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Reply #73: There is a bright line between stuff and life [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. There is a bright line between stuff and life
Repeated victimization by theft should prompt some anti-theft strategies and police attention (its sad but true that in many places in the US the police aren't very responsive -- but that is a problem to fix with progressive policies not an excuse to lock and load).

If you think your life is in danger and that either you've tried non-violent methods or don't have time to evaluate those, then of course you have a right to defend yourself. The ethics of that are clear. I reject the Castle Doctrine idea that you shouldn't have to try avoidance (but admit that in a home invasion situation with potential dependents this is impossible).

We need, as a society, to more regularly reinforce that violence should ALWAYS be a last resort and that ANY life is more valuable than property. If we fail to do so we are developing a society where life is cheap and short.
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  -Some guns being used to shoot burglars GreenStormCloud  Apr-24-11 08:23 PM   #0 
  - you do know that  MyrnaLoy   Apr-24-11 08:27 PM   #1 
  - You do know that you have no evidence to such. Yet there is a plethora  Bold Lib   Apr-24-11 08:31 PM   #6 
  - Have you bothered to read the criticism of Lott?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:41 PM   #15 
     - The estimates of how many times firearms are used for self defense are all over the place ...  spin   Apr-24-11 09:17 PM   #26 
     - Yes, the ubituity of these studies should tell you something..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:32 PM   #31 
        - Let's cut the lowest estimate of 108,000 DGUs a year and say  spin   Apr-24-11 10:23 PM   #50 
           - Ok, you're on track. Now throw gun deaths due to ...  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:27 PM   #51 
           - Suicide is an entirely separate issue ...  spin   Apr-24-11 10:59 PM   #68 
           - Did you look up the stats?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 11:05 PM   #70 
              - Japan has very few firearms ...  spin   Apr-25-11 12:04 AM   #80 
              - What are some effective, nonlethal methods of defense? n/t  NewMoonTherian   Apr-26-11 08:30 AM   #107 
           - It does not matter where the balance is.  Atypical Liberal   Apr-25-11 09:55 AM   #86 
           - Rates of suicide are irrelevant to firearm ownership.  Bold Lib   Apr-25-11 05:28 PM   #93 
           - The only statistics I care about  DWC   Apr-25-11 07:03 AM   #82 
     - Yes I have. And they rely on false information to try and smear Lott's work.  Bold Lib   Apr-25-11 05:26 PM   #92 
  - Almost all of your stories will be with guns that are already illegal.  GreenStormCloud   Apr-24-11 08:32 PM   #7 
  - or Gary Kleck  gejohnston   Apr-24-11 09:30 PM   #29 
  - And for every "good shooting" story....  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:34 PM   #53 
  - You do know that empirical statements don't become true merely by stating them emphatically? nt  WatsonT   Apr-26-11 09:22 AM   #110 
  - If you want to go that route  Drale   Apr-24-11 08:28 PM   #2 
  - Yeah, but SOME guns are used to kill children burglars! Oh, wait... n/t  Ian David   Apr-24-11 08:30 PM   #4 
  - Yeah, that VPC study is full of children being shot. Children shot in  Bold Lib   Apr-24-11 08:32 PM   #8 
  - Some. Last year it was 225.  GreenStormCloud   Apr-24-11 08:37 PM   #12 
     - yeah what's a few hundred dead children here or there, we have rights to protect.  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:40 PM   #14 
        - An eighteen year old gang banger is not a child...  spin   Apr-24-11 10:30 PM   #52 
  - Using deadly force to protect insured property. You think that's ethical?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:28 PM   #3 
  - +1 n/t  Bonhomme Richard   Apr-24-11 08:30 PM   #5 
  - People risking their lives over property. You think that is wise?  Bold Lib   Apr-24-11 08:34 PM   #9 
  - No very unwise...of the owner. What if the theif had armed confederates?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:00 PM   #19 
     - But do you think people risking their lives over property is wise? You did not answer.  Bold Lib   Apr-25-11 05:32 PM   #94 
  - Yes, in many cases.  GreenStormCloud   Apr-24-11 08:35 PM   #10 
  - So your car is worth a human life? Really?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:38 PM   #13 
  - The car thieves apparently thought so, yes?  krispos42   Apr-24-11 09:06 PM   #21 
  - So you're willing to be executioner for some hypothetical scenario..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:12 PM   #23 
  - "perhaps their socio-economic condition makes this calcuation rational"  krispos42   Apr-24-11 09:43 PM   #35 
  - Right, And in the absence of backstory  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:48 PM   #36 
     - I never said I'd do it.  krispos42   Apr-24-11 09:52 PM   #38 
        - We don't have a backstory or an epilogue..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:58 PM   #39 
           - No, only a small percentage of career criminals turn to murder  krispos42   Apr-24-11 10:35 PM   #54 
           - An effective police force is needed..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:39 PM   #57 
              - Well, that's just good common sense  krispos42   Apr-24-11 11:04 PM   #69 
              - There is a bright line between stuff and life  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 11:12 PM   #73 
                 - The problem with wanting a single human life to be worth any amount of physical property...  krispos42   Apr-25-11 09:52 PM   #103 
              - Just "stuff" that I use to make a living for my family.  oneshooter   Apr-25-11 06:25 PM   #96 
           - I'm sure Joey and Mikey are only going to steal a car once....  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:41 PM   #59 
              - yeah, they must be human filth.. let's kill em..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:44 PM   #61 
                 - Who said anything about kill?  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 11:10 PM   #71 
  - Perhaps you should look up the definition of "execution" as it does not apply  Bold Lib   Apr-25-11 05:36 PM   #95 
  - "Many who live deserve death, and many who die deserve life  Drale   Apr-24-11 09:19 PM   #27 
     - That is very true  krispos42   Apr-24-11 09:48 PM   #37 
     - +1  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:01 PM   #41 
  - It is entirely the criminals' decision. Some choose... poorly. n/t  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:39 PM   #56 
  - What if it's the only work truck of an independent skilled tradesman?  MicaelS   Apr-25-11 01:17 PM   #87 
  - A good chance you will spend more in time and maybe lawyer fees than the car is worth. n-t  Logical   Apr-24-11 10:10 PM   #49 
  - So an arsonist is pouring gasoline all around your insured  virgogal   Apr-24-11 08:36 PM   #11 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-24-11 08:47 PM   #16 
  - So a monetary loss justifies killing a human being? You REALLY think that is ethical?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:54 PM   #17 
     - Yes  Travis_0004   Apr-24-11 09:07 PM   #22 
     - It is amazing how your scenarios spiral...  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:14 PM   #24 
        - Ok, fine  Travis_0004   Apr-24-11 09:31 PM   #30 
           - Why not just tell them the police are on the way?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:38 PM   #33 
              - I will tell them the police are on the way  Travis_0004   Apr-24-11 10:00 PM   #40 
                 - So you leave the safety of your home, to confront a thief with a gun..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:04 PM   #44 
                    - No,  Travis_0004   Apr-24-11 10:06 PM   #46 
                    - blame it on Bush, so you're the type that thinks we're too hard on GW?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:09 PM   #47 
                       - What would you do? You have yet to answer a direct question. n/t  oneshooter   Apr-25-11 06:35 PM   #97 
                    - Why are you being an apologist for criminals?  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:45 PM   #62 
                       - yeah, lets shoot em! Criminals are animals.  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:49 PM   #66 
                          - Not my fault if criminals hold my life cheap.  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 11:12 PM   #72 
     - I often have to lend financial support to other family members  sylvi   Apr-24-11 09:28 PM   #28 
     - Absolutely I think it's ethical...  MicaelS   Apr-25-11 01:21 PM   #88 
  - Surely you can see the difference between the types of acts involved..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 08:57 PM   #18 
  - Arson of an occupied structure  gravity556   Apr-25-11 08:10 AM   #83 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-24-11 09:01 PM   #20 
  - Glad you've given this such deep ethical thought.  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:16 PM   #25 
  - And this folks, is where CCW holders get a bad image! n-t  Logical   Apr-24-11 10:09 PM   #48 
     - Dang fuckin right. WTF is in your car worth shooting someone in the back -- pack of gum.  Hoyt   Apr-24-11 10:46 PM   #63 
        - We don't claim that guy! Nt  Logical   Apr-24-11 11:45 PM   #79 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-25-11 02:57 PM   #89 
  - Listen up...I'm insured  Upton   Apr-24-11 09:37 PM   #32 
  - Because it is STUFF! Simple, replaceable, material crap  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 09:41 PM   #34 
  - Because I don't want to shoot someone unless my life or another is in danger. Very simple....  Logical   Apr-24-11 10:04 PM   #42 
  - Someone invades my home..  Upton   Apr-25-11 08:17 AM   #84 
     - I agree, but if I was pulling in the driveway and no one was home and the guy had my.....  Logical   Apr-25-11 09:08 AM   #85 
  - Shooting another person is a life changing experience ...  spin   Apr-24-11 10:48 PM   #65 
  - It is absolutely ethical.  Hangingon   Apr-24-11 10:04 PM   #43 
  - Argument? evidence?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:05 PM   #45 
  - Does your insurance pay 100% replacement costs?  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:38 PM   #55 
     - Wow your deductible and emotional distress is worth a human life..  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:41 PM   #58 
        - I, as a law-abiding Citizen, am more important than a criminal. n/t  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 10:47 PM   #64 
           - Really? So do you have a level of personhood grading system?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 10:52 PM   #67 
              - Extrapolate from zero, much?  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 11:14 PM   #74 
              - So their life is worth less?  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 11:17 PM   #75 
                 - Not at all.  PavePusher   Apr-24-11 11:37 PM   #77 
              - So, then  one-eyed fat man   Apr-24-11 11:36 PM   #76 
              - yeah, because i don't think lethal violence is justified to protect  whoneedstickets   Apr-24-11 11:40 PM   #78 
                 - Well, at least I can be sarcastic  one-eyed fat man   Apr-25-11 05:46 AM   #81 
                 - lethal force is justified  NRA4EVR   Apr-26-11 07:59 AM   #106 
              - A thief is a small child, if you allow him to misbehave with out  oneshooter   Apr-25-11 06:51 PM   #98 
                 - Oh thanks for the teaching em a lesson. Shoot unarmed guy in the back to teach them a lesson. Sick!  Hoyt   Apr-25-11 10:18 PM   #105 
                    - Who said anything about "Shoot unarmed guy in the back"?  PavePusher   Apr-26-11 08:36 AM   #108 
                       - I believe that he is projecting.  oneshooter   Apr-26-11 09:49 AM   #111 
  - Yep, let's shoot someone stealing a pink flamingo off your lawn.  Hoyt   Apr-24-11 10:44 PM   #60 
     - You are pathetic  rl6214   Apr-25-11 03:02 PM   #90 
        - No, you are pathetic if you use a gun to shoot an unarmed car robber in back.  Hoyt   Apr-25-11 05:19 PM   #91 
           - He won't be stealing anymore cars. n/t  oneshooter   Apr-25-11 06:55 PM   #99 
              - That's why you shouldn't carry. He was breaking into car, not stealing it. If can't assess situation  Hoyt   Apr-25-11 08:20 PM   #100 
              - Breaking into/stealing is all the same. It's not his property. n/t  oneshooter   Apr-25-11 08:51 PM   #102 
                 - Judge, Jury and Executioner -- you ain't. He was not a threat to the gun toter.  Hoyt   Apr-25-11 10:12 PM   #104 
                    - You sure seem to make a lot of assumptions about criminals and legal gun owners.  PavePusher   Apr-26-11 08:38 AM   #109 
              - You've got that right. (Interesting thread).  virgogal   Apr-25-11 08:28 PM   #101 

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