rrneck
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Tue Oct-26-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #72 |
| 78. Who said anyone broke in? |
|
If it is possible that more than one person granted access, how is the state to determine who that person was?
It's dismissive to simply require people to change their relationships or residence. The people who are most likely to have to defend themselves with a firearm are the least likely to be able to do that. Do you really want to open another front in the class war and find yourself on the wrong side of it?
|
| -Definition of a straw purchaser: |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:46 AM |
#0 |
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A lot of gun laws rely on a similar degree of trust |
slackmaster |
Oct-26-10 10:50 AM |
#1 |
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I see that the CIA |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:54 AM |
#2 |
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Fortunately for me, I've never actually sold a firearm in my life |
slackmaster |
Oct-26-10 10:58 AM |
#3 |
| -
What's funny is |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:01 AM |
#5 |
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Question: would you buy a gun for another person who you knew was |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 02:09 PM |
#29 |
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No. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 02:15 PM |
#30 |
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Nevermind your baiting questions - YOU know what a real straw purchase is, |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 02:20 PM |
#31 |
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No, that gets to the heart of the issue in the OP.. |
X_Digger |
Oct-26-10 02:29 PM |
#33 |
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Selling to an acquitance - if a background check was required |
RamboLiberal |
Oct-26-10 05:29 PM |
#43 |
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That takes us to the possibility |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 05:43 PM |
#45 |
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Loaned/borrowed/shared = transfered. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 08:26 PM |
#51 |
| -
Does stolen equal borrowed? |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 08:47 PM |
#53 |
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Stolen does not equal borrowed. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 08:53 PM |
#55 |
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Fine. But |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:08 PM |
#57 |
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How would they know what? |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:21 PM |
#60 |
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Guilt. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:23 PM |
#62 |
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Guilt of what? |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:37 PM |
#64 |
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Theft or failure to secure the firearm. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:38 PM |
#65 |
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Theft or failure to secure the firearm will be obvious. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:56 PM |
#70 |
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From post #53. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:29 PM |
#75 |
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Tersely answered in #55, more verbosely here. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 10:47 PM |
#81 |
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So, |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:52 PM |
#82 |
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Ed's act of robbery is not Joe's responsibility. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:06 PM |
#84 |
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How would Joe's knowledge be proven? nt |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:12 PM |
#86 |
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Witnesses, recordings, still holding the map for the getaway. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:16 PM |
#89 |
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True. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:28 PM |
#91 |
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Exactly. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:31 PM |
#93 |
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From what I've seen |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:41 AM |
#99 |
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It is hard to report before the discovery. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-27-10 12:20 PM |
#106 |
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Most of the time |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 02:30 PM |
#34 |
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I think this is the source of your confusion: |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 08:12 PM |
#49 |
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Indeed. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 08:39 PM |
#52 |
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Some clarifications are needed from you. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:15 PM |
#59 |
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All dangerous tools should be secured |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:22 PM |
#61 |
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If not the owner, then who? |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:49 PM |
#67 |
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Who indeed. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:03 PM |
#71 |
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The owner does not control information. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 10:26 PM |
#74 |
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The combination to a gun vault is information which controls access. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:33 PM |
#77 |
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The combination to the safe IS access. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:00 PM |
#83 |
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What right does the government have |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:09 PM |
#85 |
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The right granted by the voters. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:30 PM |
#92 |
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...there is no dictate on "how" for the private sellers... |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:27 AM |
#96 |
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Firstly, terminology. |
PavePusher |
Oct-27-10 10:40 PM |
#115 |
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How would you prove the request was made, |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 06:19 PM |
#48 |
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That depends upon other factors. |
GreenStormCloud |
Oct-26-10 02:27 PM |
#32 |
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Hell no. |
AtheistCrusader |
Oct-27-10 12:10 PM |
#104 |
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Question #1 |
Xmit |
Oct-26-10 10:59 AM |
#4 |
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Paper trails are the key to stopping |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 11:08 AM |
# |
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What if you didn't know it was stolen or lost? |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:09 AM |
#7 |
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Totally beside the point |
Katya Mullethov |
Oct-26-10 11:37 AM |
#9 |
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Unless you can give evidence that there was no way for you to know, |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 11:43 AM |
#11 |
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How would |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:55 AM |
#13 |
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If you are required by law to report a stolen gun, and a gun in your possession |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 12:05 PM |
#14 |
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A lot of "ifs" there. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 12:14 PM |
#15 |
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The gun owner's responsibility is not to police his relatives or spouse, |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 12:44 PM |
#16 |
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You see |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 01:25 PM |
#22 |
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Simple. When that gun is used in a crime, the purchaser faces criminal |
RaleighNCDUer |
Oct-26-10 02:03 PM |
#26 |
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PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 02:09 PM |
#28 |
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If you are driving your friends car |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 03:34 PM |
#39 |
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Good analogies, but... |
Glassunion |
Oct-26-10 04:46 PM |
#40 |
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What's your point? |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 04:47 PM |
#41 |
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Yes |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 09:45 PM |
#66 |
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So if someone is |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:14 PM |
#73 |
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The woman is not responsible for the actions of her boyfriend. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 10:33 PM |
#76 |
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So how would the cops bust her |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:44 PM |
#80 |
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They would not "know". They would investigate. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:12 PM |
#87 |
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They would actually be investigating |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:21 PM |
#90 |
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Now you are asking good questions! |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:37 PM |
#94 |
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If the state doesn't give her much to work with |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:32 AM |
#97 |
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"There is NO excuse..." |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 01:33 PM |
#23 |
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When your kid gets drunk |
one-eyed fat man |
Oct-26-10 02:00 PM |
#25 |
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What is there to compel? |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 01:44 PM |
#24 |
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Well, yeah. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 02:05 PM |
#27 |
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You seem way too eager to give access to a "house gun" |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 08:23 PM |
#50 |
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How would the authorities |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 08:50 PM |
#54 |
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The authorities will have evidence indicating a failure on your part. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:03 PM |
#56 |
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If access were granted to someone other than the purchaser |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:14 PM |
#58 |
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Who are these people you want to keep giving guns to? |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 09:36 PM |
#63 |
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I don't necessarily want to give guns to anybody. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 09:53 PM |
#69 |
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In your example, you make the unsafe assumption |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 10:13 PM |
#72 |
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Who said anyone broke in? |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:38 PM |
#78 |
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Life is a series of choices. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-26-10 11:50 PM |
#95 |
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Why do you assume that it is |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:37 AM |
#98 |
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I make no such assumptions. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-27-10 12:54 PM |
#110 |
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Nope. |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 01:11 PM |
#112 |
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Suppose if you will... |
Glassunion |
Oct-26-10 12:58 PM |
#18 |
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How does that work |
RSillsbee |
Oct-26-10 01:15 PM |
#21 |
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The ATF has lost many, including machineguns |
one-eyed fat man |
Oct-26-10 12:52 PM |
#17 |
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I think I have to disagree. |
Hangingon |
Oct-26-10 01:08 PM |
#19 |
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Most gun owners don't have gun safes. |
GreenStormCloud |
Oct-26-10 02:33 PM |
#35 |
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When not on me |
PVFR |
Oct-26-10 02:48 PM |
#36 |
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As well they should be. |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 02:56 PM |
#37 |
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So much for the "innocent until proven guilty" construct, huh? |
cleanhippie |
Oct-27-10 05:02 PM |
#114 |
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That is what judges and juries are for. |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 03:25 PM |
#38 |
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Please explain how judges and juries can prove a negative. nt |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 05:14 PM |
#42 |
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Sorry, I don't get your point. |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 09:50 PM |
#68 |
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When the drunk hits someone, everyone will know |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 10:41 PM |
#79 |
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Just like when his |
safeinOhio |
Oct-26-10 11:14 PM |
#88 |
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Children and dogs |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 01:02 AM |
#100 |
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Perhaps, |
safeinOhio |
Oct-27-10 07:48 AM |
#101 |
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Well, |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 10:20 AM |
#102 |
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The state does not make such demands. |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-27-10 12:32 PM |
#108 |
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Hence the term "if". |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:37 PM |
#109 |
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Sold in a private sale |
RSillsbee |
Oct-26-10 01:13 PM |
#20 |
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I think you confuse "stopping" with "punishing". |
beevul |
Oct-26-10 05:33 PM |
#44 |
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That is an excellent, and crucial, observation |
Euromutt |
Oct-26-10 06:02 PM |
#46 |
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The threat of incarceration |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 06:12 PM |
#47 |
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We have to figure the risk of capture into the equation as well |
Euromutt |
Oct-28-10 07:31 PM |
#116 |
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"Paper trails " Meaning regestration with a goverment office? n/t |
oneshooter |
Oct-27-10 04:25 PM |
#113 |
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And as I recall |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:08 AM |
#6 |
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War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. nt |
Glassunion |
Oct-26-10 11:15 AM |
#8 |
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Intent is hard to prove, but |
DissedByBush |
Oct-26-10 11:38 AM |
#10 |
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How would they know you sold it? |
rrneck |
Oct-26-10 11:45 AM |
#12 |
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Same thing as my company store purchasing policy. |
AtheistCrusader |
Oct-27-10 12:09 PM |
#103 |
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True. |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:17 PM |
#105 |
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Standard police work. |
AtheistCrusader |
Oct-27-10 12:31 PM |
#107 |
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Yeah. And I'm not saying it's not worth the effort. |
rrneck |
Oct-27-10 12:57 PM |
#111 |
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