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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:00 AM
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2. I am not against guns
but I dont see a reason for our culture to be so saturated with them. I remember hearing a prominent African-American leader of the 1990s (sorry dont remember the name) talk about the effects of having a gun.
He said that he grew up in one the poorest section of his city. Gangs were rampant. He first started off avoiding the streets that they controlled. At some point, he thought he needed protection and procured a handgun. Soon he was walking openly in the gang areas. Short time later he was feeling so brave he was confronting the gangs (like any dumbs kid) bragging about his gun and what he would.
He continues the story by saying his mother found out about the gun and took it from him. I guess he feared his mother far more than the gangs. He concluded by saying that he credits her bravery with taking the gun away from him with the fact that he didnt get the chance to kill or be killed. She kept him from ruining his life.
My point is, guns have an almost addictive power over people. It starts to whisper in the ears of way too many people that it is the best solution for almost any problem. Did someone cut me off in traffic? Ill just scare em with my gun. Did the neighbors nasty dog dig up my rose bushes? Maybe my gun can make him see reason. Those kids laughing on the street corner seem awfully scary but I wont fear I have my gun to protect me. Maybe its the rabid ranters of rightwing radio has convinced me that all liberals are evil. Ill take my automatic with the 30-bullet clip to the local grocery store and just shoot as many liberals as I can
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  -Kicking the hornets nest. beevul  Jan-26-11 04:06 AM   #0 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-26-11 04:23 AM   #1 
  - I am not against guns  left is right   Jan-26-11 05:00 AM   #2 
  - "Ill take my automatic with the 30-bullet clip"  armueller2001   Jan-26-11 06:49 AM   #4 
  - So, you braod-brush all gun owners with the anecdote of one foolish person.  PavePusher   Jan-26-11 10:07 AM   #16 
  - when I carry  YllwFvr   Jan-26-11 10:15 AM   #18 
     - Thankfully, of the millions who own guns, only a handful are foolhardy enough to  Starboard Tack   Jan-26-11 12:26 PM   #28 
     - more than likely you are around them every day  YllwFvr   Jan-26-11 12:35 PM   #29 
     - 780,595 people in Florida have concealed weapons permits ...  spin   Jan-27-11 12:38 PM   #46 
     - I am like you  rl6214   Jan-26-11 01:02 PM   #30 
  - I guess its not exactly inciting violence  liberal N proud   Jan-26-11 06:08 AM   #3 
  - Yet decades of liberalized gun carry laws have NOT created the bloodbath you seem to expect.  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 07:06 AM   #6 
  - What I find amazing is there are no good fact to support that either way  liberal N proud   Jan-26-11 08:41 AM   #7 
     - The BJS has some stats, as does the CDC..  X_Digger   Jan-26-11 08:46 AM   #9 
     - I don't see a dramatic drop in Aggravated assaults with firearms  liberal N proud   Jan-26-11 10:04 AM   #15 
        - But you ignore the proliferation of firearms and liberalization of laws regarding their carry.  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 11:23 AM   #23 
     - Look up the different years, and compare for yourself.  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 09:09 AM   #11 
     - Baloney. The stats you claim don't exist have been posted here many times. n/t  PavePusher   Jan-26-11 10:08 AM   #17 
        - Never said the didn't exist  liberal N proud   Jan-26-11 11:18 AM   #21 
           - What you said:  PavePusher   Jan-26-11 11:53 AM   #25 
              - What he means is  shadowrider   Jan-26-11 11:56 AM   #26 
  - Your opinion isn't backed up by fact, however..  X_Digger   Jan-26-11 08:43 AM   #8 
  - X_Digger,  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 09:10 AM   #12 
     - for example, in 2007..0.261 % of crimes were by CHLs  X_Digger   Jan-26-11 11:44 AM   #24 
        - That's what I thought you meant.  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 12:25 PM   #27 
  - your scenario?  YllwFvr   Jan-26-11 10:17 AM   #19 
  - Why is it the anti's alwasy talk about the  rl6214   Jan-26-11 01:05 PM   #31 
  - I see it a bit different.  lepus   Jan-26-11 08:10 PM   #35 
  - I think you might find out that  safeinOhio   Jan-26-11 06:58 AM   #5 
  - One issue voter?  HelenWheels   Jan-26-11 08:57 AM   #10 
     - You are right, I am a one issue voter.  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 09:12 AM   #13 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-26-11 09:39 AM   #14 
     - "Potential killers."  Callisto32   Jan-26-11 11:20 AM   #22 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-26-11 01:17 PM   #32 
     - im anti NRA  YllwFvr   Jan-26-11 10:22 AM   #20 
     - Broaden it up and then it's right.  Francis Marion   Jan-27-11 12:10 AM   #41 
  - It amazes me that gun owners can threaten politicians so subtly and get away with it  DainBramaged   Jan-26-11 02:25 PM   #33 
  - Retribution in the form of votes against you kind of goes with the territory for politicians  slackmaster   Jan-26-11 02:28 PM   #34 
  - Yep, pro-gunners will add to their already large weapons cache when controls are considered.  Hoyt   Jan-26-11 11:38 PM   #36 
     - What does that tell you about pro-gunners?  beevul   Jan-26-11 11:44 PM   #37 
     - A slight demurrer. The trouble with that is.....  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-27-11 12:46 AM   #42 
     - What does it tell me?  Straw Man   Jan-26-11 11:50 PM   #38 
     - If it's to make a profit, consider getting into something not related to killing people.  Hoyt   Jan-26-11 11:57 PM   #39 
        - Not related at all to killing people.  Straw Man   Jan-27-11 12:06 AM   #40 
        - Randy Weaver  RSillsbee   Jan-27-11 05:01 AM   #44 
           - Now pro-gunners are defending racist survivalists (Ayran Nation) who sold illegal weapons.  Hoyt   Jan-27-11 12:16 PM   #45 
              - Is it wrong in your opinion to buy firearms and have a firearm collection ...  spin   Jan-27-11 12:49 PM   #47 
              - Depends on what one plans to do with them and how stable the hoarder/collector is.  Hoyt   Jan-27-11 07:16 PM   #51 
                 - So to you a "collector" is the same as a "hoarder"? n/t  oneshooter   Jan-27-11 08:37 PM   #53 
                 - A stored or carried firearm (even loaded) does not pose anything like the danger of a bomb.  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 01:00 PM   #68 
              - Now pro restrictionists are defending the killing  RSillsbee   Jan-27-11 01:37 PM   #48 
              - Randy Weaver frequented Aryan Nation meetings and sold illegal weapons. Apparently OK with some here  Hoyt   Jan-27-11 07:12 PM   #50 
                 - Love the association fallacy.. did you come up with that yourself?  X_Digger   Jan-27-11 07:27 PM   #52 
                 - The Second Reich invented retirement at 65. Richard Nixon founded the EPA  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-27-11 08:56 PM   #54 
                 - Lets not forget what the Gun control act of '68 is modeled after...N/T  beevul   Jan-27-11 09:27 PM   #55 
                 - I don't see anyone disagreeing  RSillsbee   Jan-27-11 10:13 PM   #56 
                    - He had equal protection. If toters shoot someone, what legal protection do they have?  Hoyt   Jan-27-11 11:55 PM   #57 
                       - The guns he sold  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 03:36 AM   #58 
                       - So you don't think we should infiltrate racist, terrorist organizations. Interesting.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 08:09 AM   #59 
                          - I never said that  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 08:56 AM   #60 
                          - I have no problem "deliberately setting up" terrorists, which Weaver clearly was.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 10:13 AM   #61 
                             - Yep, that assault baby was clearly a threat to law enforcement...  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 11:16 AM   #63 
                             - "I have no problem "deliberately setting up" terrorists, which Weaver clearly was."  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 12:57 PM   #66 
                             - He wasn't set up out of the blue. He was set up because he was a terrorist.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 01:55 PM   #70 
                                - SO attach 'terra' to anyone, and any means is justified by the ends?  X_Digger   Jan-28-11 02:02 PM   #72 
                                - What were his alledged crimes? Please, don't dodge. n/t  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 02:21 PM   #73 
                                   - You know the old saying...  beevul   Jan-28-11 08:52 PM   #91 
                             - Do you really not understand?  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 12:58 PM   #67 
                                - I understand that Weaver had well over a year to surrender, did not, and bad things happened.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 01:53 PM   #69 
                                   - Do you not understand  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 02:46 PM   #74 
                          - So you have no problem with cops shooting women holding children. Interesting.  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 11:18 AM   #64 
                             - Daddy Weaver should have given himself up. Instead HE put his wife in danger.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 01:59 PM   #71 
                                - Strangely enoiugh, thats the argument the feds made in court.  beevul   Jan-28-11 02:54 PM   #75 
                                - Don't you know civil liberties only extend to people who's politics are acceptable  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 03:23 PM   #76 
                                - Which is exactly what they did the next time. Oops. n/t  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 04:11 PM   #77 
                                - That was different  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 04:22 PM   #78 
                                   - I forget... were there any minorities at Waco?  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 05:41 PM   #87 
                                      - Worse  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 08:45 PM   #89 
                                      - ROFL. N/T  beevul   Jan-28-11 08:49 PM   #90 
                                - Apparently, flying Confederate flags means it's OK for law enforcement to shoot you  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 04:43 PM   #80 
                                   - But they don't have the right to transfer illegal weapons and run from trial for over a year.  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 05:24 PM   #84 
                                      - Once again, your ignorance is on display.  beevul   Jan-28-11 05:39 PM   #86 
                                      - Back to the Weavers, you have still not answered the question:  PavePusher   Jan-28-11 05:43 PM   #88 
                                - Why am I not surprised you followed this closely? Did you contribute to his defense fund?  Hoyt   Jan-28-11 05:18 PM   #83 
                                   - It is clear you didn't.  beevul   Jan-28-11 05:28 PM   #85 
                                - That argument worked so well for the Feds, they ended up paying $3M to the Weaver family....  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 04:39 PM   #79 
                       - I guess his wife and son were just collateral damage, eh?  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 11:14 AM   #62 
                          - Wasn'r his son the one that got shot in the back? NT  RSillsbee   Jan-28-11 12:46 PM   #65 
                             - Yeah, but his dad is a racist, so it was OK.  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-11 04:46 PM   #81 
                                - Amazing how that works.  shadowrider   Jan-28-11 04:49 PM   #82 
              - False accusation of association.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-27-11 02:11 PM   #49 
     - The same thing it tells me about pot-smokers...  mvccd1000   Jan-27-11 12:51 AM   #43 

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