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Reply #73: He said he has no interest in protecting the public, just himself. And he said he's for shootouts. [View All]

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. He said he has no interest in protecting the public, just himself. And he said he's for shootouts.
He's probably just being honest in his self-centeredness.


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  -Why do gun lovers claim to be "law-abiding," yet use criminal activity to... ClassWarrior  Feb-12-11 11:23 AM   #0 
  - I'm sorry, but I find your OP nonsensical.  Common Sense Party   Feb-12-11 11:25 AM   #1 
  - So-called "law-abiding" g.o.s want to get rid of the laws - and use criminal activity to justify it.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:30 AM   #5 
     - Is there something illegal about wanting to change laws?  ixion   Feb-12-11 11:49 AM   #12 
        - Is there something moral about using criminal activity to justify the change?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:53 AM   #14 
           - uh, well, the impetus for ANY change or addition to the law books is some type of activity, criminal  ixion   Feb-12-11 12:20 PM   #23 
              - So you're saying "law-abiding" g.o.s do empathize with criminals?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:22 PM   #25 
                 - okay, a few points:  ixion   Feb-12-11 12:24 PM   #27 
                    - Apologies. I edited the "movement" comment to clarify my point.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:25 PM   #28 
                       - Much appreciated...  ixion   Feb-12-11 01:20 PM   #52 
  - Your argument really doesn't follow.  MineralMan   Feb-12-11 11:27 AM   #2 
  - Yeah, I don't know why I expected anyone here to "understand" it here.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:29 AM   #3 
     - The gun forum is best left to the gunnies  liberal N proud   Feb-12-11 11:30 AM   #4 
     - Actually, I'm not a "gungeon" guy. But your argument doesn't  MineralMan   Feb-12-11 11:46 AM   #10 
     - Or, perhaps you need to re-examine your premise  ixion   Feb-12-11 11:51 AM   #13 
        - True. Here's a strawman on a logical path.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:56 AM   #17 
           - That's all snarky bad and everything...but  ixion   Feb-12-11 12:21 PM   # 
  - I think they are saying most gun owners are law-abiding, but violent criminals are not law abiding.  ZombieHorde   Feb-12-11 11:35 AM   #6 
  - Well, apparently they're reluctantly "law-abiding" since they don't want laws.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:38 AM   #8 
     - Almost all gun owners want gun regulations. The argument is about which regulations are appropriate.  ZombieHorde   Feb-12-11 11:45 AM   #9 
     - Wow, how generous of them.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:46 AM   #11 
        - If I wanted to restrict gun rights, I would examine the regulations gun advocates generally agreed  ZombieHorde   Feb-12-11 11:55 AM   #15 
           - That's sensible and responsible. And no justification by criminal activity necessary.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 11:58 AM   #18 
     - You're right, to an extent.  NewMoonTherian   Feb-12-11 06:20 PM   #165 
  - Here! Here! - if you do not abide by the law - you are a law breaker  jpak   Feb-12-11 11:36 AM   #7 
  - Ever brought beer to a college party with under-21s present?  Euromutt   Feb-12-11 05:46 PM   #157 
  - WTF?  here_is_to_hope   Feb-12-11 11:56 AM   #16 
  - I respect that right, especially the "well-regulated" part. Words matter.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:10 PM   #20 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-12-11 12:23 PM   #26 
     - This has been clarified time and time again.  armueller2001   Feb-12-11 01:22 PM   #53 
     - I'm sure it's an intentional effort to confuse the issue as it has been said time  Hoopla Phil   Feb-12-11 01:35 PM   #64 
     - Well regulated - of like and kind as the "regulars". You knew that right?  Hoopla Phil   Feb-12-11 01:32 PM   #61 
     - Yes, words matter. So does understanding what they mean.  beevul   Feb-12-11 02:32 PM   #110 
  - We are doing that to point out that certain laws are ineffect in achieving  GreenStormCloud   Feb-12-11 12:09 PM   #19 
  - Because you say so?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:14 PM   #21 
     - By design, a "gun free zone" fails a logical test.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 12:33 PM   #32 
  - You're missing most of the argument you are trying to represent.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 12:16 PM   #22 
  - So you're saying you want to tote your guns where the criminals do so you can have shoot-outs?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:21 PM   #24 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-12-11 12:27 PM   #29 
     - No, actually I'm guessing this is the core of the entire matter. If "the good people" are...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:39 PM   #33 
        - Of course, once everyone is carrying guns with few restrictions, just who gets to decide...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:42 PM   #35 
        - Your guesses are pretty bad.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 12:49 PM   #41 
        - That's exactly your point in post #32. I quote... "If a criminal has a gun..."  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:51 PM   #43 
        - One modification-- can't protect *themselves*.  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 01:09 PM   #50 
           - Ahhh, so it's a selfish motive?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:33 PM   #63 
              - If he claims his motives are self protection... why is that selfish?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 01:36 PM   #66 
              - It's called "speak with forked tongue"  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 01:40 PM   #69 
              - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Feb-12-11 01:45 PM   #71 
              - He said he has no interest in protecting the public, just himself. And he said he's for shootouts.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:46 PM   #73 
                 - Did you know a police officer has no duty to protect anyone who is not held in their custody?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 02:17 PM   #96 
              - It's called self-defense.. not public-defense.  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 01:39 PM   #67 
     - NOTHING in any of my post said anything about carrying firearms or shootouts.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 12:41 PM   #34 
        - That's exactly your point in post #32. I quote... "If a criminal has a gun..."  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:44 PM   #37 
           - Perhaps you should respond to the correct subthreads so that readers know what you are referring to.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 12:55 PM   #45 
           - Ahhh... my value system doesn't change depending on the subthread.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:57 PM   #47 
           - That wasn't my point.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 01:14 PM   #51 
              - So if the law does no harm, what do you care?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:26 PM   #55 
                 - Useless != 'does no harm' n/t  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 01:29 PM   #56 
                 - Okay, explain.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:30 PM   #58 
                    - Oh, nevermind. You already explained. You're for the freedom to shootout.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:31 PM   #59 
                    - See response #39. n/t  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 01:32 PM   #60 
                 - So if the law has no benefit, why do you care?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 01:35 PM   #65 
                    - Answer my question first.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:41 PM   #70 
                       - I did... "Waste of taxpayer time & money"  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 01:45 PM   #72 
                          - Wow, is that all you got?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:48 PM   #75 
                             - "I don't care if the law has no benefit." -- saved that one for later.  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 01:50 PM   #76 
                             - In a free society, laws and restrictions should be justified.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 01:59 PM   #80 
                                - The goal is to end senseless death and injury. Show me that a shootout is more effective at that...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:01 PM   #82 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-12-11 02:12 PM   #91 
                                - Exactly.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:16 PM   #95 
                                   - Au contraire, mon frre  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 02:28 PM   #104 
                                      - Links please.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:31 PM   #108 
                                         - Here.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 03:12 PM   #122 
                                - Here are some examples:  GreenStormCloud   Feb-12-11 05:27 PM   #150 
                                   - Isolated incidents. Show me some statistics comparing with and without.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:28 PM   #152 
                                      - You are moving the goalposts.  GreenStormCloud   Feb-13-11 08:54 AM   #169 
                                - And please don't put words in my mouth. You asked, "If the law has no benefit..."  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:04 PM   #85 
                                   - So we are in agreement...  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 02:15 PM   #94 
                                      - I don't necessarily agree that so-called "feel good" laws have no benefits. But I agree that...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:19 PM   #98 
  - You're conflating two groups. Non Sequitur -- it does not follow.  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 12:29 PM   #30 
  - Why are the ones who are "scrupulous in following the law" so zealous in wanting to vaporize it?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:31 PM   #31 
     - Because I, who follows the law  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 12:42 PM   #36 
     - So once there are no laws, how will I know who are the lawbreakers and who aren't? Or am I just...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:48 PM   #40 
     - Because the other group is not likely to follow the law..  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 12:46 PM   #39 
        - So you want the freedom to have shootouts?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:49 PM   #42 
           - I have the freedom to attempt to resist violent attack.  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 12:53 PM   #44 
           - I'll take that as a "yes."  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 12:55 PM   #46 
              - Yes, that was a yes, but not using the perjorative terms you attempted to use to frame it. n/t  X_Digger   Feb-12-11 12:57 PM   #48 
           - So you want me to meekly submit to being murdered by a criminal? N/T  GreenStormCloud   Feb-12-11 05:01 PM   #140 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-12-11 12:45 PM   #38 
  - Your post makes no sense  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 01:09 PM   #49 
  - I've never seen children get slaughtered in an ankle weight shootout.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:25 PM   #54 
     - Not the point  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 01:30 PM   #57 
        - But why is it stupid? If it's stupid, you shouldn't have to resort...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:33 PM   #62 
        - It is stupid because  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 01:48 PM   #74 
        - I'm not the one who brings up criminals in these arguments. Re-read my OP.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:51 PM   #78 
           - Re-read your post #62 in which you said I make moral common ground with criminals  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 02:03 PM   #84 
              - I didn't say you necessarily do. I said many of your fellow travelers do. Someone brings up...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:11 PM   #89 
                 - Would you care to cite examples of where someone has said that?  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 02:17 PM   #97 
                    - I saw it here this morning. The thread is still on the Guns page, above the fold.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:20 PM   #99 
                       - I take that back. It has one rec. Someone had to unrec it, apparently to hide it. Soon...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:25 PM   #102 
                       - Nah. You provide the link. That isn't against the rules. Calling out by name is  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 02:29 PM   #106 
                          - I already know your interpretation of it is different than mine, but that post is where...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:33 PM   #111 
                             - "Accurate REphrasing" - Is that like a movie that's "Based" on real life events  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 02:39 PM   #113 
        - It's stupid because it doesn't work. nt  rrneck   Feb-12-11 02:15 PM   #93 
           - Proof?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:22 PM   #100 
              - Here's one...  rrneck   Feb-12-11 02:31 PM   #109 
                 - Okay, show proof of how that's more lethal than a campus full of gun toters.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:36 PM   #112 
                    - C'mon... Tell us how several thousand armed-to-the-teeth teenagers...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:42 PM   #114 
                    - Hell, tell us how several armed-to-the-teeth teenagers...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:45 PM   #117 
                    - I don't know that they would.  rrneck   Feb-12-11 03:03 PM   #121 
                       - Really? That's the subject of my OP?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:24 PM   #134 
                          - Granted, the actual subject of the OP is difficult to determine.  rrneck   Feb-12-11 05:21 PM   #147 
                    - Why do you think there would be several thousand?  rrneck   Feb-12-11 03:00 PM   #120 
                    - Teens can't get CCW permits. You FAIL again. N/T  GreenStormCloud   Feb-12-11 05:08 PM   #142 
                    - How many "gun toters" constitutes a "campus full"? nt  rrneck   Feb-12-11 02:43 PM   #115 
                    - C'mon  rrneck   Feb-12-11 03:13 PM   #123 
                       - Anti's don't dig up statistics. They make an assertion then want others  shadowrider   Feb-12-11 03:16 PM   #124 
                          - Yeah, blind faith is like that. nt  rrneck   Feb-12-11 03:18 PM   #125 
        - By the way, that's exactly the point. There are so many flaws with your analogy...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:40 PM   #68 
           - My analogy has nothing to do with body count  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 01:50 PM   #77 
           - Then why doesn't one? Why don't many?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 01:52 PM   #79 
           - Actually, the facts prove you are way wrong.  DonP   Feb-12-11 02:02 PM   #83 
           - The problem with your arguments through all of this is  YllwFvr   Feb-12-11 02:11 PM   #90 
           - Proof?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:14 PM   #92 
              - Of charges being dropped?  YllwFvr   Feb-12-11 02:27 PM   #103 
                 - That the laws dont do anything. Why are you avoiding the question?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:30 PM   #107 
                    - Ah I mistook what you were questioning  YllwFvr   Feb-12-11 02:43 PM   #116 
                       - Some links would help. And why take out the "accidents" and suicides?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:48 PM   #118 
                          - 05 there were 10k homicides by handgun  YllwFvr   Feb-12-11 02:59 PM   #119 
                             - Yeah, but isn't a proliferation of unregulated guns responsible for "accidents" like shooting...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:08 PM   #128 
                                - How can something which does not exist...  beevul   Feb-12-11 04:16 PM   #130 
                                   - You know what I'm trying to ask. Quit feigning confusion.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:20 PM   #131 
                                      - Hmmm?  beevul   Feb-12-11 04:33 PM   #138 
           - You are wrong. Greatest body counts are from single shooters.  GreenStormCloud   Feb-12-11 05:13 PM   #144 
           - That is demonstrably untrue  kudzu22   Feb-12-11 05:34 PM   #155 
  - What you are saying is that if someone obeys a gun law but wants to go through the  lawodevolution   Feb-12-11 02:00 PM   #81 
  - So once there's no more laws, who gets to judge who's the bad guys and...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:06 PM   #87 
     - Murder will always be illegal  lawodevolution   Feb-12-11 02:22 PM   #101 
     - Really? What about if you're carrying your legally-owned gun and you can...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:28 PM   #105 
        - By "get away with" I assume you mean "judged by a jury of your peers"  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 03:32 PM   #127 
           - Oh yeah, that'll bring the lives back.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:21 PM   #133 
              - So courts and trials are now meaningless because the acions of the accused can never be undone?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 05:28 PM   #151 
                 - No, that's the logic many of your fellow travelers use for eliminating gun laws.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:30 PM   #153 
                    - There are plenty of effective gun laws. Do you have any links showing "my side's" logic?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 05:53 PM   #158 
                       - That's true, I'm sure, and I appreciate it. Take nadinbrzezinski, for instance. She's...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 06:15 PM   #164 
     - Do you really think...  beevul   Feb-12-11 03:29 PM   #126 
        - I see any reasonable call for responsible, sensible regulation pissed on into oblivion. Every time.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:28 PM   #135 
           - And to get back to the OP, it's often justified with criminal activity.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:30 PM   #136 
           - Perhaps calling something reasonable does not make something reasonable.  beevul   Feb-12-11 04:49 PM   #139 
           - Pick any thread on this forum. You'll admit that some regulation is sensible and responsible, right?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:26 PM   #149 
              - I have seen few (1) reasonable proposal.  beevul   Feb-13-11 12:25 AM   #168 
                 - Face it. The number of regulations you consider reasonable is so small as to be statistically...  ClassWarrior   Feb-13-11 05:05 PM   #174 
                    - Thank you...  beevul   Feb-13-11 06:02 PM   #175 
           - Please tell us what are"responsible, sensible regulation " I would like to know. n/t  oneshooter   Feb-12-11 08:50 PM   #166 
  - If you don't care that laws can have no benefit... why do you care about the laws at all?  OneTenthofOnePercent   Feb-12-11 02:05 PM   #86 
  - That's quite the opposite of what I said, and you know that because you posed the question.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 02:07 PM   #88 
  - Non-Gonococcal Urethritis? North Greenville University? Naval Station Norfolk?  Euromutt   Feb-12-11 04:09 PM   #129 
  - Haha. Heard 'em all before.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 04:21 PM   #132 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-12-11 04:31 PM   #137 
     - Given your confrontational attitude in this thread...  Euromutt   Feb-12-11 05:06 PM   #141 
        - I've only responded in kind. In most cases I've been extremely polite.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:20 PM   #146 
           - You established the tone of hostility in your OP  Marengo   Feb-13-11 10:53 AM   #171 
              - How?  ClassWarrior   Feb-13-11 05:02 PM   #173 
  - And it's the ludicrously narrow definition of "law-abiding" again  Euromutt   Feb-12-11 05:12 PM   #143 
  - If I understand correctly, its because the state does little or nothing to protect the obedient  aikoaiko   Feb-12-11 05:16 PM   #145 
  - Protect in what way? Do you call the right to shootouts "protection?"  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:23 PM   #148 
     - "right to shootouts"??? strange  aikoaiko   Feb-12-11 05:35 PM   #156 
        - I would call it the right to defend yourself with total disregard for others.  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 06:01 PM   #160 
           - I can't speak for others, but I'm fine with average resident (otherwise not prohibited)  aikoaiko   Feb-12-11 06:03 PM   #162 
              - LOL... yeah, thanks Google...  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 06:10 PM   #163 
  - We are happy with the present laws  hack89   Feb-12-11 05:30 PM   #154 
  - The present laws are all perfect?  ClassWarrior   Feb-12-11 05:59 PM   #159 
     - None that have been proposed. nt  hack89   Feb-12-11 06:01 PM   #161 
  - You do understand that pointing out the existence of criminality does not make one either  petronius   Feb-12-11 11:33 PM   #167 
  - How many pot-smokers use criminal activity to...  krispos42   Feb-13-11 09:04 AM   #170 
     - They don't use it "to justify" anything. They engage in it.  ClassWarrior   Feb-13-11 12:25 PM   #172 
        - Because there's never been any serious discussion about drug laws...  krispos42   Feb-13-11 09:58 PM   #176 

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