Statistical
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Thu Jul-30-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #55 |
| 57. Well I doubt Feinstein will listen to me but I will write my senator. |
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The govt should be required to prove before putting a foreign conviction into the NICS system.
Of course the govt likely could reach agreements like your hypothetical bank robber in Canada scenario.
US govt verifies that robbery in Canada is factually similar to robbery charge in US and courts in Canada afford a similar level of due process. At that point they could have a standing agreement that robbery charge in Canada = robbery charge in US and therefore automatically entered into the NICS.
As long as those standing agreements are publicly available and can be contested if/when facts change I have no problem with that.
However right now the law as written is junk. A citizen of the US should not be required to prove a spying conviction in a Kangaroo court in Iran is not valid in order to get their right to own a firearm back.
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| -Feinstein introduces bill to keep guns out of those convicted of felonies overseas |
derby378 |
Jul-29-09 03:36 PM |
#0 |
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If Feinstein is convicted of war profiteering will shel be able to keep her concealed weapon permit? |
tularetom |
Jul-29-09 03:45 PM |
#1 |
| -
Why not! |
divideandconquer |
Jul-29-09 03:54 PM |
#2 |
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Because should your rights in your home nation be dictated.... |
eqfan592 |
Jul-29-09 03:59 PM |
#3 |
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Here's an interesting case to consider... |
derby378 |
Jul-29-09 04:04 PM |
#5 |
| -
Wow.... |
eqfan592 |
Jul-29-09 04:31 PM |
#13 |
| -
hmm |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:33 PM |
#14 |
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A kilo of cocaine is not legal in Mexico. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-29-09 04:58 PM |
#24 |
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so? |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:09 PM |
#28 |
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Nice strawman, iverglas |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 10:34 AM |
#104 |
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here's a dictionary |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:27 PM |
#108 |
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Really? |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 04:47 PM |
#113 |
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sad |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:59 PM |
#114 |
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Well, keep smacking yourself then |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 05:38 PM |
#118 |
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It's illegal to cross into the US with a kilo of cocaine |
rl6214 |
Aug-02-09 10:00 PM |
#123 |
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After re-reading the bill as it's written... |
eqfan592 |
Jul-29-09 04:36 PM |
#16 |
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ah, if only you could see post 29 |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:14 PM |
#31 |
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Because violating another nation's political laws should not deny a |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 04:06 PM |
#6 |
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what's that now? |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:25 PM |
#10 |
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Wow, just go ahead a make shit up. Seems to work real good for you. |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 04:42 PM |
#17 |
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I'll try it someday; meanwhile, you remain the master |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:55 PM |
#20 |
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Blaw blaw blaw. Isn't that how so many of your posts start? LOL |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 05:15 PM |
#34 |
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Armed robbery isn't a "political law" |
Angleae |
Jul-29-09 04:55 PM |
#21 |
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gosh, no shit |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:58 PM |
#23 |
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Burden of proof |
derby378 |
Jul-29-09 05:03 PM |
#27 |
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Q. Where does it say that? |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:13 PM |
#30 |
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"if the convicted person establishes.." |
X_Digger |
Jul-29-09 05:19 PM |
#36 |
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I do beg your pardon |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:39 PM |
#38 |
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Asked and answered. |
X_Digger |
Jul-29-09 06:04 PM |
#40 |
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nah |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 06:16 PM |
#41 |
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Where is this magic IF you keep refering to? |
Statistical |
Jul-29-09 10:36 PM |
#49 |
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right |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 10:07 AM |
#55 |
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Well I doubt Feinstein will listen to me but I will write my senator. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 10:14 AM |
#57 |
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here's some wording for you |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 11:10 AM |
#61 |
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Because thats not a choice at all. |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 10:32 AM |
#103 |
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you're absolutely right |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:33 PM |
#109 |
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I will tell you what, iver, here's a compromise |
rd_kent |
Aug-03-09 02:16 PM |
#125 |
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Looks good on it's face BUT, how many D.U. members could/would |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 04:04 PM |
#4 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Jul-29-09 04:34 PM |
#15 |
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As noted, the conviction would have to be for something also illegal in the U.S. |
Euromutt |
Jul-31-09 05:26 AM |
#82 |
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once again, lovely to see all the good sense here |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:18 PM |
#7 |
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And how about you address the points people ACTUALLY raised? |
TheWraith |
Jul-29-09 04:23 PM |
#8 |
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how about you address what I already said? |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:25 PM |
#11 |
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Probably cause posting flame bait is much easier for a lawyer. Try to anger |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 04:49 PM |
#19 |
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"Try to anger your opponent into saying something stupid." |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:59 PM |
#25 |
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Odd, it was about the same time you entered. . . |
Hoopla Phil |
Jul-29-09 05:14 PM |
#32 |
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For starters, remember those two journalists kidnapped by North Korean soldiers? |
derby378 |
Jul-29-09 04:24 PM |
#9 |
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for starters, why don't you try reading what you posted? |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 04:29 PM |
#12 |
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No snarkiness is warranted - it's all a matter of burden of proof |
derby378 |
Jul-29-09 04:47 PM |
#18 |
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that's twice now |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:15 PM |
#33 |
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WTF? How else could it be interperted? |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 10:30 AM |
#60 |
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what I'm not getting |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 11:12 AM |
#62 |
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That would be upon govt agencies to comply with the law. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 11:24 AM |
#65 |
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I'm on board in the case of felonies |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-29-09 05:01 PM |
#26 |
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I guess being from Canada you don't quite understand the FUNDAMENTALS of our system |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 10:49 AM |
#105 |
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you guess wrong |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:19 PM |
#107 |
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Im confused now |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 04:43 PM |
#112 |
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I wouldn't know |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 05:07 PM |
#115 |
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If you dont know, then why are you weiging in on the subject |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 05:34 PM |
#117 |
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sorry you failed to understand a single thing |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 06:54 PM |
#120 |
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No, I think its you who failed to understand |
rd_kent |
Aug-03-09 12:07 AM |
#124 |
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I oppose this bill. |
gorfle |
Jul-29-09 04:56 PM |
#22 |
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because you think you can just keep pretending it doesn't say what it says |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:16 PM |
#35 |
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It is possible to be charged with a crime in foreign country that is also a crime in the US and ... |
Statistical |
Jul-29-09 10:15 PM |
#47 |
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sigh |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 10:06 AM |
#54 |
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Let me help you with the highlighting you started 6 words too late. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 10:21 AM |
#58 |
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thanks all the same, but I was addressing what you actually said |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 11:16 AM |
#63 |
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The persons entering stuff into the NICS is not above the law. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 11:38 AM |
#67 |
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and I don't doubt for a second that you are 100% sincere |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:09 PM |
#69 |
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I think the language issue we are in agreement with |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:25 PM |
#72 |
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hand-wringing |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:41 PM |
#76 |
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Not would but could. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:50 PM |
#78 |
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nope |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:53 PM |
#79 |
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It "could" be tweaked in committe. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:56 PM |
#81 |
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I don't think this is a bad idea. n/t |
Raskolnik |
Jul-29-09 05:10 PM |
#29 |
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Given that we would be.... |
eqfan592 |
Jul-29-09 05:30 PM |
#37 |
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look! over here! evidence! |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 05:43 PM |
#39 |
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I get the nagging feeling that one way or another, this already exists |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-29-09 07:04 PM |
#42 |
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I would feel better about it... |
eqfan592 |
Jul-29-09 07:06 PM |
#43 |
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I imagine the process would be the same as a US felon getting voting rights restored. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-29-09 07:15 PM |
#44 |
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but c'mon |
iverglas |
Jul-29-09 07:41 PM |
#45 |
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Of course not. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-30-09 01:08 AM |
#51 |
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That isn't what the bill proposes. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 01:31 AM |
#53 |
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What? |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-30-09 12:18 PM |
# |
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So violation of due process until you appeal (assumming you have time & money) is ok? |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:29 PM |
#73 |
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The bone of contention is the burden of proof |
Euromutt |
Aug-02-09 05:51 PM |
#119 |
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Why would you imagine that? |
Statistical |
Jul-29-09 10:17 PM |
#48 |
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No, but there are some circumstances where a felon can get firearms rights restored too. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-30-09 01:04 AM |
#50 |
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Restoring firearms right is FAR FAR FAR more difficult than voting rights. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 01:28 AM |
#52 |
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In some jurisdictions, perhaps, but not all. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jul-30-09 12:15 PM |
#70 |
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Feinenstein reminds me of Charlie. nt |
Tejas |
Jul-29-09 09:17 PM |
#46 |
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So a woman from Iran who was convicted of drinking a beer in a bar would be barred from owning a gun |
slackmaster |
Jul-30-09 10:12 AM |
#56 |
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Of course iverglass will tell you said person could appeal it so that makes it ok. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 10:23 AM |
#59 |
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so you really think that your authorities are going to enter an Iranian conviction for drinking beer |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 11:17 AM |
#64 |
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How isn't the point. The fact that it can is. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 11:29 AM |
#66 |
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any evidence needed for something to get entered in NICS? |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:07 PM |
#68 |
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Not the same issue. There will be evidence. A conviction in a foreign court. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:18 PM |
#71 |
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"There will be evidence. A conviction in a foreign court." |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:34 PM |
#74 |
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That sounds about right.... |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:41 PM |
#75 |
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yes |
iverglas |
Jul-30-09 12:48 PM |
#77 |
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Well I should mark my calender because we are closer on an issue than we have ever been before. |
Statistical |
Jul-30-09 12:54 PM |
#80 |
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Yeah, like those dangerous felons |
JonQ |
Jul-31-09 11:50 AM |
#83 |
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I think any law barring foreign-convicted felons needs to be more comprehensive |
derby378 |
Jul-31-09 01:41 PM |
#84 |
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especially if they read as badly as you do |
iverglas |
Jul-31-09 01:55 PM |
#85 |
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Several issues |
JonQ |
Jul-31-09 02:24 PM |
#86 |
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"issues" |
iverglas |
Jul-31-09 04:31 PM |
#89 |
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Yes, for some reason you believe |
JonQ |
Jul-31-09 09:12 PM |
#92 |
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evidently, for some reason YOU believe ... |
iverglas |
Aug-01-09 10:22 PM |
#97 |
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My mistake, in fact you believe that the world consists of the US |
JonQ |
Aug-01-09 10:43 PM |
#100 |
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listen, you are sadly ignorant |
iverglas |
Aug-01-09 10:46 PM |
#101 |
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I fear you are beyond enlightenment |
JonQ |
Aug-02-09 10:58 AM |
#106 |
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"victimized"? |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:36 PM |
#111 |
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It bores you |
JonQ |
Aug-02-09 05:33 PM |
#116 |
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do you imagine |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 06:55 PM |
#121 |
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Um, we don't interact anywhere else |
JonQ |
Aug-02-09 09:26 PM |
#122 |
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I thought that "any court" included foreign courts -- I seem to remember some case... |
aikoaiko |
Jul-31-09 02:40 PM |
#88 |
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This would be a good idea |
rd_kent |
Jul-31-09 02:27 PM |
#87 |
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how about those of us who have gone you several better? |
iverglas |
Jul-31-09 04:38 PM |
#90 |
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Im not arguing that our system is better than another. |
rd_kent |
Aug-01-09 11:34 AM |
#93 |
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yes, and I'm still asking |
iverglas |
Aug-01-09 10:13 PM |
#95 |
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But thats extradition, which is due process |
rd_kent |
Aug-02-09 10:29 AM |
#102 |
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read the thread, please |
iverglas |
Aug-02-09 04:34 PM |
#110 |
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I didn't realize canada was the only other country in the world |
JonQ |
Aug-01-09 05:02 PM |
#94 |
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how absolutely fascinating! |
iverglas |
Aug-01-09 10:18 PM |
#96 |
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So the fact that some countries |
JonQ |
Aug-01-09 10:40 PM |
#99 |
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So basically the poor immigrant trying to escape a tryannical country |
Endangered Specie |
Jul-31-09 08:47 PM |
#91 |
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so basically you |
iverglas |
Aug-01-09 10:23 PM |
#98 |
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