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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. hard cases, bad law ...

We'll just have to wait and see whether a case that demonstrates the problems comes up.

Check this one out.

Associated Press - June 25, 2009 12:55 PM ET

WRIGHT, Wyo. (AP) - Prosecutors have withdrawn a weapons-related charge against a Wright man, citing Wyoming's "castle doctrine" law on self-defense.

An attorney says it may be the first time the year-old statute has been used in Wyoming.

Zebulon Alfred Goodrich was charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment for allegedly pointing a gun at his sister in March. Prosecutors said Tuesday they couldn't meet the burden of proof because of allegations that Goodrich's sister was trying to force her way into the home.

Defense attorney Nick Carter says it's the first time he knows of that the castle doctrine has come into play since it went into effect last summer.

The result would have been the same, under these laws, if he had shot her.

I'll lift the Kentucky law from Indy Lurker's post and assume the Wyoming law is the same (my emphases):
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

... (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

The person in question could be his unarmed 97-pound sister, and he could shoot and kill her with impunity.

I guess we'll just have to wait until it happens. When it does, it will doubtless followed by solemn pronouncements by the NRA-ILA and its bedfellows about the right of people to kill unarmed family members.
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  -Man looking for sandwich shot by homeowner. Fire_Medic_Dave  Jul-23-09 09:07 PM   #0 
  - Looking for rental property at 12:45 a.m.? Very funny.  virgogal   Jul-23-09 09:10 PM   #1 
  - Sandwich?  Xipe Totec   Jul-23-09 09:11 PM   #2 
  - Just giving the criminal the benefit of the doubt. I would hate to seem like a heartless gun nut.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-23-09 09:23 PM   #5 
     - I'll grant you the same courtesy,  Xipe Totec   Jul-23-09 09:32 PM   #9 
     - Thanks.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-23-09 09:35 PM   #10 
        - I dare anyone  yost69   Jul-23-09 09:53 PM   #11 
           - I dare you to make it past 10 posts. n/t  rd_kent   Jul-25-09 04:14 PM   #51 
              - I will. I will just go around like you  yost69   Jul-26-09 05:23 PM   #90 
              - hahahaha  iverglas   Jul-27-09 09:14 AM   #91 
                 - I didn't exactly confuse the two of you  yost69   Jul-27-09 10:34 AM   #93 
              - Oh my  yost69   Jul-27-09 09:59 PM   #95 
     - That was truly in the grand tradition of thread titles. Good job. nt  imdjh   Jul-25-09 11:01 PM   #66 
        - Thanks.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-26-09 01:20 PM   #78 
  - Can you make me a sandwich?  Tiggeroshii   Jul-23-09 09:15 PM   #3 
  - A mistake not to charge McQuerry. He had a duty to warn before using deadly force.  sharesunited   Jul-23-09 09:18 PM   #4 
  - NO - absolutely false. There is no legal duty to warn  dmallind   Jul-23-09 09:24 PM   #7 
  - Aren't you mixing up legal duty with your personal belief that it's always prudent to shoot first?  sharesunited   Jul-23-09 09:30 PM   #8 
  - No  Katya Mullethov   Jul-24-09 12:00 AM   #15 
  - Please cite the state statute requiring a "duty to warn".  Statistical   Jul-24-09 01:49 PM   #24 
  - probably not  iverglas   Jul-24-09 01:54 PM   #25 
     - Why should a law abiding home owner risk injury to lower risk of injury to a felon?  Statistical   Jul-24-09 02:10 PM   #27 
     - why would I even consider responding  iverglas   Jul-24-09 02:17 PM   #28 
        - I didn't think you would. It was more a question than a statement as in...  Statistical   Jul-24-09 02:31 PM   #29 
           - Big + 1 there Statistical. (nt)  eqfan592   Jul-24-09 02:59 PM   #33 
           - maybe, whatever, blah blah  iverglas   Jul-24-09 03:15 PM   #34 
     - ?  burrfoot   Jul-24-09 05:47 PM   #37 
        - who better?  iverglas   Jul-25-09 01:56 PM   #44 
        - In this case, yes!  rd_kent   Jul-25-09 04:22 PM   #53 
  - He also had a moral obligation  JonQ   Jul-25-09 03:50 PM   #48 
     - Oh, a day without the Guns forum  iverglas   Jul-25-09 03:54 PM   #50 
        - I feel the same way  JonQ   Jul-26-09 12:38 PM   #77 
  - Under Kentucky law  oneshooter   Jul-23-09 10:02 PM   #12 
  - i've studied the law in several states  paulsby   Jul-24-09 05:03 AM   #23 
  - ah, Kentucky law  iverglas   Jul-24-09 02:00 PM   #26 
     - yeah, but she's just a girl, and probably doesn't own a gun, so who cares what she thinks?  Scout   Jul-24-09 02:39 PM   #30 
     - Why is this bad law?  Indy Lurker   Jul-24-09 04:51 PM   #35 
     - feel free to look it up  iverglas   Jul-25-09 01:54 PM   #42 
        - Just because you don't like it, dosen't make it a bad law.  Indy Lurker   Jul-25-09 08:59 PM   #59 
           - FOLLOW the FUCKING THREAD  iverglas   Jul-25-09 10:03 PM   #61 
              - Jim Crow laws were unconstitutional.  Indy Lurker   Jul-26-09 08:46 AM   #72 
              - What is wrong with you? You really seem depressed since you return.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-26-09 01:21 PM   #79 
     - They should take it up with the state legislature.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-24-09 05:10 PM   #36 
        - Funny, it hasn't been on the legislative agenda to be amended..  X_Digger   Jul-24-09 06:47 PM   #38 
           - funny, neither are bans on same-sex marriage  iverglas   Jul-25-09 01:55 PM   #43 
              - No.. tempests in teapots don't need to be explained..  X_Digger   Jul-25-09 01:58 PM   #45 
                 - hard cases, bad law ...  iverglas   Jul-25-09 02:19 PM   #46 
                    - for ref  iverglas   Jul-25-09 03:34 PM   #47 
  - No such requirement exists.  ProgressiveProfessor   Jul-23-09 11:21 PM   #14 
  - First I've ever heard that nonsense.  proteus_lives   Jul-24-09 12:10 AM   #17 
  - We don't charge people for fantasy crimes  AtheistCrusader   Jul-24-09 03:11 AM   #21 
  - I do not htink thats right. Beside, fair warning is when you force your way in  rd_kent   Jul-25-09 04:20 PM   #52 
     - y'know  iverglas   Jul-25-09 04:58 PM   #54 
        - LOL (n/t)  spin   Jul-25-09 06:49 PM   #58 
        - Hahaha. Thats funny!  rd_kent   Jul-26-09 11:22 AM   #75 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-23-09 09:23 PM   #6 
  - If my last name was McQuerry  slackmaster   Jul-23-09 10:02 PM   #13 
  - I thought a homeowner shot a sandwich.  rrneck   Jul-24-09 12:02 AM   #16 
  - That would have to be a bad sandwich.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-24-09 12:30 AM   #19 
     - Vat vas that, sandvich?!  AtheistCrusader   Jul-24-09 03:10 AM   #20 
     - The sandwich was good, the homeowner was innocent  slackmaster   Jul-24-09 02:58 PM   #32 
  - Good for the home-owner.  proteus_lives   Jul-24-09 12:11 AM   #18 
  - Yet more culling  trumanh59639   Jul-24-09 03:45 AM   #22 
  - I hope you don't mind  iverglas   Jul-25-09 03:53 PM   #49 
     - He could just take a page from your playbook  JonQ   Jul-25-09 05:40 PM   #56 
        - or from yours  iverglas   Jul-25-09 06:01 PM   #57 
           - Yeah, exactly like that  JonQ   Jul-26-09 12:37 PM   #76 
  - I love ambiguous and misplaced modifiers  slackmaster   Jul-24-09 02:56 PM   #31 
  - The man's son.  gorfle   Jul-24-09 08:24 PM   #39 
  - Now the families insane comments makes sense.  Statistical   Jul-25-09 10:38 AM   #41 
  - I got your warning, right here.  Lorax   Jul-24-09 10:55 PM   #40 
  - oh, and post 54  iverglas   Jul-25-09 04:59 PM   #55 
     - In re: post 54  Lorax   Jul-25-09 09:20 PM   #60 
        - yeah  iverglas   Jul-25-09 10:05 PM   #62 
           - What's your point?  Lorax   Jul-25-09 10:51 PM   #63 
              - I don't think I've been at all unclear  iverglas   Jul-25-09 10:55 PM   #64 
              - Yes, thank you.  Lorax   Jul-25-09 11:49 PM   #69 
              - It seems it is physically impossible for her to do that. Must be the lawyer in her.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 10:59 PM   #65 
              - A lawyer whose final argument is "whatever"? LOL. nt  imdjh   Jul-25-09 11:56 PM   #71 
                 - nope  iverglas   Jul-26-09 01:44 PM   #80 
                    - Arguments vs. opinions  Lorax   Jul-27-09 10:20 AM   #92 
                       - are you stalking me??  iverglas   Jul-27-09 04:14 PM   #94 
              - Because she/he is a coward  rd_kent   Jul-26-09 02:51 PM   #82 
                 - I find so many things amusing  iverglas   Jul-26-09 03:00 PM   #83 
                    - But yet, you fail to have a point, ever!  rd_kent   Jul-26-09 03:05 PM   #84 
                       - you've been here for over 4 years  iverglas   Jul-26-09 03:18 PM   #85 
                          - "I really don't give a flying fig"  rd_kent   Jul-26-09 03:21 PM   #86 
                             - no  iverglas   Jul-26-09 04:37 PM   #88 
                                - I have been standing and saying it  rd_kent   Jul-26-09 04:39 PM   #89 
  - lol  jimmyflint   Jul-25-09 11:15 PM   #67 
  - So how come Tonya Fowler hasn't been charged with murder?  imdjh   Jul-25-09 11:28 PM   #68 
     - I don't think so.  Lorax   Jul-25-09 11:53 PM   #70 
     - I don't know about Kentucky law  oneshooter   Jul-26-09 09:41 AM   #73 
     - one point for me  iverglas   Jul-26-09 01:47 PM   #81 
     - felony murder charges vary wildly from state to state.  Statistical   Jul-26-09 10:24 AM   #74 
        - Google image "tonya"  imdjh   Jul-26-09 03:33 PM   #87 

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