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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-07-07 12:08 PM
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How Green Is Nuclear Power?
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How Green Is Nuclear Power?

By Mark Clayton,
The Christian Science Monitor,
March 7, 2007.

"As part of a 'carbon-free' solution to climate change... at least 11 new nuclear plants are in the design stage in nine states, including Virginia, Texas, Kansas and Florida, according to the Nuclear Energy Institute website.... But that carbon-free pitch has researchers asking anew: How carbon-free is nuclear power? And how cost-effective is it in the fight to slow global warming? 'Saying nuclear is carbon-free is not true,' says Uwe Fritsche, a researcher at the ko Institut in Darmstadt, Germany, who has conducted a life-cycle analysis of the plants.

'It's less carbon-intensive than fossil fuel. But if you are honest, scientifically speaking, the truth is: There is no carbon-free energy. There's no free lunch'... Nuclear power has more than just a little greenhouse gas attached to it, when mining uranium ore, refining and enriching fuel, building the plant, and operating it are included. A big 1,250 megawatt plant produces the equivalent of 250,000 tons of carbon dioxide a year during its life, Dr. Fritsche says... Nuclear power may not fare as well when its life-cycle cost of reducing CO2 emissions is compared with other energy alternatives. An ko Institut study last year found that countries would get more bang for their buck by moving to other forms of energy - such as biomass and even some natural-gas power plants - rather than nuclear power.

Wind surprisingly has about the same carbon footprint as nuclear when manufacturing and load factors are included. But wind power also doesn't produce long-lived nuclear waste - storage of which includes an energy cost that's unknown and is not factored into the ko or most other analyses - yet... For those energy experts who have done life-cycle analysis of nuclear power, the big concern is that policymakers may be misled into believing that just because nuclear CO2 emissions are low, the cost of nuclear as an option to address climate change would be a bargain.

Better, they say, to take the huge amounts of money needed for nuclear plants and use it to build lower-cost solutions that will displace more coal. 'It's easy to show that building more reactors makes climate change worse than it should have been,' says Amory Lovins, chairman of the Rocky Mountain Institute, an energy think tank in Snowmass, Colo. 'That's because a dollar put into new reactors gives two to 10 times less climate solution for the amount of coal-power displaced than if you had bought cheaper solutions with the same dollars.' Environmental groups, too, are well aware of the conundrum surrounding the claim of carbon-free energy. Most of them maintain that nuclear is not the answer to climate change. But their antinuclear arguments have centered on environmental damage from nuclear waste, potential accidents, and terror threats. 'First, nuclear was supposed to be too cheap to meter; now, they're framing it as a solution to climate change,' says Erich Pica, director of economic policy for Friends of the Earth.... 'We hope this Democratic Congress will be skeptical of that claim.'"

end of excerpts
I believe the nuclear industry is now clamping onto the "green" movement trying to give nuclear power credibility as an alternate energy when it is not, and I have yet to be convinced it is. If we really want to save this planet-NO NUKES.
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  -How Green Is Nuclear Power? RestoreGore  Mar-07-07 12:08 PM   #0 
  - proliferation is the show stopper  greenman3610   Mar-07-07 12:16 PM   #1 
  - Note: ChimpCo is not going to bomb Iranian wind farms or rooftop solar hot water heaters  jpak   Mar-07-07 12:22 PM   #2 
  - I wouldn't bet on it...  Tin Man   Mar-07-07 07:30 PM   #24 
  - They are that, and they want the water too n/t  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 07:44 PM   #32 
  - Thank you for these links  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 12:50 PM   #4 
     - Lovins irritates the hell out of me.  hunter   Mar-07-07 04:01 PM   #22 
  - Let's ask Ms Chernobyl her opinion. . .  Journeyman   Mar-07-07 12:37 PM   #3 
  - This is an interesting twist  imfreaky   Mar-07-07 12:52 PM   #5 
  - Oh well, I think he is wrong  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 12:57 PM   #6 
  - He also believes that global warming is a Good Thing  jpak   Mar-07-07 01:40 PM   #8 
  - Ah but Moore is an asshole.  NNadir   Mar-07-07 01:45 PM   #9 
  - It is nuclear weapons that are murder n/t  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 02:01 PM   #11 
  - As soon as you can answer how we can guarantee, for at least 30,000 years,  greyhound1966   Mar-07-07 07:30 PM   #25 
     - How many people are going to fall off towers and roofs in 30,000 years...  hunter   Mar-07-07 09:14 PM   #36 
     - Until you can guarantee that dangerous fossil fuel waste won't be toxic for eternity,  NNadir   Mar-07-07 10:03 PM   #38 
        - I seriously doubt you could that you can conceive of anything beyond my  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 01:31 AM   #44 
  - Lovins answers Patrick Moore  greenman3610   Mar-07-07 02:44 PM   #17 
     - That's funny.  hunter   Mar-07-07 04:10 PM   #23 
  - This unkillable "all energy sources require CO2" meme is fucking ridiculous.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 01:20 PM   #7 
  - Ah, but we don't care about "all energy sources"  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 01:58 PM   #10 
  - What other source leaves nuclear waste? n/t  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 02:04 PM   #12 
  - You missed the point  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 02:09 PM   #13 
     - How many die from contracting cancer every year living near one?  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 07:31 PM   #26 
        - CO2 is killing this planet, not nuclear fuel.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 07:33 PM   #27 
        - And nuclear power produces it as well  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 07:38 PM   #28 
           - The fact you consider that a valid argument doesn't up your credibility.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 07:42 PM   #30 
              - Dr. Helen Caldicott is not credible?  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 07:47 PM   #33 
                 - It's not about whether nuclear materials can kill people or make them sick.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 08:03 PM   #34 
                 - ONE killed by either is too many  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 10:40 PM   #41 
                    - I engage in these dialogues because silence = consent.  phantom power   Mar-08-07 12:04 PM   #54 
                 - No, Dr. Caldicott is not credible.  hunter   Mar-07-07 09:16 PM   #37 
                    - Why should anyone as biased as you be considered credible then?  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 10:39 PM   #40 
                       - She's a relic. Aren't we all?  hunter   Mar-08-07 01:58 AM   #46 
        - Err, are we still talking about nuclear waste?  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 10:59 PM   #42 
  - Add up the body count from spent fuel in 2600 AD and again in 240,000 AD  jpak   Mar-07-07 02:18 PM   #15 
     - Believe it or not, Scientific American published a study on that.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 02:41 PM   #16 
     - Dammit, I just paid 8 bucks for the wrong issue.  phantom power   Mar-07-07 03:25 PM   #19 
        - Sorry, there is nobody available to take your call  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 03:39 PM   #20 
        - Pardon me, but I am highly amused by your misfortune...  jpak   Mar-07-07 03:46 PM   #21 
     - Tell you what...  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 02:56 PM   #18 
  - Thank you for speaking my mind :^) . nt  eppur_se_muova   Mar-07-07 02:10 PM   #14 
  - Agreed.  Nihil   Mar-08-07 08:15 AM   #53 
  - The bottom line to the "nuclear energy debate" is simple. It is the only viable source  greyhound1966   Mar-07-07 07:40 PM   #29 
  - And that's why Bush and Cheney push it so much  RestoreGore   Mar-07-07 07:42 PM   #31 
  - India and China and other important nations don't care what we think.  hunter   Mar-08-07 12:38 PM   #55 
  - Very True......  IChing   Mar-07-07 10:12 PM   #39 
  - Yeah, 'cos all 6,500,000,000 people can afford to live off-grid  Dead_Parrot   Mar-07-07 11:05 PM   #43 
     - The nations where the majority of that 6.5 billion live do not have, nor can they afford to build  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 01:42 AM   #45 
        - What the fuck has profit got to do with it?  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 02:20 AM   #47 
           - I don't give a flying fuck about raving morons and their offensive nonsense.  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 02:33 AM   #48 
              - And that's your response, is it?  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 02:48 AM   #49 
                 - As I said, until you want to have an actual discussion, you have nothing to add but noise. n/t  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 03:09 AM   #50 
                    - Yeah, Whatever  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 03:25 AM   #51 
                       - Answer this, which is more possible for the nation of Haiti, the poorest  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 04:08 AM   #52 
                          - Hmmm, I'm trying to decide which is the bigger Haitian fantasy...  hunter   Mar-08-07 01:39 PM   #56 
                          - $18 doesn't even buy 5W  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 02:53 PM   #57 
                             - Apparently, you are just not up to date on the development of  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 03:01 PM   #58 
                                - We are up to date on all the latest uncommercialized prototypes.  phantom power   Mar-08-07 03:16 PM   #59 
                                - Those thin-film PV plants are in operation or being constructed today  jpak   Mar-08-07 03:39 PM   #61 
                                - Things are moving rapidly and commercialization is well under way.  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 03:47 PM   #62 
                                - I'm not going by press releases...  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 03:25 PM   #60 
                                   - Unisolar Ovonic is real, Nanosolar is real, Sharp is real, Honda is real, ErSol is real, etc....  jpak   Mar-08-07 03:57 PM   #63 
                                   - And US$3.64/W is real, too.  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 04:08 PM   #65 
                                      - No - dissed the Dreaded Thin-film PV Press Releases  jpak   Mar-08-07 04:11 PM   #66 
                                         - Did you? where? nt  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 04:19 PM   #67 
                                   - Your last sentence is absolutely correct and the reasons for that are  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 04:08 PM   #64 
                                      - Not being an energy consortium...  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 04:36 PM   #68 
                                      - OK, you're obviously not interested in learning nearly as much as you're  greyhound1966   Mar-08-07 05:08 PM   #69 
                                         - Really?  Dead_Parrot   Mar-08-07 06:36 PM   #70 
                                         - How much did your solar installation cost?  hunter   Mar-08-07 06:44 PM   #71 
                                            - What a bizarre reply. You haven't addressed one of the issues brought up,  greyhound1966   Mar-09-07 02:55 AM   #72 
                                               - Your issues have been addressed in this thread.  hunter   Mar-09-07 01:11 PM   #74 
                                      - There is a nugget of truth in what you say ...  Nihil   Mar-09-07 05:39 AM   #73 
                                         - economic forces  BrightKnight   Mar-09-07 10:06 PM   #75 
                                            - I totally agree with you about "economic forces" ...  Nihil   Mar-12-07 07:28 AM   #76 
  - 1,780 lbs of coal * 36,000,000 pellets in the reactors of 1 plant...  BrightKnight   Mar-07-07 08:53 PM   #35 

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