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Reply #14: 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies. [View All]

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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-11 03:11 AM
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14. 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies.
Such "freedom" is double speak.

A society in which you can be so conveniently killed upon the whim of others is a state of terror.

A society in which the living and the dead are distinguishable only by who can draw and fire first is a state of terror.

The 2nd was put in there as an appeasement toward those who were skeptical of a strong central government.

The Civil War has rendered the 2nd entirely moot.

So let's stop the charade that guns have anything to do with "rights" or "freedoms."
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  -Cost of 2nd Amendment Freedoms caseymoz  Jan-10-11 01:07 AM   #0 
  - predictaby unrecc'd. Expect snark to follow. But little in the way of conversation.  villager   Jan-10-11 01:10 AM   #1 
  - "Little in the way of conversation" is more your style, actually.  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:11 AM   #13 
  - Your post is the perfect example of snark and little conversation.  aikoaiko   Jan-10-11 11:05 PM   #86 
  - If you don't have the ability to defend your life  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 01:12 AM   #2 
  - Exactly.  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 01:23 AM   #3 
  - I agree. So, what's a reasonable amount of self-defense?  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 01:33 AM   #5 
  - A hydrogen bomb. Really?  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 02:16 AM   #11 
  - i will be more direct  reggie the dog   Jan-10-11 03:54 AM   #23 
  - This deserves a serious answer,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 04:11 AM   #27 
  - fair enough  reggie the dog   Jan-10-11 04:51 AM   #28 
  - It goes back to the concept of a militia  badtoworse   Jan-10-11 08:12 AM   #42 
  - You are mostly correct...  OneTenthofOnePercent   Jan-10-11 10:52 AM   #58 
  - On 2nd amendment arms  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:24 AM   #52 
  - There are broadly two conditions that the line is drawn on  krispos42   Jan-10-11 10:44 AM   #57 
  - Would you like to know the difference between France and Chicago?  TheWraith   Jan-10-11 04:25 PM   #81 
  - I agree with krispos42 in post 23  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 11:29 PM   #88 
  - You talk about irony going over somebody's head.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 11:10 AM   #59 
     - Facts trump opinion, even honest opinion.  TPaine7   Jan-11-11 12:47 AM   #92 
  - Yes, CCW permit holders have PROVEN themselves trustworthy.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 12:58 PM   #73 
  - Reasonable?  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 04:49 PM   #84 
  - There is little evidence owning a gun allows you to defend your life.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 01:37 AM   #6 
     - As one whose personal experinence is to the contrary, I disagree  ProgressiveProfessor   Jan-10-11 01:43 AM   #8 
     - I don't place much stock in personal anecdotes.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 09:14 AM   #46 
        - The Kellerman study has long since been discredited.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 01:01 PM   #74 
     - "There is little evidence owning a gun allows you to  jazzhound   Jan-10-11 02:03 AM   #10 
     - If you have a gun in your home  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 09:18 AM   #47 
     - We have critiqued Kellerman et al. repeatedly.  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 09:20 AM   #48 
     - I doubt we'll ever agree  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 10:27 AM   #53 
        - Don't let facts get in the way of a good faith-based argument.  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 11:18 AM   #61 
        - The facts are on my side.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 11:47 AM   #62 
           - That's just it.. it's not anecdote  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:03 PM   #63 
              - I'm not a climate change denier.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 12:30 PM   #67 
                 - Those anti-gun 'studies'? Were hased on surveys.. LOL!!!  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:42 PM   #68 
                 - Um, no.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 12:50 PM   #70 
                    - Please read the methodology-- it's a case-control study  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 12:56 PM   #72 
                       - Like I said.  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 01:25 PM   #77 
                          - You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts..  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 01:35 PM   #78 
                             - Sweden?  Rainbow Wave   Jan-10-11 10:53 PM   #85 
                                - You're right, switzerland.. not enough caffeine  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 07:57 AM   #96 
                 - Mexico has extremely strict gun control, and they have lots of gun violence.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 01:06 PM   #75 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-10-11 02:37 PM   #79 
                    - Actually, only about 16% of their guns come from the U.S.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 02:43 PM   #80 
                 - In other words  shadowrider   Jan-10-11 04:47 PM   #83 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-11-11 03:40 AM   #95 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-11-11 03:36 AM   #94 
     - Exactly: They key is past or present CRIMINAL ACTIVITY  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:27 AM   #54 
     - this has been refuted many times.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 09:50 AM   #51 
     - Uh-huh  Abq_Sarah   Jan-10-11 04:35 PM   #82 
  - Because  Jenoch   Jan-10-11 01:24 AM   #4 
  - You might have observed that I said that in closing.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 01:39 AM   #7 
  - All rights have costs  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 01:47 AM   #9 
  - And yes, rights carry costs. I'm glad you say this.  caseymoz   Jan-10-11 12:26 PM   #65 
  - In order for your points to be taken seriously, you  jazzhound   Jan-10-11 02:30 AM   #12 
  - 2nd Amendment "freedoms" amount to nothing more than the freedom to have bullets enter our bodies.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:11 AM   #14 
  - Because you claim the right to have bullets enter your body,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:19 AM   #15 
  - Advocate instead for a mutual covenant to waive that "right" for the common good.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:25 AM   #16 
     - See post 9. I will not advocate for the waiving of rights "for the common good"  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 03:35 AM   #19 
        - What's creepy is your literal embrace of the right to have bullets enter our bodies is  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:49 AM   #22 
           - Not "our bodies" sharesunited,  TPaine7   Jan-10-11 04:03 AM   #25 
           - Our bodies...  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 04:05 AM   #26 
              - Sure, Loughner will be punished. Whoop de frickin do. Very helpful to the dead and maimed.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 05:19 AM   #29 
                 - scarcity?  gravity556   Jan-10-11 06:21 AM   #33 
                 - Ascencion aaaaaaalmost got retaken by the citizens  Katya Mullethov   Jan-10-11 07:49 AM   #37 
                 - Crime and punishment.  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 11:17 AM   #60 
                 - You're not ever going to achieve scarcity in this society.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:53 PM   #99 
  - A society in which you can be so conveniently killed...  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 03:28 AM   #17 
  - Your remedy is the illness, tragically ironic as illustrated by events.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:35 AM   #18 
  - By what events?  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 03:40 AM   #20 
     - Guns and ammo in the hands of the public. Literally obtained over the counter at a retail store.  sharesunited   Jan-10-11 03:47 AM   #21 
        - Still looking for that Constitutional right to homicide?  Straw Man   Jan-10-11 04:00 AM   #24 
  - I think I've lived in that state, or at least in the next zip code  Euromutt   Jan-10-11 07:52 AM   #38 
  - Reflecting on your post.  Remmah2   Jan-10-11 07:46 AM   #36 
  - How so?  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:29 AM   #55 
  - Not having second amendment rights does not stop bullets entering our bodies either ...  spin   Jan-10-11 01:13 PM   #76 
  - are you saying  john donathon   Jan-10-11 05:30 AM   #30 
  - No, but you also should weigh that against other risks inherent with a gun.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:37 AM   #93 
  - should nobody  john donathon   Jan-10-11 05:35 AM   #31 
  - What "reasonable regulations" would you propose?  LAGC   Jan-10-11 06:20 AM   #32 
  - A total and complete ban on private citizens owning hand guns would be a good start. nt  bowens43   Jan-10-11 07:11 AM   #35 
     - How would you hope to achieve this goal? (n/t)  LAGC   Jan-10-11 08:02 AM   #40 
        - You just declare war  Katya Mullethov   Jan-10-11 08:23 AM   #44 
  - Outside of the framework of a well regulated militia  bowens43   Jan-10-11 07:10 AM   #34 
  - And your historical evidence of this is?  oneshooter   Jan-10-11 07:54 AM   #39 
  - Snore.  Euromutt   Jan-10-11 08:06 AM   #41 
  - Please explain...  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 10:33 AM   #56 
  - Like I've pointed out before, nations with low gun possession rates and strict gun control are more  lawodevolution   Jan-10-11 08:17 AM   #43 
  - Lots of opinions asserted as fact..let's break this down..  X_Digger   Jan-10-11 08:43 AM   #45 
  - I'll tell you what you need to show me to win this argument.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 12:07 AM   #90 
     - You made a statement of opinion without fact..  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 09:09 AM   #97 
        - Thank you for info. I'll start studying it.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 01:43 PM   #98 
        - Right, the sources linked in the table are non-positional.  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 01:55 PM   #100 
        - One last thing: your stat on the number of defensive uses of guns?  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 05:04 PM   #101 
           - You're comparing apples to oranges..  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 05:36 PM   #102 
              - So, instead of telling me that the moon is 500 miles away, you're saying it's 750.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 11:03 PM   #109 
                 - You're also comparing the defensive gun uses from 1994 to crime stats from today.  X_Digger   Jan-11-11 11:26 PM   #110 
  - The issue is simple and you miss it. Government is not obligated to protect an individual unless  jody   Jan-10-11 09:41 AM   #49 
  - wow, just wow.  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 05:52 PM   #104 
  - You are correct on one thing.  Atypical Liberal   Jan-10-11 09:46 AM   #50 
  - While the Fourth Amendment ...  Kennah   Jan-10-11 12:21 PM   #64 
  - On the assertion that the Congo is a society  Kennah   Jan-10-11 12:28 PM   #66 
  - Problems with your observations...  SteveM   Jan-10-11 12:46 PM   #69 
  - I'm told Gifford herself was armed.  caseymoz   Jan-11-11 12:27 AM   #91 
  - It would also lead to an increase in crime.  GreenStormCloud   Jan-10-11 12:54 PM   #71 
  - I think its safe to say that all freedoms can be exploited by malicious people  aikoaiko   Jan-10-11 11:08 PM   #87 
  - Benefit of Second Amendment :  Francis Marion   Jan-10-11 11:48 PM   #89 
  - LOL, you really think you need to protect yourself against the government?  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 05:51 PM   #103 
     - You mean that you don't ...  Kennah   Jan-11-11 06:52 PM   #106 
     - No, I don't. But I am not looking as hard as others. And not wanting it to happen.  KansasVoter   Jan-11-11 06:55 PM   #107 
        - I too am not wanting it to happen; however ...  Kennah   Jan-11-11 06:59 PM   #108 
           - We're fairly mild by world standards  Francis Marion   Jan-12-11 12:49 AM   #112 
     - If you have an ear to hear...(or a word to the wise is probably not sufficient...)  Francis Marion   Jan-12-11 12:29 AM   #111 
  - You can easily test a couple things  one-eyed fat man   Jan-11-11 06:29 PM   #105 
 

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