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Reply #34: Your rights under the second, like ANY rights are not unlimited [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 12:45 AM
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34. Your rights under the second, like ANY rights are not unlimited
Just as speech can be limited (obscenity, fighting words, 'fire in a crowded theater'), your right to own weapons for the purposes of self defense are not without reasonable restrictions in the interest of public safety.

Without special dispensation you can't own fully automatic weapons, flamethrowers, grenade launchers, sawed-off shotguns, etc. even though they COULD be useful in self-defense.

High powered (high FPS, high energy) center-fire rounds are only marginally useful for self defense and their ability to penetrate common structures (walls) in way handgun rounds and shotgun pellets or slugs can't makes them dangerous to innocents. You could shoot an an intruder using a 30-06 round and kill someone in the house across the street? OF course the very power of these center-fire rounds .308, 30-06 etc. makes them popular hunting rounds (another reason to own firearms). So eliminating weapons that fire center-fire ammo isn't practical or desirable.

THAT SAID: There is little compelling reason to allow citizens to own high-power, center-fire rifles with LARGE CAPACITY and QUICKLY Changed magazines. You do not need a 10 round magazine in a hunting rifle (if you have missed two or three times your target has fled). Most military style semi-auto assault weapons are inferior in accuracy to quality bolt-action hunting rifles anyway. These large capacity magazines in semi-auto center fire weapons are ONLY useful for killing people in quantity.

Things like flash suppressors, folding stocks, bayonet lugs etc are irrelevant really. What matters is that you can hold 30 rounds and walk into a McDonalds and shoot 30 people in as many seconds without reloading. Then in less than 5 seconds snap in a new mag and start again. As a society why should we accept that possibility?
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  -So what is so common sense about an Assault Weapons ban? bossy22  Jan-24-09 10:25 PM   #0 
  - Public safety.  geckosfeet   Jan-24-09 10:29 PM   #1 
  - How does banning the least used weapon type in crimes help public safety.  davepc   Jan-24-09 10:32 PM   #3 
  - So they don't become the most used types  Oregone   Jan-24-09 10:49 PM   #21 
     - They never would be.  TheWraith   Jan-25-09 01:14 AM   #35 
     - I bet most would actually pick the AR-15  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:00 AM   #43 
     - Many millions out there, but after all these years they still aren't "most used." (nt)  SteveM   Jan-26-09 05:33 PM   #106 
  - i would prefer a well thought out arguement  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:32 PM   #4 
  - I don't think so. My right to life liberty and happiness is just as important  geckosfeet   Jan-24-09 10:35 PM   #6 
     - a couple of things  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:38 PM   #9 
        - It's not an angle. It's a perception. A assault rifle was designed as a military  geckosfeet   Jan-24-09 10:48 PM   #20 
           - Partially true  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:51 PM   #23 
           - deleted (replied to incorrect post)  spin   Jan-25-09 12:35 AM   #32 
           - I don't condone legislating strictly based on fear  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:02 AM   #44 
           - Of course not. I don't think anyone does. But you can't deny it happens.  geckosfeet   Jan-25-09 06:55 PM   #82 
           - Most firearms in use today, including bolt- and lever-action rifles, were designed as military  slackmaster   Jan-25-09 10:13 AM   #53 
              - They have been adapted for general use. No full auto.  geckosfeet   Jan-25-09 06:58 PM   #83 
                 - The "assault weapons" ban had nothing to do with full auto  slackmaster   Jan-26-09 10:02 AM   #97 
                    - Yes. I am sure that you are right. I am going out to get some women sex slaves now.  geckosfeet   Jan-26-09 09:38 PM   #115 
                       - the word "assault" is a descriptive, but meaningless term  tburnsten   Jan-26-09 09:48 PM   #117 
                       - Good luck with that  slackmaster   Jan-27-09 04:45 PM   #120 
  - There were three double-homicide shootings yesterday  krispos42   Jan-25-09 10:49 AM   #61 
  -, the public needs assault weapons... Why?  NRaleighLiberal   Jan-24-09 10:32 PM   #2 
  - i asked the question  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:33 PM   #5 
  - I am just being a bit sarcastic, since I am strongly anti-gun.  NRaleighLiberal   Jan-24-09 10:46 PM   #17 
  - What does need have to do with it?  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:08 AM   #45 
  - in order to control the masses.  Tuesday Afternoon   Jan-24-09 10:36 PM   #7 
  - how about the slaughtering of people with these guns in s.f?  xchrom   Jan-24-09 10:37 PM   #8 
  - how about the slaughtering  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:40 PM   #10 
  - your version of a poor argument is not mine --  xchrom   Jan-24-09 10:44 PM   #15 
     - You don't want to live around  Abq_Sarah   Jan-25-09 06:24 AM   #41 
     - Oh, the irony  The Rubicon   Jan-25-09 09:32 AM   #49 
        - that ban wasn't in place when that slaughter happend.  xchrom   Jan-25-09 09:58 AM   #50 
           - the S.F.  bossy22   Jan-25-09 10:37 AM   #59 
           - Ummmm.....  The Rubicon   Jan-25-09 11:40 AM   #62 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-26-09 12:01 AM   #91 
              - wrong event. nt  xchrom   Jan-26-09 12:26 AM   #92 
                 - Nah...really?  The Rubicon   Jan-26-09 09:02 AM   #93 
  - Flame throwers are not guns, they are agricultural tools  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:10 AM   #46 
  - Screw the AWB. I want those restrictions on howitzers and tanks lifted. n/t  Mojambo   Jan-24-09 10:40 PM   #11 
  - so start another post about that  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:41 PM   #13 
  - ohh and btw  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:44 PM   #14 
     - Suweeeet. Hunting season is going to be awesome!1! n/t  Mojambo   Jan-24-09 10:45 PM   #16 
        - you would have to hunt on private property  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:47 PM   #18 
           - Why must the damned gubmint make it so hard for me to up my animal slaughter ratio!  Mojambo   Jan-24-09 10:50 PM   #22 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-26-09 05:41 PM   #107 
  - im starting to think this might be a lost cause  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:41 PM   #12 
  - Some issues just cross politics - guns and smoking in particular. Tough territory to wade into!  NRaleighLiberal   Jan-24-09 10:48 PM   #19 
     - true  bossy22   Jan-24-09 10:52 PM   #24 
        - Not that so much is that it incites deep emotions - and the last 8 years have  NRaleighLiberal   Jan-24-09 10:58 PM   #25 
           - you have a point  bossy22   Jan-24-09 11:00 PM   #26 
  - Defining the argument  raimius   Jan-24-09 11:22 PM   #27 
  - Please define assult weapon?  Duckhunter935   Jan-24-09 11:26 PM   #28 
  - Not used for hunting....nt  Captain Hilts   Jan-24-09 11:46 PM   #29 
  - whats suitable for hunting  bossy22   Jan-24-09 11:49 PM   #30 
  - They are fantastic hunting rifles  Taitertots   Jan-25-09 12:09 AM   #31 
  - And your statement would have what to do with the OP?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 04:50 AM   #36 
  - Oh how wrong you are, please read this ad  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:29 AM   #47 
  - I believe I can explain why so many people are for a assault weapons ban...  spin   Jan-25-09 12:36 AM   #33 
  - Your rights under the second, like ANY rights are not unlimited  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 12:45 AM   #34 
  - Someone could drive a truck into a crowded pedestrian mall and kill lots of people in seconds.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 05:25 AM   #38 
  - Spurious arguments. People choose to swim. People choose to drive.  geckosfeet   Jan-25-09 07:49 AM   #42 
  - Really?  The Rubicon   Jan-25-09 10:08 AM   #52 
  - I choose to drive. I choose to swim. I know the dangers. So do you.  geckosfeet   Jan-25-09 10:34 AM   #57 
     - Couldn't the same be said of people who choose to live in the United States?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-26-09 07:52 PM   #113 
  - we are not talking about assault rifles here  bossy22   Jan-25-09 10:29 AM   #55 
  - No. You are talking about semi-automatic long guns.  geckosfeet   Jan-25-09 10:35 AM   #58 
     - Just to be sure  pipoman   Jan-25-09 08:51 PM   #88 
     - Do you realize the AWB has nothing to do with automatic weapons?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-26-09 07:54 PM   #114 
  - They are legitimate arguments when the basis for the ban is potential.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 08:35 PM   #86 
  - I'm sure BenEzra has more details, but many folks use large-capacity mags...  SteveM   Jan-26-09 05:57 PM   #108 
  - Did you actually engage in any cognition before posting...  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 02:26 PM   #67 
     - are incorrect  bossy22   Jan-25-09 03:24 PM   #75 
     - What two episodes of mass murder...  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 04:10 PM   #76 
        - your claim is incorrect  bossy22   Jan-25-09 04:46 PM   #79 
           - Your own quote!...  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 05:03 PM   #81 
              - So you think gun grabber is offensive but gun nut is not, pot meet kettle.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 08:25 PM   #85 
              - I'm appalled by the blatant your use of Freeper-esque terms like 'Gun nut' in the DU forums.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 08:39 PM   #87 
              - Amazing you keyed in on those words and ignored the rest of the post...  whoneedstickets   Jan-26-09 12:29 PM   #100 
                 - Not for nothing, but your use of the term was glaringly obvious after the 'gun grabber' rant. nt  jmg257   Jan-26-09 06:44 PM   #110 
                 - Just pointing out the hypocrisy.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-26-09 07:35 PM   #111 
              - This post is utterly insane  tburnsten   Jan-26-09 02:45 PM   #101 
              - Speaking as a cop...  57_TomCat   Jan-26-09 03:19 PM   #103 
              - Who are you to decide what weapon I use to defend my home?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-26-09 07:37 PM   #112 
     - Lets put it on a more level field here.  57_TomCat   Jan-26-09 03:34 PM   #104 
  - The AR-15 is about the most accurate service rifle ever adopted  tburnsten   Jan-25-09 08:41 AM   #48 
  - Disagree on AR-15 as a deer rifle..  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 10:41 AM   #60 
  - So an AR-15 in a caliber other than the original can't be used either?  tburnsten   Jan-26-09 09:36 AM   #95 
  - While .223 isn't a good deer hunting round....  Statistical   Jan-26-09 10:19 AM   #98 
  - Accurate semi-auto .308s, .260 Rems, .243s can be had on the AR 15 platform ...  SteveM   Jan-26-09 06:08 PM   #109 
  - You can get an AR variant in 6.8mm Remington, .243, .308, .50 Beowulf, or .300 RSAUM...  benEzra   Jan-28-09 11:16 AM   #122 
  - Also, AR-15 not the most accurate....  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 02:34 PM   #70 
     - true  bossy22   Jan-25-09 04:50 PM   #80 
     - Those aren't the basic service rifle though  tburnsten   Jan-26-09 09:43 AM   #96 
     - Sorry, not true.  57_TomCat   Jan-26-09 09:47 PM   #116 
        - Thanks for the vote of confidence  tburnsten   Jan-26-09 09:52 PM   #118 
  - Prove it  The Rubicon   Jan-25-09 10:02 AM   #51 
  - Legislation making possession or sale of magazines of larger than 10 rounds  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 02:08 PM   #66 
     - So....  The Rubicon   Jan-25-09 02:50 PM   #71 
     - hmmm......  bossy22   Jan-25-09 03:13 PM   #74 
     - Its great to hear you have an inside scoop on the SC...  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 04:15 PM   #77 
        - well we know  bossy22   Jan-25-09 04:23 PM   #78 
     - Which the VT shooter got around by having two handguns on him.  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-25-09 11:28 PM   #90 
     - That would not be possible to enforce  slackmaster   Jan-26-09 10:32 AM   #99 
        - not quite....  one-eyed fat man   Jan-27-09 10:03 AM   #119 
  - Thank you for the single most intelligent "anti" post here, possibly ever  Malidictus Maximus   Jan-25-09 10:21 AM   #54 
  - Just cherry picking here but...  57_TomCat   Jan-26-09 03:06 PM   #102 
  - Lots to work with here.  57_TomCat   Jan-26-09 04:25 PM   #105 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-25-09 04:53 AM   #37 
  - Well, you know what they say  depakid   Jan-25-09 05:32 AM   #39 
  - He was asking people who support the legislation, sometimes you have to put it on their level.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 05:49 AM   #40 
  - and how is my question  bossy22   Jan-25-09 10:31 AM   #56 
  - Nice Freeper Term... Grabber  whoneedstickets   Jan-25-09 02:28 PM   #68 
     - the question is what is consdered  bossy22   Jan-25-09 03:07 PM   #72 
     - Gun grabber is our counter to gun nut. Once you've been here a while you'll learn.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jan-25-09 08:21 PM   #84 
  - It is a very useful piece of legislation  Howzit   Jan-25-09 01:21 PM   #63 
  - More videos  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 01:57 PM   #64 
     - the AWB didnt stop the Hollywood shootout  rangersmith82   Jan-25-09 02:04 PM   #65 
  - Read the June 2004 Report  russ1943   Jan-25-09 02:30 PM   #69 
     - the assault pistol  bossy22   Jan-25-09 03:12 PM   #73 
     - So you want to ban rifles which are both in 1. common legal use and 2. rarely used in crimes. Why?  friendly_iconoclast   Jan-25-09 11:14 PM   #89 
     - "assault pistols"  raimius   Jan-26-09 09:36 AM   #94 
     - Some pictures of "assault pistols" (for informational purposes)  spin   Jan-28-09 11:31 AM   #123 
     - The decline in sale of so-called "assault pistols" had little to do with the Feinstein non-ban,  benEzra   Jan-28-09 10:59 AM   #121 

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