ClassWarrior
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Sat Feb-12-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #127 |
| 133. Oh yeah, that'll bring the lives back. |
| -Why do gun lovers claim to be "law-abiding," yet use criminal activity to... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:23 AM |
#0 |
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I'm sorry, but I find your OP nonsensical. |
Common Sense Party |
Feb-12-11 11:25 AM |
#1 |
  -
So-called "law-abiding" g.o.s want to get rid of the laws - and use criminal activity to justify it. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:30 AM |
#5 |
| -
Is there something illegal about wanting to change laws? |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 11:49 AM |
#12 |
| -
Is there something moral about using criminal activity to justify the change? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:53 AM |
#14 |
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uh, well, the impetus for ANY change or addition to the law books is some type of activity, criminal |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 12:20 PM |
#23 |
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So you're saying "law-abiding" g.o.s do empathize with criminals? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:22 PM |
#25 |
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okay, a few points: |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 12:24 PM |
#27 |
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Apologies. I edited the "movement" comment to clarify my point. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:25 PM |
#28 |
| -
Much appreciated... |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 01:20 PM |
#52 |
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Your argument really doesn't follow. |
MineralMan |
Feb-12-11 11:27 AM |
#2 |
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Yeah, I don't know why I expected anyone here to "understand" it here. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:29 AM |
#3 |
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The gun forum is best left to the gunnies |
liberal N proud |
Feb-12-11 11:30 AM |
#4 |
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Actually, I'm not a "gungeon" guy. But your argument doesn't |
MineralMan |
Feb-12-11 11:46 AM |
#10 |
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Or, perhaps you need to re-examine your premise |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 11:51 AM |
#13 |
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True. Here's a strawman on a logical path. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:56 AM |
#17 |
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That's all snarky bad and everything...but |
ixion |
Feb-12-11 12:21 PM |
# |
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I think they are saying most gun owners are law-abiding, but violent criminals are not law abiding. |
ZombieHorde |
Feb-12-11 11:35 AM |
#6 |
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Well, apparently they're reluctantly "law-abiding" since they don't want laws. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:38 AM |
#8 |
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Almost all gun owners want gun regulations. The argument is about which regulations are appropriate. |
ZombieHorde |
Feb-12-11 11:45 AM |
#9 |
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Wow, how generous of them. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:46 AM |
#11 |
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If I wanted to restrict gun rights, I would examine the regulations gun advocates generally agreed |
ZombieHorde |
Feb-12-11 11:55 AM |
#15 |
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That's sensible and responsible. And no justification by criminal activity necessary. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 11:58 AM |
#18 |
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You're right, to an extent. |
NewMoonTherian |
Feb-12-11 06:20 PM |
#165 |
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Here! Here! - if you do not abide by the law - you are a law breaker |
jpak |
Feb-12-11 11:36 AM |
#7 |
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Ever brought beer to a college party with under-21s present? |
Euromutt |
Feb-12-11 05:46 PM |
#157 |
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WTF? |
here_is_to_hope |
Feb-12-11 11:56 AM |
#16 |
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I respect that right, especially the "well-regulated" part. Words matter. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:10 PM |
#20 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 12:23 PM |
#26 |
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This has been clarified time and time again. |
armueller2001 |
Feb-12-11 01:22 PM |
#53 |
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I'm sure it's an intentional effort to confuse the issue as it has been said time |
Hoopla Phil |
Feb-12-11 01:35 PM |
#64 |
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Well regulated - of like and kind as the "regulars". You knew that right? |
Hoopla Phil |
Feb-12-11 01:32 PM |
#61 |
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Yes, words matter. So does understanding what they mean. |
beevul |
Feb-12-11 02:32 PM |
#110 |
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We are doing that to point out that certain laws are ineffect in achieving |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-12-11 12:09 PM |
#19 |
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Because you say so? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:14 PM |
#21 |
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By design, a "gun free zone" fails a logical test. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 12:33 PM |
#32 |
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You're missing most of the argument you are trying to represent. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 12:16 PM |
#22 |
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So you're saying you want to tote your guns where the criminals do so you can have shoot-outs? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:21 PM |
#24 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 12:27 PM |
#29 |
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No, actually I'm guessing this is the core of the entire matter. If "the good people" are... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:39 PM |
#33 |
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Of course, once everyone is carrying guns with few restrictions, just who gets to decide... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:42 PM |
#35 |
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Your guesses are pretty bad. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 12:49 PM |
#41 |
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That's exactly your point in post #32. I quote... "If a criminal has a gun..." |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:51 PM |
#43 |
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One modification-- can't protect *themselves*. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 01:09 PM |
#50 |
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Ahhh, so it's a selfish motive? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:33 PM |
#63 |
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If he claims his motives are self protection... why is that selfish? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 01:36 PM |
#66 |
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It's called "speak with forked tongue" |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 01:40 PM |
#69 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 01:45 PM |
#71 |
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He said he has no interest in protecting the public, just himself. And he said he's for shootouts. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:46 PM |
#73 |
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Did you know a police officer has no duty to protect anyone who is not held in their custody? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 02:17 PM |
#96 |
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It's called self-defense.. not public-defense. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 01:39 PM |
#67 |
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NOTHING in any of my post said anything about carrying firearms or shootouts. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 12:41 PM |
#34 |
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That's exactly your point in post #32. I quote... "If a criminal has a gun..." |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:44 PM |
#37 |
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Perhaps you should respond to the correct subthreads so that readers know what you are referring to. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 12:55 PM |
#45 |
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Ahhh... my value system doesn't change depending on the subthread. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:57 PM |
#47 |
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That wasn't my point. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 01:14 PM |
#51 |
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So if the law does no harm, what do you care? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:26 PM |
#55 |
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Useless != 'does no harm' n/t |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 01:29 PM |
#56 |
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Okay, explain. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:30 PM |
#58 |
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Oh, nevermind. You already explained. You're for the freedom to shootout. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:31 PM |
#59 |
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See response #39. n/t |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 01:32 PM |
#60 |
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So if the law has no benefit, why do you care? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 01:35 PM |
#65 |
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Answer my question first. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:41 PM |
#70 |
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I did... "Waste of taxpayer time & money" |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 01:45 PM |
#72 |
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Wow, is that all you got? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:48 PM |
#75 |
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"I don't care if the law has no benefit." -- saved that one for later. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 01:50 PM |
#76 |
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In a free society, laws and restrictions should be justified. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 01:59 PM |
#80 |
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The goal is to end senseless death and injury. Show me that a shootout is more effective at that... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:01 PM |
#82 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 02:12 PM |
#91 |
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Exactly. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:16 PM |
#95 |
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Au contraire, mon frère |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 02:28 PM |
#104 |
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Links please. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:31 PM |
#108 |
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Here. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 03:12 PM |
#122 |
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Here are some examples: |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-12-11 05:27 PM |
#150 |
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Isolated incidents. Show me some statistics comparing with and without. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:28 PM |
#152 |
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You are moving the goalposts. |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-13-11 08:54 AM |
#169 |
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And please don't put words in my mouth. You asked, "If the law has no benefit..." |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:04 PM |
#85 |
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So we are in agreement... |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 02:15 PM |
#94 |
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I don't necessarily agree that so-called "feel good" laws have no benefits. But I agree that... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:19 PM |
#98 |
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You're conflating two groups. Non Sequitur -- it does not follow. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 12:29 PM |
#30 |
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Why are the ones who are "scrupulous in following the law" so zealous in wanting to vaporize it? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:31 PM |
#31 |
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Because I, who follows the law |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 12:42 PM |
#36 |
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So once there are no laws, how will I know who are the lawbreakers and who aren't? Or am I just... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:48 PM |
#40 |
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Because the other group is not likely to follow the law.. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 12:46 PM |
#39 |
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So you want the freedom to have shootouts? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:49 PM |
#42 |
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I have the freedom to attempt to resist violent attack. |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 12:53 PM |
#44 |
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I'll take that as a "yes." |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 12:55 PM |
#46 |
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Yes, that was a yes, but not using the perjorative terms you attempted to use to frame it. n/t |
X_Digger |
Feb-12-11 12:57 PM |
#48 |
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So you want me to meekly submit to being murdered by a criminal? N/T |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-12-11 05:01 PM |
#140 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 12:45 PM |
#38 |
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Your post makes no sense |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 01:09 PM |
#49 |
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I've never seen children get slaughtered in an ankle weight shootout. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:25 PM |
#54 |
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Not the point |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 01:30 PM |
#57 |
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But why is it stupid? If it's stupid, you shouldn't have to resort... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:33 PM |
#62 |
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It is stupid because |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 01:48 PM |
#74 |
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I'm not the one who brings up criminals in these arguments. Re-read my OP. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:51 PM |
#78 |
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Re-read your post #62 in which you said I make moral common ground with criminals |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 02:03 PM |
#84 |
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I didn't say you necessarily do. I said many of your fellow travelers do. Someone brings up... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:11 PM |
#89 |
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Would you care to cite examples of where someone has said that? |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 02:17 PM |
#97 |
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I saw it here this morning. The thread is still on the Guns page, above the fold. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:20 PM |
#99 |
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I take that back. It has one rec. Someone had to unrec it, apparently to hide it. Soon... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:25 PM |
#102 |
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Nah. You provide the link. That isn't against the rules. Calling out by name is |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 02:29 PM |
#106 |
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I already know your interpretation of it is different than mine, but that post is where... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:33 PM |
#111 |
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"Accurate REphrasing" - Is that like a movie that's "Based" on real life events |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 02:39 PM |
#113 |
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It's stupid because it doesn't work. nt |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 02:15 PM |
#93 |
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Proof? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:22 PM |
#100 |
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Here's one... |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 02:31 PM |
#109 |
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Okay, show proof of how that's more lethal than a campus full of gun toters. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:36 PM |
#112 |
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C'mon... Tell us how several thousand armed-to-the-teeth teenagers... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:42 PM |
#114 |
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Hell, tell us how several armed-to-the-teeth teenagers... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:45 PM |
#117 |
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I don't know that they would. |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 03:03 PM |
#121 |
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Really? That's the subject of my OP? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:24 PM |
#134 |
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Granted, the actual subject of the OP is difficult to determine. |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 05:21 PM |
#147 |
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Why do you think there would be several thousand? |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 03:00 PM |
#120 |
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Teens can't get CCW permits. You FAIL again. N/T |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-12-11 05:08 PM |
#142 |
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How many "gun toters" constitutes a "campus full"? nt |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 02:43 PM |
#115 |
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C'mon |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 03:13 PM |
#123 |
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Anti's don't dig up statistics. They make an assertion then want others |
shadowrider |
Feb-12-11 03:16 PM |
#124 |
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Yeah, blind faith is like that. nt |
rrneck |
Feb-12-11 03:18 PM |
#125 |
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By the way, that's exactly the point. There are so many flaws with your analogy... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:40 PM |
#68 |
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My analogy has nothing to do with body count |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 01:50 PM |
#77 |
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Then why doesn't one? Why don't many? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 01:52 PM |
#79 |
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Actually, the facts prove you are way wrong. |
DonP |
Feb-12-11 02:02 PM |
#83 |
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The problem with your arguments through all of this is |
YllwFvr |
Feb-12-11 02:11 PM |
#90 |
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Proof? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:14 PM |
#92 |
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Of charges being dropped? |
YllwFvr |
Feb-12-11 02:27 PM |
#103 |
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That the laws dont do anything. Why are you avoiding the question? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:30 PM |
#107 |
| -
Ah I mistook what you were questioning |
YllwFvr |
Feb-12-11 02:43 PM |
#116 |
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Some links would help. And why take out the "accidents" and suicides? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:48 PM |
#118 |
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05 there were 10k homicides by handgun |
YllwFvr |
Feb-12-11 02:59 PM |
#119 |
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Yeah, but isn't a proliferation of unregulated guns responsible for "accidents" like shooting... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:08 PM |
#128 |
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How can something which does not exist... |
beevul |
Feb-12-11 04:16 PM |
#130 |
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You know what I'm trying to ask. Quit feigning confusion. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:20 PM |
#131 |
| -
Hmmm? |
beevul |
Feb-12-11 04:33 PM |
#138 |
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You are wrong. Greatest body counts are from single shooters. |
GreenStormCloud |
Feb-12-11 05:13 PM |
#144 |
| -
That is demonstrably untrue |
kudzu22 |
Feb-12-11 05:34 PM |
#155 |
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What you are saying is that if someone obeys a gun law but wants to go through the |
lawodevolution |
Feb-12-11 02:00 PM |
#81 |
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So once there's no more laws, who gets to judge who's the bad guys and... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:06 PM |
#87 |
| -
Murder will always be illegal |
lawodevolution |
Feb-12-11 02:22 PM |
#101 |
| -
Really? What about if you're carrying your legally-owned gun and you can... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:28 PM |
#105 |
| -
By "get away with" I assume you mean "judged by a jury of your peers" |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 03:32 PM |
#127 |
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Oh yeah, that'll bring the lives back. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:21 PM |
#133 |
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So courts and trials are now meaningless because the acions of the accused can never be undone? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 05:28 PM |
#151 |
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No, that's the logic many of your fellow travelers use for eliminating gun laws. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:30 PM |
#153 |
| -
There are plenty of effective gun laws. Do you have any links showing "my side's" logic? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 05:53 PM |
#158 |
| -
That's true, I'm sure, and I appreciate it. Take nadinbrzezinski, for instance. She's... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 06:15 PM |
#164 |
| -
Do you really think... |
beevul |
Feb-12-11 03:29 PM |
#126 |
| -
I see any reasonable call for responsible, sensible regulation pissed on into oblivion. Every time. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:28 PM |
#135 |
| -
And to get back to the OP, it's often justified with criminal activity. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:30 PM |
#136 |
| -
Perhaps calling something reasonable does not make something reasonable. |
beevul |
Feb-12-11 04:49 PM |
#139 |
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Pick any thread on this forum. You'll admit that some regulation is sensible and responsible, right? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:26 PM |
#149 |
| -
I have seen few (1) reasonable proposal. |
beevul |
Feb-13-11 12:25 AM |
#168 |
| -
Face it. The number of regulations you consider reasonable is so small as to be statistically... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-13-11 05:05 PM |
#174 |
| -
Thank you... |
beevul |
Feb-13-11 06:02 PM |
#175 |
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Please tell us what are"responsible, sensible regulation " I would like to know. n/t |
oneshooter |
Feb-12-11 08:50 PM |
#166 |
| -
If you don't care that laws can have no benefit... why do you care about the laws at all? |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Feb-12-11 02:05 PM |
#86 |
| -
That's quite the opposite of what I said, and you know that because you posed the question. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 02:07 PM |
#88 |
| -
Non-Gonococcal Urethritis? North Greenville University? Naval Station Norfolk? |
Euromutt |
Feb-12-11 04:09 PM |
#129 |
| -
Haha. Heard 'em all before. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 04:21 PM |
#132 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-12-11 04:31 PM |
#137 |
| -
Given your confrontational attitude in this thread... |
Euromutt |
Feb-12-11 05:06 PM |
#141 |
| -
I've only responded in kind. In most cases I've been extremely polite. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:20 PM |
#146 |
| -
You established the tone of hostility in your OP |
Marengo |
Feb-13-11 10:53 AM |
#171 |
| -
How? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-13-11 05:02 PM |
#173 |
| -
And it's the ludicrously narrow definition of "law-abiding" again |
Euromutt |
Feb-12-11 05:12 PM |
#143 |
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If I understand correctly, its because the state does little or nothing to protect the obedient |
aikoaiko |
Feb-12-11 05:16 PM |
#145 |
| -
Protect in what way? Do you call the right to shootouts "protection?" |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:23 PM |
#148 |
| -
"right to shootouts"??? strange |
aikoaiko |
Feb-12-11 05:35 PM |
#156 |
| -
I would call it the right to defend yourself with total disregard for others. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 06:01 PM |
#160 |
| -
I can't speak for others, but I'm fine with average resident (otherwise not prohibited) |
aikoaiko |
Feb-12-11 06:03 PM |
#162 |
| -
LOL... yeah, thanks Google... |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 06:10 PM |
#163 |
| -
We are happy with the present laws |
hack89 |
Feb-12-11 05:30 PM |
#154 |
| -
The present laws are all perfect? |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-12-11 05:59 PM |
#159 |
| -
None that have been proposed. nt |
hack89 |
Feb-12-11 06:01 PM |
#161 |
| -
You do understand that pointing out the existence of criminality does not make one either |
petronius |
Feb-12-11 11:33 PM |
#167 |
| -
How many pot-smokers use criminal activity to... |
krispos42 |
Feb-13-11 09:04 AM |
#170 |
| -
They don't use it "to justify" anything. They engage in it. |
ClassWarrior |
Feb-13-11 12:25 PM |
#172 |
| -
Because there's never been any serious discussion about drug laws... |
krispos42 |
Feb-13-11 09:58 PM |
#176 |
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