Reply #23: Kleck himself conceded that not all of the people who believed

[TPaine7]

they were in mortal danger would have been killed. As I recall, he used a rough estimate of 1/10 to compare to the actual homocide rate. His statement was completely and utterly consistent with my argument.

This is precisely what one would expect. Felons put people in legitimate fear for their lives in order to gain cooperation. Most do not intend to kill anyone, some even use unloaded or fake guns. This has nothing whatsoever to do with what the victim has a perfect right to believe and do in that situation. Every sane person knows that. A citizen in that situation has no more obligation to play the reverse lottery than a police officer in that situation.

The survey didn't ask about "fear for their lives".

It asked whether they BELIEVED that a death would or would probably have resulted...

Leave it to you to pretend that being in fear for one's life and believing that death would probably result except for defensive gun use are very different things from a practical standpoint.

Furthermore, as you emphatically state, the survey was about what the victims "BELIEVED." You are fallaciously conflating that with what would have actually happened but for the DGUs:

Oh, and if people didn't use guns to "defend" themselves, there would have been a couple of hundred thousand more homicides in the US in the last few years than there actually were...

This is sophistry. You intentionally and repeatedly conflate BELIEF and REALITY. That may serve your purposes, but it is incorrect, no matter how legitimate and reasonable the belief of each victim. And you know it.