Straw Man
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Tue May-31-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #82 |
| 84. Your view of the UK is unrealistically rosy. |
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Disagreements tend to get resolved with a little fisticuffs followed by a nice cup of tea and no hard feelings. The UK has a problem with violent crime that goes well beyond the quaint "tea and fisticuffs" image. We're not talking about gentlemen settling their cricket disputes in a manly fashion; this is knock-'em-down, boot-to-the-head thug violence. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/ma... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-dies-fol... http://hackneycitizen.co.uk/2011/05/23/britains-younges... / http://www.siasat.com/english/news/15-yr-old-schoolboy-... http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2008/07/18/kn... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/74... |
| -Guns and the conservative mind. |
DanTex |
May-29-11 09:52 PM |
#0 |
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The gun is good. |
Ian David |
May-29-11 10:05 PM |
#1 |
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Some broadly brushed stereotypes that I don't entirely buy into. |
bluerum |
May-29-11 10:08 PM |
#2 |
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Even though there is no empirical evidence supporting it? |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 10:47 PM |
#7 |
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I can only assume you meant to say "no empirical evidence that I am aware of" |
DanTex |
May-29-11 11:19 PM |
#12 |
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So are they written by criminologists in criminology or law journals? |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 11:39 PM |
#15 |
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Here's the url |
DanTex |
May-29-11 11:48 PM |
#16 |
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I read his stuff and that is not the URL I was referring to |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 11:57 PM |
#18 |
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I bought the book. It is garbage. I will post why later today. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 07:45 AM |
#23 |
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Why bother? |
DanTex |
May-30-11 10:44 AM |
#30 |
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Personally, I would like to know what he has to add |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:19 PM |
#44 |
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Why it is garbage. Part One. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 01:54 PM |
#57 |
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Why it is garbage. Part Two |
GreenStormCloud |
May-31-11 08:49 PM |
#100 |
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How didn't it work in the UK? |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:32 AM |
#25 |
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because the murder rate and suicide rate remained the same |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 10:33 AM |
#29 |
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"because the murder rate and suicide rate remained the same" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 11:20 AM |
#33 |
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If the goal was to lower crime rate, it did not. |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 11:28 AM |
#35 |
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The goal of 1997's Amendment was to help avoid another Dunblane massacre |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 11:55 AM |
#39 |
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This is your first post that actually made sense. |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:23 PM |
#45 |
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It does not include kids playing cops and robbers. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 03:38 PM |
#64 |
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And what was the price of that avoidance? |
Atypical Liberal |
May-31-11 01:00 PM |
#92 |
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Define "always." |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 01:21 PM |
#55 |
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My bad. I was sloppy there. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 03:53 PM |
#65 |
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Still sloppy... |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 05:04 PM |
#69 |
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Guns appear to have been less restricted in the UK than they are in the United States now until 1937 |
benEzra |
May-30-11 07:57 PM |
#78 |
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Just a very different mentality towards guns in the UK |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:00 PM |
#80 |
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Not just guns---any weapon, it seems. Or at least it used to be that way. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 09:12 PM |
#81 |
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Interesting! I can relate to that, having lived in both places for many years. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:35 PM |
#82 |
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Your view of the UK is unrealistically rosy. |
Straw Man |
May-31-11 01:17 AM |
#84 |
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I really wasn't being serious about the "tea and fisticuffs" |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 12:31 PM |
#90 |
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Sorry -- I misread you. |
Straw Man |
May-31-11 01:03 PM |
#94 |
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If they played by the rules they wouldn't be criminals. nt |
rrneck |
May-30-11 11:16 PM |
#83 |
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"always been strict" ?? |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 11:48 AM |
#86 |
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True. There was little gun control and little gun use. |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 01:02 PM |
#93 |
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We've been through this dance before.. you seem to have forgotten.. |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 02:04 PM |
#95 |
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Wasn't intended to reduce crime, just gun crime. It worked. |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 07:44 PM |
#97 |
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The rare tragidy, that can be avoided, with proper mental health and alert and caring family |
gejohnston |
May-31-11 08:00 PM |
#98 |
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Unfortunately yes, it was the reason to punish those who were not to blame |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 08:41 PM |
#99 |
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It didn't lower gun crime (generally). |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 10:25 PM |
#101 |
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Hoo Boy... |
hlthe2b |
May-29-11 10:18 PM |
#3 |
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Buttered our unbuttered? |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 01:05 PM |
#54 |
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Simpleminded bullshit, and self- contradictory to boot... |
TPaine7 |
May-29-11 10:22 PM |
#4 |
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Thanks for your feedback, and I agree, more accurate would have been "almost invariably". |
DanTex |
May-29-11 10:33 PM |
#5 |
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Wow!!! |
TPaine7 |
May-29-11 10:59 PM |
#8 |
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Your supercilious condescension towards anyone who disagrees with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:18 AM |
#27 |
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Your supercilious condescension towards anyone who disagrees with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:19 AM |
#28 |
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Project much? |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 10:56 AM |
#32 |
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OK, I have a little time. I'll engage you. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 02:34 PM |
#61 |
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Easy. Don't start a dialog with an initial response of "Simpleminded bullshit!" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 04:04 PM |
#66 |
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I know this probably didn't occur to you, but I wanted to get his attention, too. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 05:15 PM |
#71 |
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Best be careful TPaine7 or you may find your post deliberately misquoted |
oneshooter |
May-30-11 05:13 PM |
#70 |
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why not just come out and say guns kill people? talk about simple minded... |
ileus |
May-29-11 10:42 PM |
#6 |
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Guns *do* kill people. That's their intended purpose. And because of that, |
SlimJimmy |
May-29-11 11:06 PM |
#11 |
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Many robberies, rapes and burglaries have also been committed by |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:56 AM |
#26 |
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And how many of those guns used in the commission of a crime were not purchased because of gun |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 02:24 PM |
#59 |
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Thou dost presume and protest too much |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 04:26 PM |
#68 |
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Give me a break. There is no, and hasn't been an explosion of violent crime due to the sale |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 05:55 PM |
#72 |
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Major comprehension fail on your part. Try reading more slowly. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 06:34 PM |
#75 |
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Thanks for typing s-l-o-w-l-y. I don't know what I would have done without that |
SlimJimmy |
May-31-11 03:06 PM |
#96 |
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What, you think that guns don't kill people? |
Zoeisright |
May-30-11 12:29 AM |
#21 |
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No...the gun is a simple machine. |
ileus |
May-30-11 08:46 PM |
#79 |
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It's usually the bullets that kill, not the gun. |
Common Sense Party |
May-31-11 12:57 PM |
#91 |
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"Broad brush stereotypes" is putting it mildly. |
Straw Man |
May-29-11 11:02 PM |
#9 |
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"I'm hard pressed to think of a better social-utilitarian definition of "good" and "bad" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:50 AM |
#31 |
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One big step to reducing gun violence would be to stop the War on Drugs ... |
spin |
May-30-11 12:03 PM |
#42 |
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I could not agree more |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 01:46 PM |
#56 |
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Not sure I understand your objection. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:58 PM |
#52 |
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Sorry I don't buy your definition of good and bad. Way too simplistic and very conservative. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 02:26 PM |
#60 |
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OK, you've raised the issue of unjust laws. That's not what we're talking about here. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 03:25 PM |
#63 |
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I love the pro-gun people getting all worked up about me stereotyping conservatives |
DanTex |
May-30-11 11:54 AM |
#38 |
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The problem I have with your post is your conflation of gun owners and conservatives. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 12:33 PM |
#48 |
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Agreed. Some of the most progressive folks I know own personal firearms. We |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 05:59 PM |
#73 |
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They're not wholly responsible. |
rrneck |
May-30-11 12:37 PM |
#49 |
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So you agree that you are stereotyping. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:43 PM |
#50 |
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Fear, aggression, dogmatism, and intolerance are all impartial to the false left/right dichotomy. |
David West |
May-29-11 11:05 PM |
#10 |
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Partisan tomfoolery. |
rrneck |
May-29-11 11:27 PM |
#13 |
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Exceptionally intelligent and accurate post. Thank you. n/t |
DWC |
May-30-11 07:21 AM |
#22 |
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Gun control is born from fear and those who fear guns and gun owners fall for gun control |
lawodevolution |
May-29-11 11:33 PM |
#14 |
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Guns empower people to extinguish ALL of each other's genuine Constitutional rights |
sharesunited |
May-29-11 11:48 PM |
#17 |
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Barbaric is being chopped up my a machete in one of you gun free paradises like |
lawodevolution |
May-30-11 12:13 AM |
#19 |
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And that's a power you want reserved for agents of the State, right? |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:27 AM |
#20 |
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Speaking of Constitutional rights, how are the negotiations going |
oneshooter |
May-30-11 11:42 AM |
#37 |
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A whole lot of gun control was and is pushed by conservatives or using conservative ideas. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 09:12 AM |
#24 |
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how would you juxtapose this with Guns and the Liberal Mind . . ? |
Tuesday Afternoon |
May-30-11 11:25 AM |
#34 |
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Re: Guns |
discntnt_irny_srcsm |
May-30-11 11:42 AM |
#36 |
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Not sure you want to be quoting David Prosser at this particular moment... |
DanTex |
May-30-11 12:03 PM |
#41 |
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"Not sure you want to be quoting David Prosser..." |
discntnt_irny_srcsm |
May-30-11 12:59 PM |
#53 |
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SOME Liberals favor gun control ... |
spin |
May-30-11 11:58 AM |
#40 |
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Gotta love the conspiracy theories |
DanTex |
May-30-11 12:09 PM |
#43 |
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And you're standing with Bush, Bennett, Guliani, Romney, and the rest. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 12:27 PM |
#46 |
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So if these three changed their minds |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:32 PM |
#47 |
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You are dodging my contention that not all liberals support draconian gun control ... |
spin |
May-30-11 12:50 PM |
#51 |
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There is no cognitive dissonance. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 02:49 PM |
#62 |
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"Invariably worse"? Not even. Try "Very rarely worse" - among good people. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 02:05 PM |
#58 |
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Not sure what point you're trying for here...there are millions of Democrats with conservative |
ergot |
May-30-11 04:09 PM |
#67 |
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What are your thoughts on using empirical evidence to determine policy? |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 06:33 PM |
#74 |
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But guns are clearly linked to higher crime rates! |
eqfan592 |
May-30-11 06:39 PM |
#76 |
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In all 50 states gun ownership is directly and positively linked* to murder rates! |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 06:43 PM |
#77 |
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Factually flawed from the start. |
AtheistCrusader |
May-31-11 10:13 AM |
#85 |
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Great Post - and most conservatives think the 2nd Amendment is ABSOLUTE |
jpak |
May-31-11 11:55 AM |
#87 |
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Ignorant? Check. |
eqfan592 |
May-31-11 12:04 PM |
#88 |
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Instead of "nuances", why not just look at STATISICAL DATA? |
Atypical Liberal |
May-31-11 12:05 PM |
#89 |
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