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Reply #81: Some problems though. [View All]

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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Some problems though.
First, some states do fully ban automatic weapons, period. My state is one. There are three exceptions. Law enforcement, active duty military, and manufacturers engaged in repair and sale to in and out of state eligible customers (LEO/Military customers). We still get the occasional weapons stash turning up, sometimes imported from other states, sometimes smuggled into the country. Sometimes they are made here. But it's an even smaller problem than the rest of the states where the provisions of the 1934 NFA is in effect.

As for other civilized nations, there are more directly relative factors than the presence of firearms. Look at Switzerland. They are awash in guns, compared to us. Yet our firearm homicde rate is higher. Why? I can think of a few reasons I suspect, some cultural, some not. A direct comparison between Americans and X other country can never work, no matter what the subject, really. Even between the US and our neighbors, Canada, there are so many social differences, where do you even start?

The weapon's specific capabilities are rarely meaningful. The .50 is demonized as an anti-aircraft gun, when in reality, most deer rifles are about as dangerous, and capable of hitting a moving aircraft, and if you touch off a .50, anyone within a mile or more knows exactly where you are, so you're not going to be doing it for long. A mass-murderer with a rifle or a pistol, reloading every 10 shots instead of every 30, is not a meaningful restriction. Many of the 'reasonable gun control' proposals made, have no meaningful effect. The best kind of gun control that I think we can work on, is anything that gets guns out of the hands of criminals. Sting operations for straw purchasing rings. Maybe some registration, if we can work out something for the people who think bans will automatically follow any registration. Sequential sentences for gun violence, not concurrent sentences. There's a lot we can do that will leave bad people with no access or very very difficult access to guns without pissing off hunters, sport shooters, collectors, self-defense gun owners, etc.

Reasonable regulation does not require head to head confrontation. Confrontation strengthens groups like the NRA, who use fearmongering to garner support.
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  -The Expired Assault Weapon ban didnt stop Columbine..or the hollywood shootout rangersmith82  Jan-25-09 02:59 PM   #0 
  - The Social Security Act didn't prevent all old people from living in poverty  MajorChode   Jan-25-09 03:04 PM   #1 
  - Banning drinking and driving didn't stop DUI accidents!  hlthe2b   Jan-25-09 03:07 PM   #2 
  - You are using a stunningly stupid arguing technique, if you are against the AWB.  AchtungToddler   Jan-25-09 03:09 PM   #3 
  - ....  hlthe2b   Jan-25-09 03:18 PM   #5 
     - We already have  HALO141   Jan-26-09 08:44 PM   #86 
  - who gives a shit? pointless point. n/t  frogcycle   Jan-25-09 03:16 PM   #4 
  - obviously you ,because you fu**ing replied  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 08:48 PM   #19 
  - I get your point. You want to ban All guns.  onehandle   Jan-25-09 03:23 PM   #6 
  - My God! Murder laws haven't stopped murder! Let's legalize it!  villager   Jan-25-09 03:24 PM   #7 
  - Well this law expired...  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 03:33 PM   #9 
     - well, sure, "stupid" from the standpoint of an NRA corporate lobbyist  villager   Jan-25-09 03:36 PM   #10 
        - Stats?  X_Digger   Jan-25-09 03:44 PM   #12 
        - Stats to show it wasn't?  villager   Jan-25-09 04:20 PM   #13 
        - Check the FBI stats.. no change  X_Digger   Jan-25-09 09:56 PM   #21 
        - The 94 AWB was part of a much larger bill that did a lot of things  MajorChode   Jan-25-09 05:40 PM   #15 
           - Source for JD study?  X_Digger   Jan-25-09 10:28 PM   #23 
           - While you're cherrypicking, don't forget these nuggets  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 02:11 PM   #53 
              - And yet..  X_Digger   Jan-26-09 03:09 PM   #55 
                 - And yet still you obfuscate....  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 03:47 PM   #56 
                    - So, aside from some anecdotal incidents  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 04:49 PM   #61 
                    - So we have to wait until hundreds of people are killed BEFORE we can regulate something?  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 06:00 PM   #70 
                       - The registration aspect is probably a good thing.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 06:16 PM   #73 
                          - I've never been a big advocate of outright bans  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 06:55 PM   #80 
                             - Some problems though.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 07:17 PM   #81 
                                - A good place to start is to try and figure out why  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 04:34 AM   #91 
                                   - Culture is too varied.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 01:45 PM   #99 
                    - Can't decide.. reductio ad absurdum or false dichotomy  X_Digger   Jan-26-09 04:56 PM   #62 
                    - Just add it to the collection of your other logical fallacies  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 05:40 PM   #66 
                       - Not really..  X_Digger   Jan-26-09 06:10 PM   #71 
                          - Really  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 07:19 PM   #82 
                             - Now THAT's spin..  X_Digger   Jan-26-09 08:36 PM   #84 
                                - So far you've posted nothing BUT spin  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 03:10 AM   #89 
                                   - Prevent != Decrease???  X_Digger   Jan-27-09 01:32 PM   #97 
                                      - How can you possibly know something that was not constant?  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 06:28 PM   #106 
                                         - effectiveness: impossible to answer.. ?  X_Digger   Jan-27-09 06:45 PM   #107 
                                            - So what's your solution?  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 07:09 PM   #110 
                                            - My last post this sub-thread..  X_Digger   Jan-27-09 08:25 PM   #113 
                                            - All of your proposed solutions are all well and good  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 08:45 PM   #114 
                                            - Sources?  AtheistCrusader   Jan-29-09 01:33 PM   #118 
                    - Heller does apply to the entire UNITED States just (not yet) to the States  Statistical   Jan-26-09 06:29 PM   #75 
                       - So it only applies to DC, Perry Mason, just like I said, duh  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 07:40 PM   #83 
                          - Are you dense or do you play one on TV  Statistical   Jan-26-09 08:37 PM   #85 
                             - And they forgot two *other* nongun legal precendents  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-26-09 11:17 PM   #88 
                             - Time to send up the flag  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 03:58 AM   #90 
           - Thanks, MajorChode! Too many in this forum take NRA talking points as holy writ!  villager   Jan-25-09 10:55 PM   #26 
        - Less than 3% of U.S. murders involve any type of rifle...  benEzra   Jan-25-09 09:57 PM   #22 
  - I think the AWB  rrneck   Jan-25-09 03:31 PM   #8 
  - villager, care to explain why the AWB needs to be renewed??  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 04:31 PM   #14 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-25-09 03:39 PM   #11 
  - The AWB included a ban on LCMs  MajorChode   Jan-25-09 05:42 PM   #16 
     - So Constitutional rights are based on need?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 08:43 PM   #17 
     - Only LCM made after 1994  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 08:45 PM   #18 
     - Yes, there will be a civil war if the government bans LCMs  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 01:51 PM   #52 
     - 10 rounds is a ridiculously low limit that was exceeded in the 1860's.  benEzra   Jan-25-09 09:48 PM   #20 
     - Ban Duct Tape!  X_Digger   Jan-25-09 10:33 PM   #24 
     - I do!  jeepnstein   Jan-26-09 07:52 AM   #48 
     - First demonstrate there is or has ever been such a thing as a 30 round clip.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 04:18 PM   #58 
        - Do I have to demonstrate the sky is blue, grass is green, and water is wet while I'm at it?  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 04:27 PM   #59 
           - Your absurdity is complaining about things that don't exist.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 04:36 PM   #60 
              - Now that you've taken absurdity to an art form...  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 05:07 PM   #63 
                 - Here's an idea.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 05:23 PM   #64 
                    - Here you go, colonel:  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 05:50 PM   #68 
                    - Very good, now look up Magazine.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 06:11 PM   #72 
                    - I'll stick with the dictionary definition, colonel  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 06:34 PM   #76 
                       - A dictionary definition you didn't even read isn't a legal definition.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 06:37 PM   #78 
                          - OK, so now just to have a discussion we must use only LEGAL definitions  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 04:45 AM   #92 
                             - Well, someone's laughing.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 05:03 AM   #93 
                                - I'll take that as a no.  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 06:59 AM   #94 
                                   - Sure if you mean 'no, Clip is not used in legislation and is not accurate'.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 10:13 AM   #95 
                                      - Really...  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 12:45 PM   #96 
                                         - Pretty bad appeal to authority.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 01:38 PM   #98 
                                            - Do you even know what "appeal to authority" means?  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 02:15 PM   #100 
                                               - Are you serious, I told you EXACTLY where to find the legal definition.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 03:43 PM   #101 
                                               - So much absurdity and ignorance, where do I start to correct you?  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 05:35 PM   #105 
                                               - Now who is putting words in whose mouth?  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 06:52 PM   #108 
                                               - Good point  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 08:24 PM   #112 
                                               - Meh.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-29-09 01:22 PM   #117 
                                               - Here, hey, why not, I'll use your own appeal to 'authority'  AtheistCrusader   Jan-27-09 03:50 PM   #102 
                                               - Notice the backhanded acknowledgement of Heller in all this "large capacity magazine" folderol?  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-27-09 04:34 PM   #103 
                                               - Notice the ratfuckery  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 05:29 PM   #104 
                                               - "Ratfuckery" - Interesting you should use this word.  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-27-09 06:54 PM   #109 
                                               - It does apply so well to you, no?  MajorChode   Jan-27-09 07:29 PM   #111 
                                               - Why? *You* want to do what already cost Democrats (and the country) dearly  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-27-09 09:04 PM   #115 
                                               - Ok, what happened to the Great Purple Hope of Gun Control?  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-28-09 08:55 PM   #116 
                    - How sad you are trying to ban things you don't even understand.  Statistical   Jan-26-09 06:40 PM   #79 
                    - You're *wrecking* the attempt to gin up a moral panic, you awful person you  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-26-09 05:51 PM   #69 
                       - It's not a hobbyhorse, it's an elephant  MajorChode   Jan-26-09 06:26 PM   #74 
                          - That's a pretty big strawman you're building there. I can see it from three counties over.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 06:35 PM   #77 
                          - If you want to save lives, keep the damn GOP out of power  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-26-09 10:50 PM   #87 
  - More people are killed by drunk drivers  callchet   Jan-25-09 10:51 PM   #25 
  - By your logic, then, drivers shouldn't be licensed in any way...  villager   Jan-25-09 10:56 PM   #27 
     - We have a speed limit.  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:26 PM   #28 
        - What would you say is the equivalent of a "speed limit" for guns  villager   Jan-25-09 11:35 PM   #29 
           - Was not trying to relate it to guns.  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:39 PM   #30 
           - Well, obviously. Your analogy doesn't hold up.  villager   Jan-25-09 11:41 PM   #31 
           - I did not analogize anything.  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:44 PM   #33 
           - Evidently not!  villager   Jan-25-09 11:50 PM   #36 
           - Was looking up gun deaths on CDC  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:46 PM   #34 
           - There is no way to legislate a reduction in gun deaths in the foreseeable future.  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:48 PM   #35 
              - Yes. I am sure the NRA has drummed that into your head.  villager   Jan-25-09 11:50 PM   #37 
                 - That is not NRA  callchet   Jan-26-09 12:01 AM   #38 
                 - Not letting virtually any type of military-style weapon proliferate on our city streets, maybe?  villager   Jan-26-09 12:16 AM   #39 
                    - That is not going to happen.  callchet   Jan-26-09 12:20 AM   #40 
                    - well, thanks to folks like you and NRA, perhaps not...  villager   Jan-26-09 12:25 AM   #41 
                       - Like I said, that is a fact.  callchet   Jan-26-09 12:33 AM   #43 
                          - Sigh. You forfeit sleep for "arguments" like this?  villager   Jan-26-09 12:35 AM   #44 
                             - Not arguing,  callchet   Jan-26-09 12:37 AM   #45 
                                - No, you're not -- in any meaningful, constructive way. This is like a Monty Python  villager   Jan-26-09 12:46 AM   #47 
                    - Besides that there are  callchet   Jan-26-09 12:26 AM   #42 
                       - Jesus Christ! You really don't read newspapers, do you?  villager   Jan-26-09 12:44 AM   #46 
                          - Less than 3% of U.S. murders involve any type of rifle, regardless of how the stock is shaped.  benEzra   Jan-26-09 08:11 AM   #49 
                          - Bet you never miss T.V. crime drama, do you?...  SteveM   Jan-26-09 02:42 PM   #54 
                 - I don't know where you think you are  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 05:47 PM   #67 
           - As many cell phones that we have on the highway  callchet   Jan-25-09 11:42 PM   #32 
           - Quite obviously, the National Firearms Act of 1934, which tightly controls automatic weapons.  benEzra   Jan-26-09 09:05 AM   #50 
           - There are several.  AtheistCrusader   Jan-26-09 05:38 PM   #65 
  - Both events involved firearms that were not legally acquired, manufactured, imported, or possessed  slackmaster   Jan-26-09 10:30 AM   #51 
     - I guess villager quit...  rangersmith82   Jan-26-09 04:13 PM   #57 

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