X_Digger
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Fri May-21-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #100 |
| 102. Relevant re the increase of more people resisting via firearms. |
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If more people are resisting with firearms, then a study before the popularization of handguns for personal defense has less value. About as much value as resisting v complying when the arms of the time were cutlasses (cutlaii?).
Kleck's was the first study to specifically look at resistance via firearms, IIRC. That, or a Journal of Trauma Medicine article by.. umm Goertz? I know I've got the article around somewhere.
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| -Pine Bluff Burger King Worker Shoots Alleged Robber |
oneshooter |
May-21-10 01:53 PM |
#0 |
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One brave woman. (n/t) |
spin |
May-21-10 01:54 PM |
#1 |
  -
Brave or stupid |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:07 PM |
#5 |
| -
You would have to be in her position to know... |
spin |
May-21-10 04:14 PM |
#54 |
| -
This story is unpossible |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 01:58 PM |
#2 |
| -
Employees should know that. Its not their fucking money |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:06 PM |
#4 |
| -
No but it is their lives. |
oneshooter |
May-21-10 02:13 PM |
#7 |
| -
"Better to die fighting than be a sheeple." |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:19 PM |
#8 |
| -
Paul Dennis Reid |
one-eyed fat man |
May-21-10 02:48 PM |
#19 |
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This robber's name was Jason Robinson |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:06 PM |
#24 |
| -
You want to be fucking victim |
cowman |
May-21-10 06:18 PM |
#66 |
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No one wants to be a victim. Given the choice, Id prefer being an alive one |
Oregone |
May-21-10 06:59 PM |
#69 |
| -
And you have no idea what was going on in the guys head. |
oneshooter |
May-21-10 03:35 PM |
#32 |
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Well, at least its something to go on |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:49 PM |
#41 |
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The point is this... |
57_TomCat |
May-21-10 05:25 PM |
#59 |
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"The victim alone has the information necessary..." |
Oregone |
May-21-10 05:36 PM |
#62 |
| -
Are you going to rely on the criminal... |
PavePusher |
May-22-10 02:14 PM |
#114 |
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A bit of a joke with some truth woven in |
Oregone |
May-22-10 04:33 PM |
#116 |
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If a robber couldn't convince you that they're willing to kill or maim you.. |
X_Digger |
May-22-10 04:59 PM |
#121 |
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We were talking about criminals with guns in peoples faces. |
PavePusher |
May-22-10 05:27 PM |
#122 |
| -
And when the robbery is done, do you have some guarantee that you won't |
AtheistCrusader |
May-21-10 02:21 PM |
#9 |
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For fuck's sake. The best and worse scenarios aren't guaranteed |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:31 PM |
#12 |
| -
How much do you have to lose? |
AtheistCrusader |
May-21-10 02:49 PM |
#20 |
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It has nothing to do with how much you value your life. Its about how you interpret risk |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:10 PM |
#26 |
| -
55% |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
May-21-10 03:36 PM |
#34 |
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Die? |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:45 PM |
#37 |
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victims actively resisted in only 7 percent of the robberies...accounted for 51 percent of the death |
Oregone |
May-21-10 04:14 PM |
#53 |
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In fairness, correlation/causation |
AtheistCrusader |
May-21-10 05:13 PM |
#57 |
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While I understand your points... |
Oregone |
May-21-10 05:27 PM |
#60 |
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It seems like the situation where you are in the most danger |
AtheistCrusader |
May-21-10 05:53 PM |
#65 |
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If you do not consider the value of your life, how can you weigh risk against it? |
AtheistCrusader |
May-21-10 05:15 PM |
#58 |
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Silly you.... |
Oregone |
May-21-10 05:30 PM |
#61 |
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And we should believe the promises of criminals? |
PavePusher |
May-22-10 02:10 PM |
#113 |
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Profanity doesn't offend me |
Oregone |
May-22-10 04:34 PM |
#117 |
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In respect for Skinner's request, we try to keep things civil down here. N/T |
GreenStormCloud |
May-22-10 06:28 PM |
#123 |
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Moral of the story -- |
brendan120678 |
May-21-10 02:02 PM |
#3 |
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Again with the drive by unrecs! n/t |
oneshooter |
May-21-10 02:10 PM |
#6 |
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Proud to UNREC |
katandmoon |
May-21-10 02:23 PM |
#10 |
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You hate it when people refuse to be victims, huh? |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 02:29 PM |
#11 |
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This laborer who has to risk their life for shareholders' profits remains a perpetual victim |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:32 PM |
#13 |
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Yeah, I'm sure she was thinking of the shareholders. |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 02:34 PM |
#14 |
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As I said earlier, takes a little stupid to do something like this |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:37 PM |
#15 |
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Sheesh |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 02:44 PM |
#16 |
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Yeah, and she sets a perfect example for the next Darwin Award winner |
Oregone |
May-21-10 02:47 PM |
#18 |
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And here I thought SU was the only one here who could make me chuckle n/t |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 02:56 PM |
#22 |
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I bet the Lane Bryant women and the Brown's Chicken workers wish they had that choice. |
DonP |
May-21-10 03:41 PM |
#35 |
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Yes, but at least they were cooperative |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 03:44 PM |
#36 |
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Afterall, rules should be based on horrendous exceptions |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:46 PM |
#40 |
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Submitting to a criminal is obviously your choice - good luck with that. |
DonP |
May-21-10 04:02 PM |
#48 |
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Don't forget that Starbucks in D.C. |
Euromutt |
May-21-10 08:54 PM |
#96 |
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Not by him. |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 02:57 PM |
#23 |
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Stupid? |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 02:55 PM |
#21 |
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Pretty much a good way to say "stupid" |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:18 PM |
#28 |
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If the robber had been smart, he wouldn't be holding up a lousy Burger King |
Euromutt |
May-22-10 01:04 AM |
#111 |
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The man was clearly an idiot |
Oregone |
May-22-10 04:34 PM |
#118 |
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Why? n/t |
oneshooter |
May-21-10 03:30 PM |
#30 |
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Why? Discuss, much? n/t |
PavePusher |
May-22-10 02:15 PM |
#115 |
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Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce. Hey, that's my fuckin' gun! |
JBoy |
May-21-10 02:45 PM |
#17 |
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Could just as easily been her shot. |
louis-t |
May-21-10 03:09 PM |
#25 |
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Im pretty sure fighting back and dying for BK is better than cooperating and walking away |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:12 PM |
#27 |
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Get it right. NO ONE is suggesting she die for BK |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 03:24 PM |
#29 |
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What a joke |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:30 PM |
#31 |
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All it takes is one time, or do you have 9 lives? |
shadowrider |
May-21-10 03:35 PM |
#33 |
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Huh? And all it takes is for her to of gotten unlucky one time |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:45 PM |
#38 |
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I guess the cases cited in post #35 don't exist in your dojo. |
friendly_iconoclast |
May-21-10 03:53 PM |
#43 |
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No, because the *reality* is top predictor of death in robbery is non-cooperation |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:58 PM |
#44 |
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That study was before millions of Americans began to carry concealed. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 07:44 PM |
#75 |
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Silly you.... |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:53 PM |
#79 |
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She grabbed it AFTER he set it down and took his hand away. N/T |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:29 PM |
#88 |
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And? |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:35 PM |
#90 |
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As I said above, it all depends on the situation ... |
spin |
May-21-10 04:37 PM |
#55 |
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While I agree that you must consider certain variables... |
Oregone |
May-21-10 04:47 PM |
#56 |
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You make a valid point .... |
spin |
May-21-10 07:28 PM |
#73 |
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Of course there are exceptions |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:34 PM |
#74 |
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BK, like a other similar corporations teaches employees to NOT resist. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 03:46 PM |
#39 |
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Oregone doesn't seem to be able to grasp that. |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 03:52 PM |
#42 |
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Yes, I understand she was being stupid (acting on primitive, animialistic instincts) |
Oregone |
May-21-10 03:59 PM |
#45 |
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Wow, you're always the little man in these threads. |
proteus_lives |
May-21-10 04:01 PM |
#47 |
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Im not passive and its not self defense that bothers me |
Oregone |
May-21-10 04:06 PM |
#52 |
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Yup, "primitive", e.g. she had more balls than some folks around here I guess. Ntxt |
DonP |
May-21-10 04:04 PM |
#49 |
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"Balls" means the suspension of intellectual thought? |
Oregone |
May-21-10 04:06 PM |
#51 |
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"Yes, I understand she was being stupid (acting on primitive, animialistic instincts)" |
Straw Man |
May-22-10 12:56 AM |
#110 |
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Not exactly |
Oregone |
May-22-10 04:39 PM |
#119 |
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I will refer once again the "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker |
Euromutt |
May-22-10 08:28 PM |
#124 |
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Some just can't accept that the world isn't Sunnybrook Farm... |
friendly_iconoclast |
May-21-10 03:59 PM |
#46 |
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Some can't accept that they more often kill non-cooperating victims |
Oregone |
May-21-10 04:05 PM |
#50 |
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Each person has to evaluate the probabilities of their own situation. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 05:41 PM |
#63 |
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No shit. But it helps to know you have a 14 X chance of death resisting |
Oregone |
May-21-10 05:45 PM |
#64 |
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Oregone, PMFJI, but I'm curious as to where you got that "14 X chance of death" figure |
slackmaster |
May-21-10 06:20 PM |
#67 |
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From this study: |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:02 PM |
#70 |
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From the cited abstract... |
slackmaster |
May-21-10 07:18 PM |
#71 |
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"but they did not come from the cited abstract." |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:24 PM |
#72 |
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Guns are outlawed in Chicago. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 07:49 PM |
#77 |
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"using a study of unarmed resistance to argue against armed resistance" |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:54 PM |
#80 |
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Check the date of the study. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 07:57 PM |
#81 |
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You make no sense. This employee had no concealed weapon. |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:02 PM |
#82 |
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Workers are rarely armed, but sometimes they are. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:11 PM |
#85 |
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You're the one who posted the sucky link to an abstract when I asked for a cite |
slackmaster |
May-21-10 08:35 PM |
#89 |
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It could be, yes |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:36 PM |
#91 |
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That study is obsolete. The dynamics have since greatly changed. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 07:46 PM |
#76 |
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This woman did not have a concealed weapon. |
Oregone |
May-21-10 07:52 PM |
#78 |
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You seem to be arguing against any resistance using older studies. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:07 PM |
#83 |
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If she had a clear path to the gun, a struggle would not have followed |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:10 PM |
#84 |
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She did have a clear path to the gun. She grabbed it and retained control of it. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:28 PM |
#87 |
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"she picked up the gun and they began to wrestle" |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:38 PM |
#92 |
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She gained control of the gun by grabbing it. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:43 PM |
#93 |
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"It appears that she may have been hesitant to shoot him" |
Oregone |
May-21-10 08:48 PM |
#94 |
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Control of gun = had it in her hand. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:54 PM |
#95 |
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Thats a low bar |
Oregone |
May-21-10 10:43 PM |
#101 |
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Don't try to generalize, yet then whip it back to this specific case. |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 10:02 PM |
#98 |
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1984 Study, also when public attitudes toward handguns was different.. |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 10:15 PM |
#99 |
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You didn't read that well prior to posting, did ya? |
Oregone |
May-21-10 10:41 PM |
#100 |
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Relevant re the increase of more people resisting via firearms. |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 11:08 PM |
#102 |
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Yeah, but this person resisted prior to having a fire arm |
Oregone |
May-21-10 11:15 PM |
#103 |
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If you're making generalizations about resistance v compliance |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 11:23 PM |
#104 |
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I don't even know what you are getting at anymore |
Oregone |
May-21-10 11:26 PM |
#105 |
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See your post #56. |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 11:34 PM |
#106 |
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facepalm |
Oregone |
May-21-10 11:39 PM |
#107 |
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Then don't make generalizations as though it's still relevant in today's culture. n/t |
X_Digger |
May-21-10 11:42 PM |
#108 |
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Its relevant to a woman who was unarmed. She had no CCW. |
Oregone |
May-21-10 11:59 PM |
#109 |
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You are wrong. She cooperated before she had a gun. Her resistance began... |
GreenStormCloud |
May-22-10 12:04 PM |
#112 |
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Now you are taking quite a few liberties with language in your explanation |
Oregone |
May-22-10 04:45 PM |
#120 |
| -
Have you considered a career as a tap dancer? |
GreenStormCloud |
May-22-10 09:54 PM |
#125 |
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Every night I close the restaurant I think security. |
era veteran |
May-21-10 06:46 PM |
#68 |
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The crook set the gun down. This is a special case. |
GreenStormCloud |
May-21-10 08:25 PM |
#86 |
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He should've said "Gimme the money pretty please".... |
east texas lib |
May-21-10 08:59 PM |
#97 |
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