Reply #46: answer(s)

[iverglas]

Wouldn't there still need to be a databank?
If a person applies for a gun license, how do you verify their mental health status if there is no database?

I hesitate to be flippant, but it probably couldn't be any less likely to succeed than the NICS system is.

I put a link to the application form in one post ... here we are:
http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_ligne/form-assistance/PDFs/921_e.pdf
References. Spouse and former spouse required to sign off. Hot line for people with concerns to call -- about applications in process, applications that might be made, people with licences.

It doesn't catch everybody. It didn't catch Kimveer Gill. But neither would any databank have, unless it included moody jerks who had dropped out school and lived in their parents' basements. ;)

Now, apparently his parents had some cause to be concerned -- lordy, if you had an adult kid who dropped out of school and walked around in black dusters and spent his time playing with guns and knives in your basement, wouldn't you be?? So the part of the system that failed there was the human part. They should have conveyed the concerns they were obviously in denial about to the police or some such.


If John Smith moves from Town A to Town B, gets a new doctor, and then applies for a gun license, how would anyone ever find out John was treated for severe mental illness in Town A?

The NICS system doesn't seem to contain info about people treated for severe mental illness -- only about people "committed to a mental institution" or "adjudicated as a mental defective", isn't that it? Someone who voluntarily admitted him/herself wouldn't get onto the books. And of course, someone who just managed not to come to the attention of the appropriate medical professionals or public safety authorities wouldn't either. How many raving loonies are wandering the streets of big cities in the US, or just living in their parents' basements in small towns, who have never been adjudicated or committed?

I assume that references on the Cdn application are checked, and that someone would not give a reference who knew him/her to have had serious mental health problems, and that a person who had known someone for the requisite length of time would know if that were the case -- but that is absolutely not foolproof of course.

I'd also think, though, that the mere process itself, the record that is created when an application is made, would be a deterrent to ineligible people from trying it on. NICS, with no records, isn't much of a deterrent, as I understand it. Lie and take your chances might have better odds of working in the US than in Canada.

Licence is up for renewal every five years, btw.

It also sounds like this would take forever.

I don't think it does. You can apply on line. (I assume you have to submit the signed photo and whatnot on paper.)

Hell, look at the service you get!

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dpr-rmr/0506/CFC-CAFC/cfc-cafc01_e.asp

Priority 2 – Continue to improve program delivery and client service

As a result of the legislative changes introduced in April 2005, the CAFC was able to implement a new licence renewal infrastructure which included simplified application forms, streamlined processes and client service improvements to promote compliance. The modified licence renewal application was directly sent to clients ninety days prior to their licence expiring. The application was pre-populated with client information previously collected thus eliminating complexity for the client. A reminder notice is sent to those clients yet to return the renewal application thirty days prior to their licence expiring. The time required for the Program to process a renewal application has been reduced due to the simplification and pre-population of the new form.

I can't for the life of me find anything like a program evaluation that gives timeframes.

Aha.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_ligne/service/default_e.asp

Service Standards

Would you like to know more about the status of your licence or registration application?

* We have recently developed an on-line query that will allow you to inquire about the status of your application directly.

* Applications that are complete and accurate can be processed faster. Please ensure you have the appropriate information on hand when you fill out your application.

* Our service standards to process a complete and accurate application are:
o 45 days, including the 28-day legislated waiting period, for a licence application;
o 30 days for a registration application.

If you have not received information concerning your application within those time frames, please call 1 800 xxx-xxxx and one of our client representatives will check the reason for the delay.

* If your application is incomplete or inaccurate, it will take longer to process. We will need to contact you and get the required information before we can process your application.

* We know that many of our clients have experienced long wait times when calling our 1-800 line. Therefore we have added staff to improve our service level. We are confident that this measure, along with the information about standard application processing times and the on-line status check feature will help to reduce the extreme call volume we have been receiving at the call centre and allow us to serve you more rapidly.

Howzat?


edited to add:

It's $60 for 5 years for a standard licence (not including restricted/prohibited weapons, e.g. handguns and semi-automatic firearms).

And proof of completion of a firearms safety course is required for a first-time licence.

So there are quite a few points of contact -- firearms safety instructor, spouse, two referees -- with people who are personally aquainted with the applicant who have an opportunity to submit concerns about the application.