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Reply #180: The North Hollywood Bank Robbery was an anomoly [View All]

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #99
180. The North Hollywood Bank Robbery was an anomoly
Edited on Fri Jul-09-10 05:42 PM by RamboLiberal
1 incident that has not been repeated. Wikipedia explains it well.

On the morning of Feb. 28, 1997, after months of preparation, including extensive reconnoitering of their intended targetthe Bank of America branch on Laurel Canyon BoulevardPhillips and Matasareanu loaded five rifles and approximately 3,300 rounds of ammunition in box and drum magazines into the trunk of their vehicle: two modified Chinese-built Norinco Type 56 Sporters and one modified Norinco Type 56 S-1, a semi automatic HK91 and a modified Bushmaster XM15 E2S. Phillips carried one 9mm Beretta Model 92F. They wore their full-suit body armor, as well as metal trauma plates to protect vital organs, and they took the barbiturate phenobarbital to calm their nerves.

LAPD at the time didn't equip their street officers with a rifle in the car. They should have, but instead they depended on SWAT who took awhile to get to this incident. And look at the date. This incident was after the AWB was enacted. Sure didn't stop these 2 robbers. LAPD officers at the scene were going to gun stores to get rifles to fight back.

Have you seen an incident like this since?

Columbine - no except for the school officer on the scene the police were not outgunned. And even there the weapons Harris and Klebold were carrying were not that great. The rifle was a pistol caliber and the pump action shotgun soemthing that could be used for hunting. And the only reason I give Harris a slight edge against the school officer when they exchanged fire from a distance is the better stability of the carbine vs. a pistol. But no caliber edge.

During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun.

Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9.

The SWAT officers at Columbine had Harris and Klebold outgunned. But by the time SWAT went in to the school the killers had already committed suicide. Again this terrible crime happened after the AWB. Did nothing to stop it. Look at the high cap mags - thought they were banned? Ah, but exising mags were grandfathered in and there were thousands if not hundred of thousands of them already available. Only thing the AWB did is make them more expensive and valuable.

Anytime police roll up on a criminal with a rifle or shotgun they can be outgunned if they don't get to their shotgun or if they are not carrying a rifle in the patrol car. Cops get killed by criminals with hunting rifles.

Police agencies should train and equip their officers with an AR-15 and many are. Just like they found they had to switch from revolvers to higher capacity semi-autos. Or from 9mm to .40 or .45 calibers.

IMHO the AWB was a knee jerk to a couple of high profile crimes and a stupid ineffective law that did little to stop crime. It soured a generation of gun owners on voting Democratic and will continue to hurt Democrats for at least another 10-20 years or better.

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  -A question for those who want to ban or restrict "assult weapons". PavePusher  Jul-08-10 10:46 PM   #0 
  - Kick and Recommend. Will hold back for a bit to comment.  Hoopla Phil   Jul-08-10 10:51 PM   #1 
  - Please don't wait. We are dying to hear!  KansasVoter   Jul-08-10 10:56 PM   #2 
     - Honoring the request made in th O.P. You know what that is don't  Hoopla Phil   Jul-08-10 11:46 PM   #15 
  - How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?  onehandle   Jul-08-10 11:06 PM   #3 
  - The Woodchuck amendment guarantees their right to chuck as much as they want  Oregone   Jul-08-10 11:07 PM   #4 
  - "assault weapons" is an arbitrary term  Oregone   Jul-08-10 11:15 PM   #5 
  - All that shit means nothing  Pavulon   Jul-08-10 11:39 PM   #13 
  - Whatever  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:14 AM   #19 
     - Obvious and reasonable to you. Unreasonable and unconstitutional to us.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:26 AM   #41 
     - If its unreasonable, no weapon can ever have its utility outweighed by its risk  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:36 AM   #44 
     - The question has already been asked.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:43 AM   #46 
     - And technology has changed during those 100 years  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:50 AM   #49 
        - No, you're simply not understanding me.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:56 AM   #51 
           - "Not radically"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:00 AM   #54 
              - The fact you call them 'arbitrary legal positions' suggests to me you may be the one  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:10 AM   #59 
                 - Until we can determine universal human law through math alone...  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:12 AM   #61 
                    - The pressures and risks that brought about the 2nd amendment remain, today.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:20 AM   #64 
                       - Yep, the British are coming  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:22 AM   #65 
                          - Getting back to history  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:24 AM   #67 
                             - I agree  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:40 AM   #68 
                                - Now you're just being silly  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 09:54 AM   #102 
                                   - The entire stonewalling youre conducting against debate is silly  Oregone   Jul-09-10 09:56 AM   #104 
                                      - My weapons are useful, specifically because they are dangerous.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 10:00 AM   #107 
                                         - All weapons are dangerous. Some more than others  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:03 AM   #110 
                                         - You continue to ignore the point.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 10:09 AM   #114 
                                         - You continue to muck  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:13 AM   #115 
                                         - When the weapon doesn't operate as designed  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 10:26 AM   #118 
                                         - "Utility is precisely the variable that is being advanced, that you seem to consider 'risk'"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:33 AM   #119 
                                         - Nobody can do that with current semi-autos.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 10:54 AM   #120 
                                         - Who said I'm talking about semi-autos?  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:00 AM   #121 
                                         - 750+ rounds per minute is utility.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:13 AM   #124 
                                         - Okey doke  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:16 AM   #125 
                                         - When hunting, 5 rounds is generally the legal max on what you put in the rifle.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:18 AM   #126 
                                         - Yes, and we should fight to repeal such an infringment  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:20 AM   #127 
                                         - Hunting regulations are not related to the protections afforded by the 2nd amendment.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:23 AM   #128 
                                         - Most of this thread is simply childish  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:28 AM   #130 
                                         - I did, long ago.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:33 AM   #131 
                                         - "how could I possibly accept X level of utility being 'too dangerous'?"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:39 AM   #132 
                                         - Actually  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:44 AM   #133 
                                         - No  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:50 AM   #134 
                                         - The same way we limit availability to recidivist felons post-release  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 11:57 AM   #135 
                                         - "I do not want thugs obtaining indiscriminate, suppressive fire weapons."  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:04 PM   #136 
                                         - Indiscriminate fire.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 12:10 PM   #137 
                                         - Such an ability to do so is determined by a combination of attributes of the model  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:16 PM   #139 
                                         - Can you name a feature set that lends itself, not just by capability  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 12:31 PM   #142 
                                         - No attribute of any gun forces it to be used in a malevolent, indiscriminate manner  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:41 PM   #144 
                                         - It isn't arbitrary.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 12:50 PM   #146 
                                         - "Unless it is your goal to ban all semi-autos"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:57 PM   #147 
                                         - Not aw well as an M249 or 240 golf  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 01:01 PM   #149 
                                         - "Not as well" doesn't eliminate the possible capabilities, eh?  Oregone   Jul-09-10 01:08 PM   #151 
                                         - You can put suppressive fire down with a bolt action rifle  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 01:20 PM   #153 
                                         - I don't think so  Oregone   Jul-09-10 01:38 PM   #156 
                                         - You have nothing but a lost cause.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 02:20 PM   #157 
                                         - "there is no restriction relevant to which type of rifles or pistols I should be able to own or ca"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:28 PM   #158 
                                         - Pretty much reasonable. Limiting me to a 10 round mag  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 02:32 PM   #159 
                                         - "suggesting that there exists no semi-automatic rifle ..."  Statistical   Jul-09-10 02:57 PM   #160 
                                         - "and the quality of the design" contradicts "they all are equally "good""  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:01 PM   #161 
                                         - Jams and misfires are not a contradiction.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:28 PM   #164 
                                         - However it is very subjective and differences in quality are minimal compared to skill.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 03:41 PM   #167 
                                         - "doesn't it seem kinda stupid to only ban high quality firearms."  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:54 PM   #169 
                                         - Now you're just flailing around.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:55 PM   #170 
                                         - Even a revolver can be used for 'suppressive fire'.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:25 PM   #163 
                                         - Not a term I introduced, mind you  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:34 PM   #165 
                                         - Agreed.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:42 PM   #168 
                                         - The nature of the mechanics of a fully-auto weapon  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:22 PM   #162 
     - A 12 Gague shotgun is .72 caliber.  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 07:58 AM   #74 
     - Yeah, its what I use for home defense  Oregone   Jul-09-10 09:50 AM   #101 
     - Applied to the rest of the rights.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:32 AM   #86 
     - That's not accurate.  HALO141   Jul-09-10 12:45 PM   #145 
     - The guys who blew up buses in london used TATP  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:31 AM   #85 
  - Anything with enough stopping power to humanely kill a deer, will go through 2-3 human bodies.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:12 AM   #27 
  - Youre setting the bar of risk vs utility very low, and constructing a strawman in the process  Oregone   Jul-09-10 01:40 AM   #29 
     - The classification is already done.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:58 AM   #34 
     - Thats bullshit, and it avoids the question I asked  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:03 AM   #35 
        - You didn't understand my response.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:13 AM   #37 
           - The problem here is...  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:25 AM   #40 
           - Select-fire weapons are used for suppressing fire.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:33 AM   #42 
           - "It simply cannot be done."  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:44 AM   #47 
              - The appropriate counter-measures to the 'half retarded sociopathic step child'  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:00 AM   #53 
                 - "we changed the way police respond to active shooter situations"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:02 AM   #55 
                    - Approve or disapprove, meaningless to me.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:05 AM   #57 
                       - Laws are not universally correct, just because they are laws  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:10 AM   #60 
                          - I didn't stop your debate.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 09:57 AM   #105 
                             - You just mucked it up with nonesense  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:02 AM   #109 
                                - I haven't ignored it.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 10:06 AM   #113 
           - I agree with you  NewMoonTherian   Jul-09-10 08:39 AM   #88 
              - "I support the repeal of bans on large calibers, AP ammunition and machine guns"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:02 AM   #108 
                 - I think an occasional shot of...  NewMoonTherian   Jul-09-10 06:58 PM   #188 
           - It's funny:  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 08:00 AM   #75 
              - *snicker* I see what you did there. n/t  NewMoonTherian   Jul-10-10 03:46 PM   #254 
     - is there ever a point where the potential risk of a specific firearm outweighs the utility .......  The Green Manalishi   Jul-09-10 09:58 AM   #106 
     - Even if that utility is redundant (not unique)?  Oregone   Jul-09-10 10:05 AM   #111 
        - Ideally.  The Green Manalishi   Jul-09-10 10:23 AM   #117 
     - Yes, certainly. And that line is based on function,  benEzra   Jul-09-10 09:10 PM   #204 
  - You would be incorrect.  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 07:53 AM   #73 
  - You ask why should any be banned. I ask why should any be allowed.  sharesunited   Jul-08-10 11:17 PM   #6 
  - For the same reason you will not be bound and gagged  Pavulon   Jul-08-10 11:26 PM   #8 
  - "Because smart men wrote laws"  Oregone   Jul-08-10 11:28 PM   #10 
  - Yet, you still have no political base to change them.  Pavulon   Jul-08-10 11:32 PM   #11 
  - "A rifle back then fired a bullet over a hundred yards."  Oregone   Jul-08-10 11:34 PM   #12 
     - The killed plenty of people back in the day  Pavulon   Jul-08-10 11:42 PM   #14 
     - Plenty of people standing in dense lines  Oregone   Jul-09-10 12:11 AM   #18 
        - You are describing the generally abysmal british marksmanship of the time.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:46 AM   #30 
     - Wrong.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:34 AM   #28 
     - Random thought...  Oregone   Jul-09-10 01:55 AM   #33 
        - What about Gas Grills?  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:08 AM   #36 
        - Do gas tanks and pipes have utility that outweighs their potential risks?  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:13 AM   #38 
           - In the 90's, I was told I could not buy a rifle with certain features, because it was an 'assault we  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:20 AM   #39 
              - Thats not my game, whatsoever  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:33 AM   #43 
                 - I like what is lawful under our Constitution.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:40 AM   #45 
                 - Does God exist?  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:48 AM   #48 
                    - I have not encountered any objective, credible evidence to support the existence of any  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 02:52 AM   #50 
                       - Well its right there in the bible. Its written in black and white! Its gotta be true!  Oregone   Jul-09-10 02:57 AM   #52 
                          - I am not bound in any way by the bible. I am bound by the Constitution.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:03 AM   #56 
                             - "So it's a rather fruitless exercise"  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:05 AM   #58 
                                - We are talking in circles.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:13 AM   #62 
                                   - So. Discussing is not a violation. We aren't breaking any laws by talking  Oregone   Jul-09-10 03:20 AM   #63 
                                   - As I began earlier  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 03:23 AM   #66 
                                   - I'll engage in the discussion.  NewMoonTherian   Jul-10-10 08:27 AM   #247 
                                   - Oh man, I spent all day hacking apart two stumps in the sun, the hard way.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-11-10 12:32 AM   #255 
                                   - Man, if I had to...  NewMoonTherian   Jul-11-10 01:05 AM   #256 
                                   - Last year I used black powder  oneshooter   Jul-11-10 10:36 AM   #258 
                 - Why do you list accuracy as a risk factor?  GreenStormCloud   Jul-10-10 08:59 AM   #249 
        - Move those goal posts, move em down, move those goal posts, move em around!  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 08:04 AM   #77 
     - Bullshit.  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 08:03 AM   #76 
     - Check out the Kentucky / Pennsylvania / Tennessee rifle  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 08:23 AM   #83 
  - Check out the Girandoni Rifle  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 08:21 AM   #82 
  - The words of smart men have intentionally been misinterpreted to indulge a cultural illness.  sharesunited   Jul-09-10 12:43 AM   #22 
     - Care to back up your claim?  TheWraith   Jul-09-10 09:17 AM   #95 
     - And Johnny-on-the-spot, He's here to cure it! nt  SteveM   Jul-09-10 01:17 PM   #152 
  - For hunting, target shooting and self defense ...  spin   Jul-09-10 12:00 AM   #16 
  - All of that is very true.  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 12:07 AM   #17 
     - Versatility. 5 round mag for hunting, 30 round mag for home defense.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 12:44 AM   #23 
        - Lots of versatility  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 01:03 AM   #24 
        - "Of course some were full autos"  Statistical   Jul-09-10 01:12 AM   #26 
        - 12 injured, 2 dead bad guys. Holy shit, I wish every murdering homicidal maniac had a hit rate like  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:49 AM   #31 
        - Some have better results with semi-autos  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 07:30 AM   #70 
           - You do know that ALL rifles are involved in less than 3% of murders annually, yes?  benEzra   Jul-09-10 08:05 AM   #78 
           - That is why I'm for  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:31 AM   #84 
              - Vast majority of violent crime involves stolen or illegal guns.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:28 AM   #96 
                 - One DUer has suggested such a system.  GreenStormCloud   Jul-10-10 09:17 AM   #250 
           - Sorry, but the first two cops were killed with a pump-action shotgun.  TheWraith   Jul-09-10 09:29 AM   #97 
        - The shoot-out with a Thousand Faces. My word, what glaring over-use.  SteveM   Jul-09-10 01:29 PM   #154 
        - If on a budget, I'd get a  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 07:41 AM   #72 
           - That is YOUR choice however others have the RIGHT to make their own choices.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:47 AM   #100 
           - That's your choice and a good one ...  spin   Jul-09-10 10:06 AM   #112 
              - You'd be surprised, actually  Euromutt   Jul-10-10 04:08 AM   #245 
                 - I never really thought of that, but it makes sense. (n/t)  spin   Jul-10-10 12:17 PM   #253 
  - As usual, a nonsense contribution to the discussion.  proteus_lives   Jul-09-10 04:49 AM   #69 
  - Hmmm, how about because they're among the least misused of all guns  benEzra   Jul-09-10 08:16 AM   #80 
  - Under our legal system, everything is allowed except that which has been prohibited  slackmaster   Jul-09-10 09:06 AM   #93 
  - guns are just tools, the gun culture in this country is an illness  kratos12   Jul-08-10 11:24 PM   #7 
  - Yep, the fat "nra" fat fuck gun "culture" is not stacking bodies  Pavulon   Jul-08-10 11:28 PM   #9 
  - I sure don't see the NRA  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 01:08 AM   #25 
     - The cause isn't specific to firearms. Americans are generally, very violent.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 01:52 AM   #32 
     - Not their job. The head up their asses people we elect  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:35 AM   #87 
     - It is the people the NRA helps get elected  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:44 AM   #91 
        - Voters own it. Easy to blame, but at the end of the day  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 01:03 PM   #150 
     - About 29% of NRA endorsed candidates are Democrats. N/T  GreenStormCloud   Jul-10-10 09:21 AM   #251 
  - So true. But most do not understand the worry. They need steel courage.  KansasVoter   Jul-09-10 12:23 AM   #21 
  - So what if that piece of steel give me more confidence?  GreenStormCloud   Jul-10-10 09:24 AM   #252 
  - Uncle Joe and the Neighborhood Militia  Travis Coates   Jul-09-10 07:31 AM   #71 
  - Typical, gun and thug culture confused.  Callisto32   Jul-09-10 08:20 AM   #81 
  - Any reason you posted that other than to help yourself deal with your inferiority complex?  Euromutt   Jul-10-10 04:19 AM   #246 
  - Don't most of us want to restrict firearms?  ZombieHorde   Jul-09-10 12:21 AM   #20 
  - Correct. I passed 2 ssbi checks  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:42 AM   #90 
     - So, it's all about you.  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:53 AM   #92 
     - There is no legal cheap full auto.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 01:00 PM   #148 
     - I hooked one of those up the other day  Katya Mullethov   Jul-09-10 09:11 AM   #94 
  - Tell me again how rifles are such a fricking crime problem?  benEzra   Jul-09-10 08:12 AM   #79 
  - You are right  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:40 AM   #89 
     - Might want to check your math.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:34 AM   #98 
        - Of course, but  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 12:15 PM   #138 
           - And yet police are killed with handguns four to one compared to rifles.  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 12:27 PM   #141 
           - Sure, for just knocking off one or two,  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 04:42 PM   #176 
              - That's one way to do it.  ManiacJoe   Jul-09-10 04:50 PM   #178 
              - So , I cant own a 30rd mag because some asshole planned something...  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:42 PM   #187 
              - And I might use my computer to distribute child porn..  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 07:23 PM   #189 
                 - Only one time  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:26 PM   #192 
                    - No, it does not matter. All the stacked bodies  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:37 PM   #193 
                    - Like I said  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:54 PM   #195 
                       - 50 state ccw baby.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:02 PM   #198 
                       - You sure don't know me  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:21 PM   #208 
                          - I have one, and should only need one.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:23 PM   #211 
                             - I travel and this comes in handy  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:37 PM   #226 
                                - Driving the east coast is a pain in the ass.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:38 PM   #229 
                                   - Careful what you ask for  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:55 PM   #237 
                                      - Vermont would be better. Its a blood bath there..(nt)  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:58 PM   #238 
                       - We still have mail order rifles. Ever heard of gun broker.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:36 PM   #225 
                          - Not in the Sears catalog anymore.  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:39 PM   #230 
                          - From their web site  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:44 PM   #232 
                             - Hmm.... I must have remembered incorrectly.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 10:02 PM   #239 
                             - Gunbroker is being cautious  Straw Man   Jul-11-10 03:09 AM   #257 
                    - "may" being the operative word.  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 08:55 PM   #196 
           - Military rifles are already heavily restricted under the NFA and have been for 8 decades.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 12:33 PM   #143 
              - What most are really referring to  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 04:48 PM   #177 
                 - Dont see any 30 round magazines  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:26 PM   #185 
  - OK, here are the thoughts that have been in my mind and I ask that you grant  Nuclear Unicorn   Jul-09-10 09:42 AM   #99 
  - None of those are true.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:55 AM   #103 
  - Thank-you  Nuclear Unicorn   Jul-09-10 10:16 AM   #116 
  - Police wear the armor that best suits the threats they usually face.  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 11:01 AM   #122 
  - Exactly all armor is a tradeoff in protection vs. encurmberence.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 12:25 PM   #140 
  - He was totally wrong about banning  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 08:40 PM   #194 
     - Best ban duct tape, too.  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 08:59 PM   #197 
     - I wouldn't try it  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:25 PM   #212 
        - ROFL.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:38 PM   #228 
        - Try it and find out if  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:51 PM   #235 
        - But it shows the inanity of such restrictions.  X_Digger   Jul-09-10 09:48 PM   #234 
           - All I can say is  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 10:02 PM   #240 
     - Which serves no purpose.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:03 PM   #199 
     - Kinda like speed limits  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:28 PM   #215 
        - Not everyone. Some pay for the charge to become a non moving violation  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:37 PM   #227 
           - Welcome to America  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 10:05 PM   #241 
              - All about what you can pay for..  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 10:07 PM   #242 
     - No I want to destroy a stupid law like that one.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:04 PM   #200 
        - That makes sense.  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:31 PM   #218 
           - Stupid laws, like prohibition  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:35 PM   #223 
  - The flak vest I  cowman   Jul-10-10 08:48 AM   #248 
  - Here is the difference between an "assault weapon" and a "sporting rifle."  benEzra   Jul-09-10 11:07 AM   #123 
  - Absolutely absurd  Oregone   Jul-09-10 11:26 AM   #129 
  - Hey, here's another example:  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 04:42 PM   #175 
     - What country is the picture hosted in? (ie how much can you pay)  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:27 PM   #186 
     - A better analogy would be Britney at 26 in a black dress, and Britney at 26 in a blue dress.  benEzra   Jul-09-10 09:05 PM   #201 
  - The North Hollywood Bank Robbery was an anomoly  RamboLiberal   Jul-09-10 05:40 PM   #180 
     - Yup never bring a handgun to a rifle fight.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:06 PM   #202 
  - After tha Bull-in-the ring stuff, I'm glad I followed your adivce to "hold back." nt  SteveM   Jul-09-10 01:33 PM   #155 
  - What is the difference between a 20 year old at 11:59 PM on their birthday and a minute later  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 03:35 PM   #166 
  - we move lines too  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 03:55 PM   #171 
     - Right, so, what's your problem?  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 04:02 PM   #172 
        - Sure they can disagree. But reason and logic should be there. Not FUD  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 04:16 PM   #173 
           - You are going in a circle  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 04:37 PM   #174 
              - My point is gun control is a worthless bamboozle  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:14 PM   #182 
              - That's not the subject of the thread  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:11 PM   #205 
                 - Whats the point there, please remind me..  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:18 PM   #207 
                    - Okay, you just plain old don't like law in general  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:26 PM   #213 
                       - Law is enforced based on socio economic basis  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:29 PM   #216 
                          - Never saw a poor guy go to jail for insider trading, but whatever. /nt  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:31 PM   #220 
                             - Or many millionaires on death row.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:33 PM   #221 
                                - Federal convicts?  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:42 PM   #231 
                                   - More than 8/10th would be black..  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:52 PM   #236 
              - If they feel what is "best" is violating the Constitution well then it doesn't really matter what  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:09 PM   #203 
                 - Okay, so, there's been no federal case on this thing?  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:22 PM   #209 
                    - There is very little precedent until now.  Statistical   Jul-09-10 09:34 PM   #222 
  - ALL RIGHT EVERYBODY, FULL STOP FOR A MINUTE!!!  PavePusher   Jul-09-10 05:12 PM   #179 
     - It's simple  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 05:43 PM   #181 
     - Your age of consent is wrong...  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:23 PM   #184 
     - Depends on the state.  AtheistCrusader   Jul-09-10 07:24 PM   #190 
        - Seen "prosecutorial description"  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 08:22 PM   #191 
           - Oh you have, have you?  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:27 PM   #214 
              - Thats when a rape case  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 09:31 PM   #219 
                 - "discretion", nitwit  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:35 PM   #224 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-09-10 09:48 PM   #233 
                    - Name calling. Nice.  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 10:53 PM   #243 
     - Again, the comparable law on firearms would be the National Firearms Act.  benEzra   Jul-09-10 09:17 PM   #206 
        - Black lingerie is killer.  safeinOhio   Jul-09-10 09:23 PM   #210 
        - Yeah... That is in fact done in some contexts  jberryhill   Jul-09-10 09:30 PM   #217 
           - Ah, but again, you're once again comparing qualitatively different things,  benEzra   Jul-09-10 11:00 PM   #244 
     - Stoner..  Pavulon   Jul-09-10 06:20 PM   #183 

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