You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #14: 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies. [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-11 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies.
Such "freedom" is double speak.

A society in which you can be so conveniently killed upon the whim of others is a state of terror.

A society in which the living and the dead are distinguishable only by who can draw and fire first is a state of terror.

The 2nd was put in there as an appeasement toward those who were skeptical of a strong central government.

The Civil War has rendered the 2nd entirely moot.

So let's stop the charade that guns have anything to do with "rights" or "freedoms."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -Cost of 2nd Amendment Freedoms caseymoz  Jan-10-11 01:07 AM   #0 
  - predictaby unrecc'd. Expect snark to follow. But little in the way of conversation.  villager   Jan-10-11 01:10 AM   #1 
  - "Little in the way of conversation" is more your style, actually.  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:11 AM   #13 
  - Your post is the perfect example of snark and little conversation.  aikoaiko   Jan-10-11 11:05 PM   #86 
  - If you don't have the ability to defend your life  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 01:12 AM   #2 
  - Exactly.  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 01:23 AM   #3 
  - I agree. So, what's a reasonable amount of self-defense?  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 01:33 AM   #5 
  - A hydrogen bomb. Really?  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 02:16 AM   #11 
  - i will be more direct  reggie the dog   Jan-10-11 03:54 AM   #23 
  - This deserves a serious answer,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 04:11 AM   #27 
  - fair enough  reggie the dog   Jan-10-11 04:51 AM   #28 
  - It goes back to the concept of a militia  badtoworse   Jan-10-11 08:12 AM   #42 
  - You are mostly correct...  OneTenthofOnePercent   Jan-10-11 10:52 AM   #58 
  - On 2nd amendment arms  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:24 AM   #52 
  - There are broadly two conditions that the line is drawn on  krispos42   Jan-10-11 10:44 AM   #57 
  - Would you like to know the difference between France and Chicago?  TheWraith   Jan-10-11 04:25 PM   #81 
  - I agree with krispos42 in post 23  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 11:29 PM   #88 
  - You talk about irony going over somebody's head.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 11:10 AM   #59 
     - Facts trump opinion, even honest opinion.  TPaine7   Jan-11-11 12:47 AM   #92 
  - Yes, CCW permit holders have PROVEN themselves trustworthy.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 12:58 PM   #73 
  - Reasonable?  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 04:49 PM   #84 
  - There is little evidence owning a gun allows you to defend your life.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 01:37 AM   #6 
     - As one whose personal experinence is to the contrary, I disagree  ProgressiveProfessor   Jan-10-11 01:43 AM   #8 
     - I don't place much stock in personal anecdotes.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 09:14 AM   #46 
        - The Kellerman study has long since been discredited.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 01:01 PM   #74 
     - "There is little evidence owning a gun allows you to  jazzhound   Jan-10-11 02:03 AM   #10 
     - If you have a gun in your home  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 09:18 AM   #47 
     - We have critiqued Kellerman et al. repeatedly.  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 09:20 AM   #48 
     - I doubt we'll ever agree  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 10:27 AM   #53 
        - Don't let facts get in the way of a good faith-based argument.  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 11:18 AM   #61 
        - The facts are on my side.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 11:47 AM   #62 
           - That's just it.. it's not anecdote  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:03 PM   #63 
              - I'm not a climate change denier.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 12:30 PM   #67 
                 - Those anti-gun 'studies'? Were hased on surveys.. LOL!!!  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:42 PM   #68 
                 - Um, no.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 12:50 PM   #70 
                    - Please read the methodology-- it's a case-control study  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:56 PM   #72 
                       - Like I said.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 01:25 PM   #77 
                          - You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts..  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 01:35 PM   #78 
                             - Sweden?  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 10:53 PM   #85 
                                - You're right, switzerland.. not enough caffeine  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 07:57 AM   #96 
                 - Mexico has extremely strict gun control, and they have lots of gun violence.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 01:06 PM   #75 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-10-11 02:37 PM   #79 
                    - Actually, only about 16% of their guns come from the U.S.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 02:43 PM   #80 
                 - In other words  shadowrider   Jan-10-11 04:47 PM   #83 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-11-11 03:40 AM   #95 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-11-11 03:36 AM   #94 
     - Exactly: They key is past or present CRIMINAL ACTIVITY  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:27 AM   #54 
     - this has been refuted many times.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 09:50 AM   #51 
     - Uh-huh  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 04:35 PM   #82 
  - Because  Jenoch   Jan-10-11 01:24 AM   #4 
  - You might have observed that I said that in closing.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 01:39 AM   #7 
  - All rights have costs  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 01:47 AM   #9 
  - And yes, rights carry costs. I'm glad you say this.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 12:26 PM   #65 
  - In order for your points to be taken seriously, you  jazzhound   Jan-10-11 02:30 AM   #12 
  - 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:11 AM   #14 
  - Because you claim the right to have bullets enter your body,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:19 AM   #15 
  - Advocate instead for a mutual covenant to waive that "right" for the common good.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:25 AM   #16 
     - See post 9. I will not advocate for the waiving of rights "for the common good"  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:35 AM   #19 
        - What's creepy is your literal embrace of the right to have bullets enter our bodies is  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:49 AM   #22 
           - Not "our bodies" sharesunited,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 04:03 AM   #25 
           - Our bodies...  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 04:05 AM   #26 
              - Sure, Loughner will be punished. Whoop de frickin do. Very helpful to the dead and maimed.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 05:19 AM   #29 
                 - scarcity?  gravity556   Jan-10-11 06:21 AM   #33 
                 - Ascencion aaaaaaalmost got retaken by the citizens  Katya Mullethov   Jan-10-11 07:49 AM   #37 
                 - Crime and punishment.  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 11:17 AM   #60 
                 - You're not ever going to achieve scarcity in this society.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:53 PM   #99 
  - A society in which you can be so conveniently killed...  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 03:28 AM   #17 
  - Your remedy is the illness, tragically ironic as illustrated by events.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:35 AM   #18 
  - By what events?  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 03:40 AM   #20 
     - Guns and ammo in the hands of the public. Literally obtained over the counter at a retail store.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:47 AM   #21 
        - Still looking for that Constitutional right to homicide?  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 04:00 AM   #24 
  - I think I've lived in that state, or at least in the next zip code  Euromutt   Jan-10-11 07:52 AM   #38 
  - Reflecting on your post.  Remmah2   Jan-10-11 07:46 AM   #36 
  - How so?  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:29 AM   #55 
  - Not having second amendment rights does not stop bullets entering our bodies either ...  spin   Jan-10-11 01:13 PM   #76 
  - are you saying  john donathon   Jan-10-11 05:30 AM   #30 
  - No, but you also should weigh that against other risks inherent with a gun.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:37 AM   #93 
  - should nobody  john donathon   Jan-10-11 05:35 AM   #31 
  - What "reasonable regulations" would you propose?  LAGC   Jan-10-11 06:20 AM   #32 
  - A total and complete ban on private citizens owning hand guns would be a good start. nt  bowens43   Jan-10-11 07:11 AM   #35 
     - How would you hope to achieve this goal? (n/t)  LAGC   Jan-10-11 08:02 AM   #40 
        - You just declare war  Katya Mullethov   Jan-10-11 08:23 AM   #44 
  - Outside of the framework of a well regulated militia  bowens43   Jan-10-11 07:10 AM   #34 
  - And your historical evidence of this is?  oneshooter   Jan-10-11 07:54 AM   #39 
  - Snore.  Euromutt   Jan-10-11 08:06 AM   #41 
  - Please explain...  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:33 AM   #56 
  - Like I've pointed out before, nations with low gun possession rates and strict gun control are more  lawodevolution   Jan-10-11 08:17 AM   #43 
  - Lots of opinions asserted as fact..let's break this down..  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 08:43 AM   #45 
  - I'll tell you what you need to show me to win this argument.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 12:07 AM   #90 
     - You made a statement of opinion without fact..  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 09:09 AM   #97 
        - Thank you for info. I'll start studying it.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:43 PM   #98 
        - Right, the sources linked in the table are non-positional.  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 01:55 PM   #100 
        - One last thing: your stat on the number of defensive uses of guns?  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 05:04 PM   #101 
           - You're comparing apples to oranges..  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 05:36 PM   #102 
              - So, instead of telling me that the moon is 500 miles away, you're saying it's 750.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 11:03 PM   #109 
                 - You're also comparing the defensive gun uses from 1994 to crime stats from today.  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 11:26 PM   #110 
  - The issue is simple and you miss it. Government is not obligated to protect an individual unless  jody   Jan-10-11 09:41 AM   #49 
  - wow, just wow.  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 05:52 PM   #104 
  - You are correct on one thing.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 09:46 AM   #50 
  - While the Fourth Amendment ...  Kennah   Jan-10-11 12:21 PM   #64 
  - On the assertion that the Congo is a society  Kennah   Jan-10-11 12:28 PM   #66 
  - Problems with your observations...  SteveM   Jan-10-11 12:46 PM   #69 
  - I'm told Gifford herself was armed.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 12:27 AM   #91 
  - It would also lead to an increase in crime.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 12:54 PM   #71 
  - I think its safe to say that all freedoms can be exploited by malicious people  aikoaiko   Jan-10-11 11:08 PM   #87 
  - Benefit of Second Amendment :  Francis Marion   Jan-10-11 11:48 PM   #89 
  - LOL, you really think you need to protect yourself against the government?  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 05:51 PM   #103 
     - You mean that you don't ...  Kennah   Jan-11-11 06:52 PM   #106 
     - No, I don't. But I am not looking as hard as others. And not wanting it to happen.  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 06:55 PM   #107 
        - I too am not wanting it to happen; however ...  Kennah   Jan-11-11 06:59 PM   #108 
           - We're fairly mild by world standards  Francis Marion   Jan-12-11 12:49 AM   #112 
     - If you have an ear to hear...(or a word to the wise is probably not sufficient...)  Francis Marion   Jan-12-11 12:29 AM   #111 
  - You can easily test a couple things  one-eyed fat man   Jan-11-11 06:29 PM   #105 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC