #128 
                    - Just because you cannot...  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 04:28 PM   #137 
                    - Imagination? LMAO. Paranoia and callousness more like it.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 04:56 PM   #142 
                       - There is neither.  We_Have_A_Problem   Aug-31-11 05:36 PM   #150 
                    - I guess this would be OK for you  rl6214   Aug-31-11 10:56 PM   #165 
                    - The apology was for YOUR blantant lie  Spoonman   Sep-02-11 01:46 PM   #207 
              - Dishonest sack of shit?  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:46 PM   #118 
                 - Might be if someone made a false statement, but you are the one bragging about shooting someone with  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 04:15 PM   #130 
                    - You really expect us to believe you are that ignorant?  Spoonman   Sep-02-11 01:52 PM   #208 
  - eyewittness account  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:06 PM   #23 
  - "...Thats when Jesse shot him when he took off running...He was maybe eight to 10 feet away..."  rocktivity   Aug-31-11 01:17 PM   #68 
  - Reads like a good shooting to me...  ileus   Aug-31-11 04:29 PM   #138 
     - You better get yourself a good lawyer then. Being charged with murder don't seem fun. nt  jmg257   Aug-31-11 04:49 PM   #141 
     - So shooting someone in the back as they are running away  RaleighNCDUer   Sep-01-11 08:35 PM   #205 
  - Another shooting by a gun carrier with a permit. They tell us it doesn't happen, but it does.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 12:46 PM   #48 
  - No, you are told it doesn't happen OFTEN.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 12:52 PM   #52 
  - But not less likely than the 90% or so who could get a permit, but realize it's not necessary  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 01:48 PM   #86 
     - Wrong. They are still safer compared to those 90% who could get a permit  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 02:59 PM   #99 
        - No, that is not true. Those who could pass a background check are just as law abiding, yet  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 03:29 PM   #111 
           - How about posting some credible sources to support these assertions?  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 03:52 PM   #120 
           - Incorrect. When compared against THE ENTIRE REST OF THE POPULATION.  Atypical Liberal   Aug-31-11 04:13 PM   #127 
  - "it will happen more and more"  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 01:08 PM   #63 
  - I disagree, the more toters, the more shootings by toters. Further rate will likely increase  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 01:46 PM   #85 
     - "What "overwhelming facts" are you posting about."  Spoonman   Aug-31-11 02:19 PM   #93 
  - He was being assaulted so it's not just  rl6214   Aug-31-11 06:23 PM   #156 
  - I would argue that  one-eyed fat man   Sep-01-11 03:29 PM   #199 
  - I feel for the guy  tularetom   Aug-31-11 12:57 PM   #57 
  - DING DING DING! Tularetom, you're our grand prize winner!  rocktivity   Aug-31-11 01:32 PM   #76 
  - I disagree with you on this one.  Glassunion   Aug-31-11 02:00 PM   #90 
  - The man got what he wanted  Loki   Aug-31-11 02:02 PM   #91 
  - Burglary is not robbery..  X_Digger   Aug-31-11 03:04 PM   #101 
  - Yea, sure, shooting some guy in the back who only has hands/feet doesn't sound like self-defense.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 03:32 PM   #114 
     - Perhaps you might re-read the post I replied to and try a reply that actually makes sense..  X_Digger   Aug-31-11 04:25 PM   #134 
        - I did read your post and the one you responded to. You were wrong.  Hoyt   Aug-31-11 06:32 PM   #158 
           - Where the fuck did I say shooting someone in the back, dear?  X_Digger   Aug-31-11 07:47 PM   #159 
  - DNA evidence????  one-eyed fat man   Aug-31-11 03:08 PM   #103 
  - "You're coming with me..." Sounds more like a kidnapping at that point.  jmg257   Aug-31-11 04:57 PM   #144 
  - That's just dishonest BS  rl6214   Aug-31-11 06:28 PM   #157 
  - What a coincidence.  rrneck   Aug-31-11 03:09 PM   #105 
  - You gonna be carrying guns for self-defense, you better know the fucking laws.  jmg257   Aug-31-11 03:59 PM   #123 
  - Hopefully he'll draw a friendly jury...  ileus   Aug-31-11 04:20 PM   #131 
  - Gotta disagree with you on this one  rl6214   Aug-31-11 04:22 PM   #132 
  - I think a decent lawyer could at least spin off a plea bargain...  OneTenthofOnePercent   Aug-31-11 05:21 PM   #148 
  - Nope. You shoot a punk in the back who's running away...  Common Sense Party   Aug-31-11 05:37 PM   #151 
  - I strongly disagree. Shooting a thief in the back is murder, though not first degree.  TPaine7   Aug-31-11 06:15 PM   #153 
  - One wonders why he didnt draw and fire before handing the money over  Endangered Specie   Aug-31-11 06:17 PM   #155 
  - Ugh. Legally straightforward, morally a bit trickier  Euromutt   Sep-01-11 06:22 AM   #168 
  - Note that no Anti has offered to reimburse Mr. Canul or other victims of robbery.  PavePusher   Sep-01-11 09:59 AM   #170 
  - I think the telling part is how many "regulars" here are lining up  DrDan   Sep-01-11 12:51 PM   #184 
     - Sure is.  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 01:08 PM   #194 
     - I have not seen you offer up your check-book to the victims of robbery.  PavePusher   Sep-01-11 01:51 PM   #198 
     - there is no lack of folks here willing to pull the trigger, is there  DrDan   Sep-01-11 04:09 PM   #200 
        - Nope  We_Have_A_Problem   Sep-01-11 04:46 PM   #201 
     - I think it more telling that MORE of us "regular" "toters" are AGAINST  Common Sense Party   Sep-01-11 05:15 PM   #202 
  - "Canul very probably did the one thing he could to prevent losing his weekly or monthly income."  jmg257   Sep-01-11 01:10 PM   #195 
     - Decisions born of desperation are rarely wise  Euromutt   Sep-01-11 10:03 PM   #206 
  - Sounds like righteous case of murder  Starboard Tack   Sep-01-11 05:37 PM   #203 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-01-11 05:55 PM   #204 
 

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