ProgressiveProfessor
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Sun Aug-28-11 12:32 PM
Original message |
| Boston Globe Editorial - A False Choice: Gun making vs. gun control |
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NEW ENGLAND has a centuries-old tradition of both gun manufacturing and gun control. It shouldn't have to pick between the two. However, at least one manufacturer is trying to force the matter. Proposals to require that guns be made suitable for micro-stamping, a technology which would allow shell casings to be traced back to the exact gun they were fired from, have been introduced in the Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts legislatures. These have drawn significant criticism from gun manufacturers, at least one of which, Colt, is threatening to move out of New England if such legislation is adopted. . . . While firearms manufacturers have a right to lobby against this legislation and explain their objections to it, it is inappropriate to wield the jobs of hundreds of workers as a weapon. Micro-stamping does not place any significant burden on the sale or manufacture of guns. It is not a ban or an arduous tax. It merely requires the engraving of a serial number in one more place on the weapon. If a state legislature decides micro-stamping is appropriate, it should not be forced to choose between citizens’ lives and citizens’ livelihood. Complete article here: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/edi... / ============================================ This is an interesting conundrum for the pols. In an area where manufacturing jobs are already seriously eroded, do they run more off for something of negligible effectiveness. Unlike the Boeing fracas, this is not over union issues, but the political climate, so there will be no NLRB action. However, like Boeing there will be numerous states willing to host Colt and any others that choose to move. The stakes are pretty clear. The squeals of the author are hypocritical. Actions, especially political actions have consequences and the Globe surely knows that. The comments on the article are fairly surprising in their tone. Then again, its not like comments in a major newspaper are just from the local area either. The down side of course is the impact on the workers. IME, New Englanders tend to be less mobile than others groups. Extended families often live in the same region. The pols decision in light of announcements could force hard choices on them.
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| -Boston Globe Editorial - A False Choice: Gun making vs. gun control |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 12:32 PM |
#0 |
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Dearest Colt, we'd welcome you here in Virginia. |
ileus |
Aug-28-11 12:37 PM |
#1 |
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I think Colt would be much happier here in Florida |
PuffedMica |
Aug-28-11 05:40 PM |
#50 |
  -
You are both wrong. Please come to Texas. |
Hoopla Phil |
Aug-28-11 06:34 PM |
#54 |
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Colorado Rocky Mountain High |
RSillsbee |
Aug-28-11 06:41 PM |
#56 |
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O bull... The Commonwealth of PA would be a perfect location. |
Glassunion |
Sep-04-11 06:12 PM |
#72 |
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Cleveland, Pittsburgh or Detroit would make ALOT of sense... |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Sep-05-11 09:19 AM |
#114 |
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Pittsburg it is! |
Glassunion |
Sep-05-11 09:20 AM |
#115 |
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Cleveland. (Go Browns) |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Sep-05-11 09:52 AM |
#122 |
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I have a lovely valley here in Utah where you would feel very much at home. |
Common Sense Party |
Sep-06-11 11:39 PM |
#127 |
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Prime example of Shooting ones self in the foot or do whats right. |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 12:40 PM |
#2 |
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What would you consider "doing whats right"? |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 12:51 PM |
#3 |
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Thats why they want to do it?or "GUN CONTROL JUST DOESN'T WORK" PERIOD! |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 01:43 PM |
#11 |
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OMG I thought I just saw a ghost NT |
RSillsbee |
Aug-28-11 02:00 PM |
#22 |
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LOL! Me too. |
Hoopla Phil |
Aug-28-11 06:35 PM |
#55 |
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If S&W, Springfield, and Colt left NE, that would be something. |
aikoaiko |
Aug-28-11 01:02 PM |
#4 |
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SA did not leave Illinois, but IIRC established a second facility elsewhere |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 01:37 PM |
#9 |
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True enough. |
aikoaiko |
Aug-28-11 06:07 PM |
#53 |
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Maybe, but compare what Ruger's been doing... |
Euromutt |
Sep-03-11 07:58 AM |
#60 |
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Typical corporation -- bend over to our demands or we're shipping jobs elsewhere. Screw em. |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 01:19 PM |
#5 |
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Pretty bold considering what has happened in California |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 01:42 PM |
#10 |
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Maybe it's time corporations stop their threats. Micro-stamping is not a big deal for them. |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 04:01 PM |
#35 |
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There is a history of boycotts against manufacturers, see Post#33. |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 04:13 PM |
#37 |
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How about the gunners who whine about innocuous micro-stamping? They are our problem. |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 04:54 PM |
#42 |
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Concealed carry does not figure into this at all |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 05:28 PM |
#47 |
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You cant bargain or try to "work with" those who wish to destroy you |
Katya Mullethov |
Sep-03-11 08:03 AM |
#61 |
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You don't own any weapons, so make the call and tell us what happens. n/t |
oneshooter |
Sep-03-11 09:02 AM |
#65 |
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It is a big cost to them, gets passed to us, means lower sales |
DissedByBush |
Sep-06-11 10:13 PM |
#126 |
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Actually, the states want these corps. to bend over to THEIR demands. nt |
SteveM |
Aug-28-11 01:50 PM |
#14 |
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"Screw 'em" in what sense? |
Euromutt |
Sep-03-11 08:18 AM |
#62 |
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Why would you want to have your business someplace hostile to your trade? |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 02:09 PM |
#124 |
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and they say the gun manufacturers aren't ... |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 01:24 PM |
#6 |
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How does microstamping "reduce the harms associated with firearms" |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 01:33 PM |
#7 |
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It shows respect to a sports item that can kill ,just like a Boat ,Suv, or motorcycle.. |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 01:48 PM |
#13 |
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Guns already have serial numbers |
DissedByBush |
Sep-04-11 07:03 PM |
#77 |
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The Globe assumes, without evidence, micro-stamping will work. nt |
SteveM |
Aug-28-11 01:51 PM |
#15 |
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there were a couple of questions in my post |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 01:54 PM |
#16 |
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They were answered as best they could be |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 02:23 PM |
#28 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-28-11 01:34 PM |
#8 |
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It's religious with some people ,and they wonder why they worry people. |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 01:45 PM |
#12 |
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well you're a cute one, aren't you? |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 01:59 PM |
#19 |
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Good Questions ,Corporations use Guns ,Sex,and Religion to keep us |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 02:06 PM |
#23 |
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LOL. For some, "truth and beauty" have little to do with I-Net vision. n |
SteveM |
Aug-28-11 01:55 PM |
#17 |
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Fireworks are fun and firearms are necessary?? |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 01:59 PM |
#20 |
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To me, "yes," and "yes." |
SteveM |
Aug-28-11 02:24 PM |
#29 |
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Yes and Yes |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 02:25 PM |
#30 |
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from the master of bald assertions |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 01:58 PM |
#18 |
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What actually did happen to that 'water' subthread? It seemed quite civil |
petronius |
Aug-28-11 02:14 PM |
#26 |
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it had my name in it |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 02:19 PM |
#27 |
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tut, tut, iverglas |
TPaine7 |
Aug-28-11 02:46 PM |
#34 |
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I "actually think the 'water is wet' comment" |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 04:20 PM |
#40 |
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it was a very simple question |
iverglas |
Aug-28-11 02:00 PM |
#21 |
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Money. It's good PR. nt |
rrneck |
Aug-28-11 02:07 PM |
#24 |
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I tried. |
orpupilofnature57 |
Aug-28-11 02:08 PM |
#25 |
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If I manufactured an item ... |
spin |
Aug-28-11 02:37 PM |
#32 |
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Several other companies now have that same lock. |
GreenStormCloud |
Sep-04-11 11:15 PM |
#85 |
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Can we have the manufacturer's reasons for making this threat, please? |
RSillsbee |
Aug-28-11 06:44 PM |
#57 |
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Good. One of the members at my club keeps shooting my targets and messing up my scores. |
bluerum |
Aug-28-11 02:32 PM |
#31 |
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I shot at your target, it looked pathetic with no 10s or Xs |
JustABozoOnThisBus |
Sep-05-11 09:51 AM |
#121 |
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It comes down to one word - "Boycott" |
-..__... |
Aug-28-11 02:42 PM |
#33 |
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Good point. It's gunners opposed to micro-stamping -- fearing they might shoot someone and not |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 04:04 PM |
#36 |
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Ok... who talked/leaked the memo? |
-..__... |
Aug-28-11 04:14 PM |
#38 |
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You forget the bullet. Which is definitive and hard to change |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 04:16 PM |
#39 |
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You guys use those dumbed out bullets that break up so you get more organs when you shoot someone. |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 04:50 PM |
#41 |
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I rarely laugh out loud at a post, although I frequently use the smiley |
petronius |
Aug-28-11 05:07 PM |
#43 |
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I won't jump you for the bad terminology...I think you mean hollow points |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 05:21 PM |
#45 |
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Look up "dum dum" bullets boys. You apparently don't know as much as you thought. |
Hoyt |
Aug-28-11 07:24 PM |
#58 |
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Well aware of the term Dum-Dum and its roots. I assumed that is what you meant by |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 08:33 PM |
#59 |
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Strictly speaking, "dum dum" bullets are soft point .303 British |
Euromutt |
Sep-03-11 08:42 AM |
#64 |
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LOL! "Dumbed" from Dum Dum? |
Marengo |
Sep-05-11 09:18 AM |
#113 |
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Yes, I got a Wurlitzer the other day. nt |
SteveM |
Sep-03-11 02:00 PM |
#66 |
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Was it a waltz model, or full rock and roll. n/t |
oneshooter |
Sep-05-11 09:39 AM |
#118 |
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Are you really as ignorant about firearms and ammunition as you sound? |
oneshooter |
Sep-03-11 03:21 PM |
#67 |
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Yes, he is. 'Tis a puzzlement.... n/t |
PavePusher |
Sep-04-11 06:22 PM |
#73 |
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Dumbed out? Do you mean pre-fragmented? |
GreenStormCloud |
Sep-04-11 11:27 PM |
#86 |
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Another reason reloading is a great thing. |
ileus |
Aug-28-11 05:10 PM |
#44 |
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How does that play into microstamping which includes the firing pin/primer? |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 05:22 PM |
#46 |
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Probaly thinking of "laser etching"... |
-..__... |
Aug-28-11 05:30 PM |
#48 |
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The IT problem alone would be overwhelming for that approach though at least it is more viable |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Aug-28-11 05:37 PM |
#49 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-28-11 05:41 PM |
#51 |
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it ain't the guns that kill ya' |
azureblue |
Aug-28-11 06:06 PM |
#52 |
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California's micro-stamping law has been a complete failure. It is not in efffect after four years. |
slackmaster |
Sep-03-11 08:36 AM |
#63 |
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How can it be a "failure" if it is not in effect? |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 01:35 PM |
#69 |
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Which brings up an obvious question: Where HAS it worked? |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-04-11 03:36 PM |
#70 |
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Penicillin was considered ineffective before it was tried. Besides . . . . . . |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 04:20 PM |
#71 |
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It is already documented as ineffective |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-04-11 07:59 PM |
#78 |
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Where has it been proven "ineffective?" |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 08:04 PM |
#79 |
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If it can be defeated by a diamond nail file or simple wear and tear, it's ineffective |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-04-11 08:30 PM |
#81 |
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Why would you and other supposedly law-abiding toters feel the need to do that? |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 11:31 PM |
#87 |
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This is meant to stop criminals, right? |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 12:34 AM |
#106 |
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Buy the firearms you want now before big brother gets microstamping done. |
ileus |
Sep-05-11 08:05 AM |
#111 |
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Here, by an actual forensic firearms examiner: |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-04-11 10:58 PM |
#83 |
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Why would any law-abiding toter need to take countermeasures? |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 11:32 PM |
#88 |
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Dislike of big brother? |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 12:32 AM |
#105 |
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In general, I do not support any meaningless legislation - not just for 2A/gun issues. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Sep-05-11 09:46 AM |
#120 |
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It's worse than I thought |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 12:30 AM |
#103 |
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UC Davis report.. |
X_Digger |
Sep-04-11 11:03 PM |
#84 |
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Why would a law-abiding toter take a file to the microstamping technology? |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 11:34 PM |
#89 |
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Who said they would, Hoyt? |
X_Digger |
Sep-04-11 11:43 PM |
#92 |
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No answer to your questions, I see.... |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-05-11 12:13 AM |
#97 |
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Criminals don't usually buy guns -- unless they buy it before losing their "law abiding" ranking. |
Hoyt |
Sep-05-11 12:15 AM |
#98 |
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"legible enough"?!? |
X_Digger |
Sep-05-11 12:21 AM |
#101 |
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Goldilocks Gun Control, redux: |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-05-11 12:55 AM |
#109 |
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How can you call it a winning program, if it has never been tried? n/t |
oneshooter |
Sep-04-11 06:40 PM |
#74 |
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If everything had to pan out before trying it, we'd still be using logs for wheels. Be honest. |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 07:01 PM |
#76 |
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You want to make it mandatory *before* it's been tested. |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-04-11 08:28 PM |
#80 |
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No, you're advocating protecting manufacturers/purchasers of killing apparatus by blowing smoke. |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 11:36 PM |
#90 |
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This same technology should easily cross over |
Katya Mullethov |
Sep-05-11 09:25 AM |
#116 |
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I disagree with the author's contention that |
S_B_Jackson |
Sep-03-11 08:04 PM |
#68 |
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What they're not telling you |
DissedByBush |
Sep-04-11 07:00 PM |
#75 |
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IOW, it's a technological version of supply-side economics |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-04-11 08:33 PM |
#82 |
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OK, let's just keep records of who purchases bullets and put identifiers on bullet and casing. |
Hoyt |
Sep-04-11 11:37 PM |
#91 |
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One word- reloading. |
X_Digger |
Sep-04-11 11:51 PM |
#93 |
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Ah, you are already thinking of a way around being tied to a shooting. |
Hoyt |
Sep-05-11 12:05 AM |
#95 |
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I'm thinking of the logistics. If I can think of a $30 solution to your "fix" then so can criminals. |
X_Digger |
Sep-05-11 12:17 AM |
#100 |
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You just don't want to have your guns "microstampled"! |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-05-11 12:49 AM |
#108 |
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Again, why do you want to obliterate it? Criminals won't waste their time. |
Hoyt |
Sep-05-11 08:34 AM |
#112 |
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Criminals never "waste their time" taking precautionary... |
Marengo |
Sep-05-11 09:27 AM |
#117 |
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Reasonable, common-sense abrasive control will put a stop to such diabolical actions! n/t |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-05-11 12:03 PM |
#123 |
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When nail files are illegal, only criminals will have nail files n/t |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 11:27 PM |
#125 |
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Nah, we're not trying to artificially drive up costs |
DissedByBush |
Sep-04-11 11:55 PM |
#94 |
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Yep, that mugger that is behind every tree in public toters' paranoia are going to reload, cast |
Hoyt |
Sep-05-11 12:08 AM |
#96 |
  -
They won't do it themselves; they'll just buy them off some unscrupulous individual... |
Euromutt |
Sep-07-11 02:43 AM |
#128 |
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Don't bother- Our keyboard commando "knows" more about guns than published forensic examiners |
friendly_iconoclast |
Sep-05-11 12:16 AM |
#99 |
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Quite possibly, or at least I don't have my head in the clouds |
DissedByBush |
Sep-05-11 12:28 AM |
#102 |
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A prosecuting attorney I know hates, hates, HATES CSI and their ilk*.. |
X_Digger |
Sep-05-11 12:31 AM |
#104 |
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Dude, I've seen it done... |
rrneck |
Sep-05-11 12:44 AM |
#107 |
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Sure, just as soon as we keep records of who withdraws what bills from ATMs... |
krispos42 |
Sep-05-11 07:31 AM |
#110 |
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The keeping of records of ammunition was tried once. |
oneshooter |
Sep-05-11 09:45 AM |
#119 |