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Reply #100: I want them to be treated as rights [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. I want them to be treated as rights
guaranteed in the constitution, not as some other object that can be banned easily. Nor do I want the government being given license to harass and penalize those who use it.

Rights should be treated special as in guaranteed; does that not = treated special as in singled out for special limitations.

For instance, do you feel we should have to get a special license from the government to be eligible for free speech? And should we ever misuse it, or find ourselves afoul of the law in some other way (or indeed, be victims of a crime), have that right taken away for life? The first amendment is special isn't it? Certainly beyond say, parking laws. So that should come with certain responsibiliites.

To deny the government the right to arbitrarily strip you of this right and penalize you for whatever they consider a misuse would deny all responsibility you have to use it responsibly. No?

Or is in fact the 2nd amendment the only "special" right?
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  -Rape victims required to report rape within 48 hours or face charges. Fire_Medic_Dave  Oct-05-09 10:57 PM   #0 
  - that is fucked up  DaveinMD   Oct-05-09 10:59 PM   #1 
  - I'm quite aware of it. Thanks. Just wanted to see if people are consistent in their beliefs.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:02 PM   #2 
  - Kinda puts a different light on things.  Hoopla Phil   Oct-05-09 11:03 PM   #3 
  - I'm guessing I'll be roundly criticized, as if I care.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:07 PM   #6 
     - Oh yeah. Better have a double layer flame suit on.  Hoopla Phil   Oct-05-09 11:14 PM   #12 
        - I'm used to the heat.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:19 PM   #14 
  - link please................n/t  Tuesday Afternoon   Oct-05-09 11:04 PM   #4 
  - There is no link. There is no proposed law about reporting rape just gun theft.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:06 PM   #5 
     - interesting analogy. n/t  Tuesday Afternoon   Oct-05-09 11:09 PM   #8 
        - I was hoping it would evoke an emotional response. What do you think?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:10 PM   #9 
           - I think I need to think about it. Off the top of my head, my first thought  Tuesday Afternoon   Oct-05-09 11:13 PM   #10 
  - Seems fair  JonQ   Oct-05-09 11:08 PM   #7 
  - and just what penalties do you propose for the police and DA's who refuse to believe the victim,  niyad   Oct-05-09 11:14 PM   #11 
  - Thanks for your concern.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:18 PM   #13 
     - I notice you didn't answer my question about penalties for the police and DA's-- but then,  niyad   Oct-05-09 11:35 PM   #19 
        - Since there isn't such a law proposed I didn't think it required an answer.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:38 PM   #22 
        - you were the one who postulated such a law--I was merely asking about some of the attendant  niyad   Oct-05-09 11:56 PM   #32 
           - Justing pointing out the absurdity of blaming victims of crime.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-06-09 12:08 AM   #34 
        - That should probably be posed in a separate thread. Guess you could start one. . .  Hoopla Phil   Oct-05-09 11:39 PM   #25 
           - why? the question was directly related to this thread.  niyad   Oct-05-09 11:54 PM   #30 
              - In my opinion it was not. It strayed and deflected from the OP. So in my  Hoopla Phil   Oct-06-09 12:24 AM   #38 
  - soooo ~ you are equating rape and gun theft???  KarenS   Oct-05-09 11:20 PM   #15 
  - Too much?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:22 PM   #16 
  - I think a rapist on the loose and a person with a stolen firearm both constitute major threats  slackmaster   Oct-06-09 11:20 AM   # 
  - Your overwhelming need to play the victim has put you over the edge  jgraz   Oct-05-09 11:24 PM   #17 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-05-09 11:39 PM   #24 
  - And yet you've somehow managed to slide under all of our low expectations for you.  jgraz   Oct-05-09 11:44 PM   #26 
     - I'm happy for potential rape victims to shoot their attackers. I know you don't feel the same.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:47 PM   #27 
        - Are you sure you don't mean gun theft victims? I know you can't tell the difference.  jgraz   Oct-05-09 11:51 PM   #28 
           - I'm fine with gun theft victims shooting the thieves also.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:52 PM   #29 
              - Are you sure you don't mean rape victims? I know you can't tell the difference.  jgraz   Oct-05-09 11:55 PM   #31 
                 - You are still having trouble with complex thought and reading I see.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-06-09 12:08 AM   #33 
  - I can't help noticing you're not arguing your position  Euromutt   Oct-06-09 01:49 AM   #40 
  - Do you even know what an argument is?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 10:06 AM   #43 
  - I notice you're avoiding the points made  Euromutt   Oct-06-09 03:46 PM   #94 
  - What if you know who stole it and what pawn shop they sold it to?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-06-09 11:21 AM   #55 
  - Having your gun stolen is not the same thing as  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 02:14 AM   #41 
  - If your gun is stolen and you don't report it, you've just handed a criminal a weapon  jgraz   Oct-06-09 10:03 AM   #42 
     - No, if your gun is stolen and you don't report it, your gun has been stolen.  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 10:25 AM   #45 
        - I thought we had "responsible" gun owners on this board  jgraz   Oct-06-09 10:47 AM   #47 
           - I would settle for "responsible" posters...  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 11:08 AM   #51 
              - I notice you avoid the part where I actually show you the depravity of your argument.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:06 PM   #62 
                 - That part took place in your alternate universe, jgraz...  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 01:28 PM   #69 
  - I find this post inconsistant...  krispos42   Oct-06-09 01:41 PM   #70 
     - You response makes no sense. How am I saying it's simple property theft?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:51 PM   #73 
  - lol, you know Dave. If DU kept numbers on unrecomend I think you'd set a record.  Hoopla Phil   Oct-05-09 11:27 PM   #18 
  - Just call me Mister Unpopular.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-05-09 11:36 PM   #20 
  - Hell, I'll cancel out one unrecommend. (n/t)  spin   Oct-05-09 11:37 PM   #21 
  - Me too but . . .  Hoopla Phil   Oct-05-09 11:38 PM   #23 
     - It's at +1 now  slackmaster   Oct-06-09 11:21 AM   #54 
     - Me three. K&R  GreenStormCloud   Oct-06-09 12:11 PM   #58 
  - Actually there are lots of crimes it's a crime to not report.  smoogatz   Oct-06-09 03:09 PM   #82 
  - Oh. Great idea.  ezgoingrl   Oct-06-09 12:18 AM   #35 
  - I agree, it is asinine to punish crime victims.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-06-09 12:21 AM   #36 
     - If you don't report a stolen gun, you're not a victim, you're an accomplice  jgraz   Oct-06-09 10:14 AM   #44 
        - What about a car?  JonQ   Oct-06-09 10:27 AM   #46 
        - Oh come on. Cars and medication are not designed to be weapons.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 10:53 AM   #48 
           - Ah you're right  JonQ   Oct-06-09 10:59 AM   #49 
           - You'd better ice your groin after those stretches  jgraz   Oct-06-09 11:05 AM   #50 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-06-09 11:16 AM   #52 
              - Your childishness just shows how weak your arguments are.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 12:56 PM   #60 
                 - IOW you can't refute the argument  Treo   Oct-06-09 01:07 PM   #63 
                    - Another WHO ME? post  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:11 PM   #65 
                       - 4 posts out of a thousand?  Treo   Oct-06-09 01:22 PM   #67 
                          - You need to check your facts  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:45 PM   #72 
                             - I see no "mistake"  Treo   Oct-06-09 01:58 PM   #76 
                                - Of course you don't.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 03:24 PM   #88 
                                   - I ask again  Treo   Oct-06-09 03:43 PM   #92 
                                      - Like I said, admit your error and we'll have a discussion.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 03:44 PM   #93 
              - I think you're really missing the point most of us are getting at  JonQ   Oct-06-09 03:10 PM   #83 
                 - I get your point. The problem is that it's inconsistent with other pro-gun points  jgraz   Oct-06-09 03:33 PM   #90 
           - Stop repeating that BS  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 11:39 AM   #56 
           - Yeah, that's really different.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:00 PM   #61 
              - No, stealing 10^36 pennies would cause much more misery  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 01:24 PM   #68 
                 - OK, so you just demonstrated how irrelevant and ridiculous your analogy is  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:53 PM   #74 
                    - Elective reporting of victimization seems to be the status quo.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Oct-06-09 02:34 PM   #81 
           - Nonetheless, you're an accomplice after the fact to the thief, aren't you?  krispos42   Oct-06-09 01:44 PM   #71 
              - You're making my argument for me.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:59 PM   #78 
              - So then shouldn't it apply to the victim of every crime?  JonQ   Oct-06-09 03:10 PM   #84 
                 - But guns are special, are they not?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 03:20 PM   #86 
                    - Indeed guns are special  JonQ   Oct-06-09 03:38 PM   #91 
                    - You're not addressing the central point.  jgraz   Oct-06-09 03:46 PM   #95 
                       - Please don't be intentionally obtuse.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Oct-06-09 04:05 PM   #98 
                       - You should learn how to follow a thread before you call other people morons  jgraz   Oct-06-09 04:11 PM   #101 
                       - I want them to be treated as rights  JonQ   Oct-06-09 04:10 PM   #100 
                          - How does a 48-hour reporting requirement impinge on your (alleged) RKBA?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 04:18 PM   #102 
                    - This is one of my favorite sophistries...  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 03:55 PM   #96 
                       - One of your favorite sophistries is using incredibly ridiculous strawmen?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 04:03 PM   #97 
              - According to Paulsby  Treo   Oct-06-09 02:04 PM   #79 
        - What if you know who stole it and what pawn shop they sold it to?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Oct-06-09 11:20 AM   #53 
           - And what if the gun fairy came down and found your gun and brought you some candy?  jgraz   Oct-06-09 01:12 PM   #66 
           - That's not fair, jgraz. Use standard American English.  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 01:55 PM   #75 
           - Welcome to reality  Treo   Oct-06-09 02:09 PM   #80 
           - Impossible, Dave  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 01:59 PM   #77 
  - Ahy Nay!!!!  dashrif   Oct-06-09 12:23 AM   #37 
  - Rape is over the top, but I get the point  Taitertots   Oct-06-09 12:42 AM   #39 
  - Excellent use of Reductio Ad Absurdum, Dave!  slackmaster   Oct-06-09 11:48 AM   #57 
  - Where you going with this, Dave?  rd_kent   Oct-06-09 12:47 PM   #59 
  - See the thread about making it a crime to not report stolen friearms.  OneTenthofOnePercent   Oct-06-09 01:08 PM   #64 
  - You've committed the fallacy of drawing a weak analogy.  smoogatz   Oct-06-09 03:13 PM   #85 
  - You understand, of course, that your own analogy is open to crisicism  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 03:23 PM   #87 
     - Guns don't kill people, tigers kill people?  smoogatz   Oct-06-09 03:30 PM   #89 
        - No analogy is perfect  TPaine7   Oct-06-09 04:06 PM   #99 
  - Locking  Wickerman   Oct-06-09 04:19 PM   #103 

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