Starboard Tack
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Mon May-30-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
| 39. The goal of 1997's Amendment was to help avoid another Dunblane massacre |
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which has not occurred since. The overall intent of legislation since 1937 has been to keep violent crime rates low, especially in terms of death and serious injury. Statistics are often misleading, as firearm injuries in the UK include pointing (not firing) an air gun or fake gun at someone. Imagine what the stats would look like here using those criteria.
The overall crime rate has little to do with gun ownership and more to do with socio-economic factors.
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| -Guns and the conservative mind. |
DanTex |
May-29-11 09:52 PM |
#0 |
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The gun is good. |
Ian David |
May-29-11 10:05 PM |
#1 |
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Some broadly brushed stereotypes that I don't entirely buy into. |
bluerum |
May-29-11 10:08 PM |
#2 |
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Even though there is no empirical evidence supporting it? |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 10:47 PM |
#7 |
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I can only assume you meant to say "no empirical evidence that I am aware of" |
DanTex |
May-29-11 11:19 PM |
#12 |
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So are they written by criminologists in criminology or law journals? |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 11:39 PM |
#15 |
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Here's the url |
DanTex |
May-29-11 11:48 PM |
#16 |
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I read his stuff and that is not the URL I was referring to |
gejohnston |
May-29-11 11:57 PM |
#18 |
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I bought the book. It is garbage. I will post why later today. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 07:45 AM |
#23 |
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Why bother? |
DanTex |
May-30-11 10:44 AM |
#30 |
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Personally, I would like to know what he has to add |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:19 PM |
#44 |
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Why it is garbage. Part One. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 01:54 PM |
#57 |
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Why it is garbage. Part Two |
GreenStormCloud |
May-31-11 08:49 PM |
#100 |
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How didn't it work in the UK? |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:32 AM |
#25 |
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because the murder rate and suicide rate remained the same |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 10:33 AM |
#29 |
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"because the murder rate and suicide rate remained the same" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 11:20 AM |
#33 |
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If the goal was to lower crime rate, it did not. |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 11:28 AM |
#35 |
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The goal of 1997's Amendment was to help avoid another Dunblane massacre |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 11:55 AM |
#39 |
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This is your first post that actually made sense. |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:23 PM |
#45 |
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It does not include kids playing cops and robbers. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 03:38 PM |
#64 |
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And what was the price of that avoidance? |
Atypical Liberal |
May-31-11 01:00 PM |
#92 |
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Define "always." |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 01:21 PM |
#55 |
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My bad. I was sloppy there. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 03:53 PM |
#65 |
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Still sloppy... |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 05:04 PM |
#69 |
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Guns appear to have been less restricted in the UK than they are in the United States now until 1937 |
benEzra |
May-30-11 07:57 PM |
#78 |
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Just a very different mentality towards guns in the UK |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:00 PM |
#80 |
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Not just guns---any weapon, it seems. Or at least it used to be that way. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 09:12 PM |
#81 |
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Interesting! I can relate to that, having lived in both places for many years. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:35 PM |
#82 |
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Your view of the UK is unrealistically rosy. |
Straw Man |
May-31-11 01:17 AM |
#84 |
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I really wasn't being serious about the "tea and fisticuffs" |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 12:31 PM |
#90 |
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Sorry -- I misread you. |
Straw Man |
May-31-11 01:03 PM |
#94 |
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If they played by the rules they wouldn't be criminals. nt |
rrneck |
May-30-11 11:16 PM |
#83 |
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"always been strict" ?? |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 11:48 AM |
#86 |
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True. There was little gun control and little gun use. |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 01:02 PM |
#93 |
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We've been through this dance before.. you seem to have forgotten.. |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 02:04 PM |
#95 |
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Wasn't intended to reduce crime, just gun crime. It worked. |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 07:44 PM |
#97 |
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The rare tragidy, that can be avoided, with proper mental health and alert and caring family |
gejohnston |
May-31-11 08:00 PM |
#98 |
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Unfortunately yes, it was the reason to punish those who were not to blame |
Starboard Tack |
May-31-11 08:41 PM |
#99 |
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It didn't lower gun crime (generally). |
X_Digger |
May-31-11 10:25 PM |
#101 |
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Hoo Boy... |
hlthe2b |
May-29-11 10:18 PM |
#3 |
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Buttered our unbuttered? |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 01:05 PM |
#54 |
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Simpleminded bullshit, and self- contradictory to boot... |
TPaine7 |
May-29-11 10:22 PM |
#4 |
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Thanks for your feedback, and I agree, more accurate would have been "almost invariably". |
DanTex |
May-29-11 10:33 PM |
#5 |
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Wow!!! |
TPaine7 |
May-29-11 10:59 PM |
#8 |
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Your supercilious condescension towards anyone who disagrees with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:18 AM |
#27 |
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Your supercilious condescension towards anyone who disagrees with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:19 AM |
#28 |
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Project much? |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 10:56 AM |
#32 |
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OK, I have a little time. I'll engage you. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 02:34 PM |
#61 |
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Easy. Don't start a dialog with an initial response of "Simpleminded bullshit!" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 04:04 PM |
#66 |
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I know this probably didn't occur to you, but I wanted to get his attention, too. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 05:15 PM |
#71 |
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Best be careful TPaine7 or you may find your post deliberately misquoted |
oneshooter |
May-30-11 05:13 PM |
#70 |
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why not just come out and say guns kill people? talk about simple minded... |
ileus |
May-29-11 10:42 PM |
#6 |
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Guns *do* kill people. That's their intended purpose. And because of that, |
SlimJimmy |
May-29-11 11:06 PM |
#11 |
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Many robberies, rapes and burglaries have also been committed by |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 09:56 AM |
#26 |
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And how many of those guns used in the commission of a crime were not purchased because of gun |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 02:24 PM |
#59 |
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Thou dost presume and protest too much |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 04:26 PM |
#68 |
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Give me a break. There is no, and hasn't been an explosion of violent crime due to the sale |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 05:55 PM |
#72 |
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Major comprehension fail on your part. Try reading more slowly. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 06:34 PM |
#75 |
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Thanks for typing s-l-o-w-l-y. I don't know what I would have done without that |
SlimJimmy |
May-31-11 03:06 PM |
#96 |
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What, you think that guns don't kill people? |
Zoeisright |
May-30-11 12:29 AM |
#21 |
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No...the gun is a simple machine. |
ileus |
May-30-11 08:46 PM |
#79 |
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It's usually the bullets that kill, not the gun. |
Common Sense Party |
May-31-11 12:57 PM |
#91 |
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"Broad brush stereotypes" is putting it mildly. |
Straw Man |
May-29-11 11:02 PM |
#9 |
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"I'm hard pressed to think of a better social-utilitarian definition of "good" and "bad" |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 10:50 AM |
#31 |
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One big step to reducing gun violence would be to stop the War on Drugs ... |
spin |
May-30-11 12:03 PM |
#42 |
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I could not agree more |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 01:46 PM |
#56 |
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Not sure I understand your objection. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:58 PM |
#52 |
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Sorry I don't buy your definition of good and bad. Way too simplistic and very conservative. |
Starboard Tack |
May-30-11 02:26 PM |
#60 |
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OK, you've raised the issue of unjust laws. That's not what we're talking about here. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 03:25 PM |
#63 |
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I love the pro-gun people getting all worked up about me stereotyping conservatives |
DanTex |
May-30-11 11:54 AM |
#38 |
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The problem I have with your post is your conflation of gun owners and conservatives. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 12:33 PM |
#48 |
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Agreed. Some of the most progressive folks I know own personal firearms. We |
SlimJimmy |
May-30-11 05:59 PM |
#73 |
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They're not wholly responsible. |
rrneck |
May-30-11 12:37 PM |
#49 |
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So you agree that you are stereotyping. |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:43 PM |
#50 |
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Fear, aggression, dogmatism, and intolerance are all impartial to the false left/right dichotomy. |
David West |
May-29-11 11:05 PM |
#10 |
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Partisan tomfoolery. |
rrneck |
May-29-11 11:27 PM |
#13 |
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Exceptionally intelligent and accurate post. Thank you. n/t |
DWC |
May-30-11 07:21 AM |
#22 |
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Gun control is born from fear and those who fear guns and gun owners fall for gun control |
lawodevolution |
May-29-11 11:33 PM |
#14 |
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Guns empower people to extinguish ALL of each other's genuine Constitutional rights |
sharesunited |
May-29-11 11:48 PM |
#17 |
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Barbaric is being chopped up my a machete in one of you gun free paradises like |
lawodevolution |
May-30-11 12:13 AM |
#19 |
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And that's a power you want reserved for agents of the State, right? |
Straw Man |
May-30-11 12:27 AM |
#20 |
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Speaking of Constitutional rights, how are the negotiations going |
oneshooter |
May-30-11 11:42 AM |
#37 |
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A whole lot of gun control was and is pushed by conservatives or using conservative ideas. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 09:12 AM |
#24 |
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how would you juxtapose this with Guns and the Liberal Mind . . ? |
Tuesday Afternoon |
May-30-11 11:25 AM |
#34 |
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Re: Guns |
discntnt_irny_srcsm |
May-30-11 11:42 AM |
#36 |
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Not sure you want to be quoting David Prosser at this particular moment... |
DanTex |
May-30-11 12:03 PM |
#41 |
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"Not sure you want to be quoting David Prosser..." |
discntnt_irny_srcsm |
May-30-11 12:59 PM |
#53 |
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SOME Liberals favor gun control ... |
spin |
May-30-11 11:58 AM |
#40 |
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Gotta love the conspiracy theories |
DanTex |
May-30-11 12:09 PM |
#43 |
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And you're standing with Bush, Bennett, Guliani, Romney, and the rest. |
benEzra |
May-30-11 12:27 PM |
#46 |
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So if these three changed their minds |
gejohnston |
May-30-11 12:32 PM |
#47 |
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You are dodging my contention that not all liberals support draconian gun control ... |
spin |
May-30-11 12:50 PM |
#51 |
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There is no cognitive dissonance. |
TPaine7 |
May-30-11 02:49 PM |
#62 |
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"Invariably worse"? Not even. Try "Very rarely worse" - among good people. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-30-11 02:05 PM |
#58 |
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Not sure what point you're trying for here...there are millions of Democrats with conservative |
ergot |
May-30-11 04:09 PM |
#67 |
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What are your thoughts on using empirical evidence to determine policy? |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 06:33 PM |
#74 |
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But guns are clearly linked to higher crime rates! |
eqfan592 |
May-30-11 06:39 PM |
#76 |
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In all 50 states gun ownership is directly and positively linked* to murder rates! |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 06:43 PM |
#77 |
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Factually flawed from the start. |
AtheistCrusader |
May-31-11 10:13 AM |
#85 |
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Great Post - and most conservatives think the 2nd Amendment is ABSOLUTE |
jpak |
May-31-11 11:55 AM |
#87 |
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Ignorant? Check. |
eqfan592 |
May-31-11 12:04 PM |
#88 |
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Instead of "nuances", why not just look at STATISICAL DATA? |
Atypical Liberal |
May-31-11 12:05 PM |
#89 |
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