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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 02:51 PM
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143. just so people understand why this is very important
In california the anti-gun groups are trying to make complicated gun laws to intimidate firearm owners, they think this will reduce the number of people who are fighting for gun rights. Limiting ammo purchases to such low levels would have effectively brought about the closure of shooting ranges which would have been a nail in the coffin of shooting sports in california.

The best way to go about defying them would be to invite people to go shooting, and if you honestly believe in protecting your rights, offer to pay for the range and bullets, which has been very effective with the large number of people who have never shot a gun before that I have taken to the range. Creating new pro gun activists is the way we will win this culture war in the long term.
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  -BREAKING NEWS: California Court Rules Ammunition Ban AB962 Unconstitutional Atypical Liberal  Jan-19-11 10:05 AM   #0 
  - There will be appeals and the anti will certainly pass another ban  ProgressiveProfessor   Jan-19-11 10:06 AM   #1 
  - Governor Brown's biggest problem is the state budget.  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 10:10 AM   #5 
     - Even though some state pols found the money for fighting the suit. nt  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:22 PM   #73 
  - IBMG  cleanhippie   Jan-19-11 10:06 AM   #2 
  - Partial Dupe  ProgressiveProfessor   Jan-19-11 10:07 AM   #3 
  - Good. It was a dumb law that would have cost the state many millions in sales tax revenue  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 10:09 AM   #4 
  - Yikes!  Dappleganger   Jan-19-11 10:38 AM   #16 
  - No shit. My 1911 wasn't 100% reliable until I had put about 2,000 rounds through it  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 10:41 AM   #20 
  - guns make us less safe, not more  CreekDog   Jan-19-11 11:22 AM   #31 
  - The issue isn't guns  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 12:03 PM   #40 
  - Actually, guns don't "make" people safe, they...  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:24 PM   #74 
     - guns provide more illusion of safety than actual safety  CreekDog   Jan-20-11 02:33 AM   #116 
        - So are there no defensive gun uses? 800,000 a year? 1.5 million a year?  DonP   Jan-20-11 09:25 AM   #121 
           - I'll raise ya (and cite) to 2.5 million times a year.  Hoopla Phil   Jan-20-11 03:56 PM   #125 
           - did not say there were "no" defensive uses, they are just outweighed by the danger they add  CreekDog   Jan-20-11 08:47 PM   #133 
              - There are ~400,000 uses of guns in crime each year.. (per DOJ BJS)  X_Digger   Jan-20-11 09:05 PM   #134 
              - Bzzzzzt. WrongOh. Please check here:  Hoopla Phil   Jan-20-11 09:09 PM   #135 
                 - cite the last peer reviewed study that bolstered gun control that you believe valid  CreekDog   Jan-20-11 09:27 PM   #136 
                 - Why? How about you cite the last peer reviewed study that bolstered gun rights that YOU  Hoopla Phil   Jan-20-11 09:29 PM   #137 
                    - i'm willing to accept the data analysis of a study with respect to bolstered gun rights  CreekDog   Jan-20-11 10:24 PM   #141 
                 - I note that you do not refute any of the peer reviewed information. How telling is that?  Hoopla Phil   Jan-20-11 09:31 PM   #138 
  - The ban on mail order was largely an attempt to pull that revenue back into the state.  Xithras   Jan-19-11 11:44 AM   #33 
  - I was going to reply, "Where's your sarcasm tag?" but then I read  snappyturtle   Jan-19-11 10:23 AM   #6 
  - they should ban Amazon  naaman fletcher   Jan-19-11 10:25 AM   # 
  - you obviously didn't read up on the issue  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:25 AM   #8 
  - You're correct, I haven't read up on the issue. My take is solely based  snappyturtle   Jan-19-11 10:40 AM   #18 
  - Your opinion as a potential target or accidental recipient of fired rounds is good enough for me.  sharesunited   Jan-19-11 11:46 AM   #35 
     - For me also. I regard ANY measures to limit or ban this damnable shit as a good thing.  calimary   Jan-19-11 01:18 PM   #49 
        - This decision won't increase the availability of guns or of ammunition  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 01:29 PM   #50 
  - Should not be too difficult to make law clear. The pro-gunners will claim it's vague no matter what  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 11:03 AM   #27 
     - You're not allowed to drive to the state next door and buy all the Sudafed you want.  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-19-11 12:06 PM   #42 
        - Actually, remember one Wal Mart denied Loughner bullet because of the way he was acting.  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 01:33 PM   #51 
           - Yes, but this law would do nothing to stop either of them.  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 04:30 PM   #76 
              - Absurd? Yet it happened at the first store -- the clerk said he acted strange, so no ammo.  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 05:45 PM   #85 
                 - So, in the second store, maybe he acted non-crazy to ensure the sale. n/t  PavePusher   Jan-19-11 06:06 PM   #87 
                 - OK -- waiting period for ammo or something. But, what's a few lives compared to unconvincing toters.  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 06:19 PM   #89 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-19-11 06:49 PM   #92 
                       - You'd become a Republican because you could not get bullets on demand? Sad.  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 06:56 PM   #93 
                          - I would rather be a Democrat with elected officials. I can and do make bullets on demand. - n/t  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 07:01 PM   #94 
                          - Yep ... and note: "We made them do it!" . . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 03:52 PM   #123 
                             - I really doubt you will find that many Democrats who live/breath guns and public toting.  Hoyt   Jan-20-11 04:33 PM   #132 
                 - He bought it legally and face to face. It made no difference.  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 06:09 PM   #88 
                 - Less "passion" when you are talking packing in public is a GOOD thing.  Hoyt   Jan-19-11 06:20 PM   #90 
                    - LMAOROTF - So now you prefer that it be sold on line. - n/t  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 06:24 PM   #91 
                 - No, those reports haven't been backed up..  X_Digger   Jan-19-11 07:24 PM   #95 
                 - What is the exact legal definition for  rl6214   Jan-20-11 10:46 PM   #142 
  - Agreed. The DU gun lobby doesn't, though /nt  Bragi   Jan-19-11 10:26 AM   #9 
  - so you believe unconstutionally vague legislation  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:31 AM   #11 
     - I think the appalling 2nd Amendment should be repealed /nt  Bragi   Jan-19-11 10:41 AM   #19 
        - but even if we didnt have a 2A  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:54 AM   #25 
        - Got it  Bragi   Jan-19-11 11:18 AM   #30 
        - It's a GOPs/NRA issue and a right wing win -- celebrate!!  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 01:58 PM   #53 
        - or  gejohnston   Jan-19-11 12:37 PM   #46 
        - Sometimes Burke sounds just right!  Bragi   Jan-19-11 01:14 PM   #48 
           - Then repeal it. Pretending it doesn't exist is hardly Democratic. n/t.  Statistical   Jan-19-11 04:04 PM   #71 
           - "Public health perspective?" Then you may wish to...  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:32 PM   #78 
              - What are you referring to?  Bragi   Jan-19-11 07:35 PM   #96 
              - Is this the study you are referring to?  Bragi   Jan-19-11 07:45 PM   #97 
              - Hello Steve M, any response?  Bragi   Jan-20-11 07:40 AM   #118 
        - You may agree with Alan Dershowitz...  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:29 PM   #75 
        - Go for it. An amendment can be blocked by any 13 states.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-19-11 09:01 PM   #100 
           - Of course an amendment isn't viable  Bragi   Jan-20-11 06:03 AM   #117 
  - It's a bad bill...  Dappleganger   Jan-19-11 10:40 AM   #17 
  - ...  elleng   Jan-19-11 10:45 AM   #22 
  - it was the right decision  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:24 AM   #7 
  - Thanks for explaining. I am not a gun owner although I'm from a family  snappyturtle   Jan-19-11 10:30 AM   #10 
  - Seems to me mail order would be *less* dangerous  Lance_Boyle   Jan-19-11 10:32 AM   #13 
  - JADP - Ammunition is never shipped by mail  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 10:33 AM   #14 
  - buying ammo online and shipping it to yourself  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:35 AM   #15 
  - A bullet is dirt cheap -- 20 cents? -- vs a human life ...  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 02:07 PM   #56 
     - It's going to cost him the rest of his life  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 03:14 PM   #65 
        - Well, it may be worth only $3.80. nt  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:34 PM   #79 
  - Agree X 2.  elleng   Jan-19-11 10:46 AM   #23 
  - and .22 lr is the *only* way to take target practice economically  Lance_Boyle   Jan-19-11 10:31 AM   #12 
  - 'Unconstitutionally vague' can be remedied, and shouldn't be difficult, imo.  elleng   Jan-19-11 10:43 AM   #21 
  - in some cases...but not in this case  bossy22   Jan-19-11 10:53 AM   #24 
     - Gotcha, so its difficult for technical reasons relating to use?  elleng   Jan-19-11 11:14 AM   #28 
        - Actually, the language could just be broadened.  Xithras   Jan-19-11 11:53 AM   #37 
        - If I remember right,  gejohnston   Jan-19-11 12:27 PM   #44 
           - Correct. You have to be over 21 years old to buy handgun ammunition anywhere in the USA.  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 12:33 PM   #45 
           - The age requirement wouldn't simply be to check your age.  Xithras   Jan-19-11 03:23 PM   #66 
        - You're right: it is "reasonable to assume drafters didn't know about this..."  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:37 PM   #80 
  - Awww crap.  Xithras   Jan-19-11 11:01 AM   #26 
  - then why can't California wine be shipped to many states?  DBoon   Jan-19-11 11:18 AM   #29 
  - Simple.  Xithras   Jan-19-11 11:50 AM   #36 
  - You shouldn't.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-19-11 11:57 AM   #38 
  - The 21st Amendment Repealed The 18th Amendment  hardluck   Jan-19-11 02:00 PM   #54 
  - This, actually, isn't different than restrictions on the 2nd  pipoman   Jan-19-11 08:57 PM   #99 
  - Actually, if California is similar to Georgia, you can order it  shadowrider   Jan-19-11 04:31 PM   #77 
     - There are few states with laws on alcohol as screwed up as Kansas  pipoman   Jan-19-11 09:07 PM   #101 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-19-11 11:34 AM   #32 
  - I'd just load my own.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-19-11 11:58 AM   #39 
     - No, reloading supplies were also baned by this insane law. - n/t  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 03:07 PM   #63 
  - K&R-Evidently judges have some sense, even in California-Good ruling.  old mark   Jan-19-11 11:45 AM   #34 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-19-11 12:05 PM   #41 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-19-11 12:23 PM   #43 
  - Awesome!  Ter   Jan-19-11 12:59 PM   #47 
  - Seems that the aggression of the GOPs/NRA continues on and on ... !!  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 01:55 PM   #52 
  - This law wouldn't have done anything to reduce violence  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 02:04 PM   #55 
  - All it would have done  Abq_Sarah   Jan-19-11 02:38 PM   #58 
     - It would have resulted in a lot of people hoarding ammunition.  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 04:49 PM   #82 
     - One big feature of this is the SALES advantage -- buying in bulk -- !!!  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 09:19 PM   #102 
        - Bulk  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 10:38 PM   #107 
           - "Straw Man" was an excellent choice ...  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 10:53 PM   #109 
              - So you really DON'T want to make ammo more expensive?  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 11:29 PM   #112 
                 - I'd make guns free and bullets a million $ a piece ...  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 04:16 PM   #128 
                    - So not a straw man at at all. Thanks.  Straw Man   Jan-20-11 10:11 PM   #140 
  - Well, here are the problems with your outlook...  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:46 PM   #81 
  - The cost.  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 08:05 PM   #98 
  - Right ... Laughner could have killed 6 and wounded a total of 19 ... with his bare hands -- !!!  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 09:21 PM   #103 
     - Moore said "a human life"...  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 09:52 PM   #104 
        - The point Moore is making and I'm making is how cheaply a human life can be taken ...  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 10:05 PM   #105 
           - Cheaply?  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 10:24 PM   #106 
              - The "triviality" is the concentration on what's good for the GOPs/NRA and gun lobby ... rather than  defendandprotect   Jan-19-11 10:51 PM   #108 
                 - "Life is cheap" is a metaphor: it's not about the price of ammo.  Straw Man   Jan-19-11 11:19 PM   #111 
                    - Guns and bullets make "life cheap" -- or cheapen all our lives however you want to phrase it...  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 12:03 AM   #113 
                       - I prefer to blame the murderer.  Straw Man   Jan-20-11 12:13 AM   #114 
                          - The murderer had a gun -- it was a shooting -- of 19 people -- 6 dead ....  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 12:20 AM   #115 
                             - The murderer had a gun  Straw Man   Jan-20-11 08:56 AM   #119 
                                - When you can kill 6 and wound 19 from a distance with $3.80 worth of bullets ....  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 03:48 PM   #122 
                                   - Question on the Poll, since you did not provide a link...  Glassunion   Jan-20-11 03:52 PM   #124 
                                      - Here you go --  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 04:02 PM   #127 
  - actually  timo   Jan-20-11 09:47 PM   #139 
  - did LA just have a school shooting?  florida08   Jan-19-11 02:32 PM   #57 
  - I'd like to see basic gun safety taught in public schools  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 02:58 PM   #59 
  - that's actually a good idea  florida08   Jan-19-11 03:06 PM   #62 
     - I have seen this done very successfully in High School.  BrightKnight   Jan-19-11 03:47 PM   #67 
  - here's some info about who and what can be purchased online  florida08   Jan-19-11 02:59 PM   #60 
  - The list of cities includes Los Angeles, where the accidental school shooting you mentioned occurred  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 03:03 PM   #61 
     - yes..  florida08   Jan-19-11 03:07 PM   #64 
  - While I agree with you concerning safety and responsibility...  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:49 PM   #83 
  - Newsflash. Guns Sales Sites are not News Sites. nt  onehandle   Jan-19-11 03:50 PM   #68 
  - I alerted.  Hell Hath No Fury   Jan-19-11 03:56 PM   #70 
  - LOL!  slackmaster   Jan-19-11 04:14 PM   #72 
  - Oh well, in that case then, it didn't happen.  Hoopla Phil   Jan-19-11 05:51 PM   #86 
  - WOW I guess you folks can stop hoarding now....  DainBramaged   Jan-19-11 03:54 PM   #69 
  - Oh, I need some Rem Oil. Thanks for reminding me. nt  SteveM   Jan-19-11 04:52 PM   #84 
  - Nobody needs that much Rem Oil.  Straw Man   Jan-21-11 10:42 PM   #144 
  - California owned by the second amendment. Very good news.  lawodevolution   Jan-19-11 11:13 PM   #110 
  - Bravo California...well done...  Xela   Jan-20-11 08:57 AM   #120 
  - Did they include an apology of any kind? Any one of them notice Arizona?  defendandprotect   Jan-20-11 03:56 PM   #126 
  - The decision was based on California state law and well-established precedent  slackmaster   Jan-20-11 04:16 PM   #129 
  - Apology for what? n/t  PavePusher   Jan-20-11 04:22 PM   #130 
  - Whaaaaaaargarble!!  X_Digger   Jan-20-11 04:30 PM   #131 
  - just so people understand why this is very important  lawodevolution   Jan-21-11 02:51 PM   #143 

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