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Reply #10: My work with large systems has taught me one thing [View All]

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. My work with large systems has taught me one thing
The probability of introducing massive change into a brittle, highly interconnected system without crashing it are extremely low.

Worse, by substituting oil with a large array of renewable energy sources, alternative technologies and processes, we will be increasing the complexity and interdependence of our civilization and its processes, just at a time when we can least afford that. The problem is much more complicated than just having "enough energy". Our civilization was build to run on oil. Trying to re-jig all our processes to run on something else will be like pouring vegetable oil into your car's gas tank - the energy is there, but the system isn't designed to use it, and breakdowns will occur.

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  -can someone please tell me why so many people use the all or nothing approach??? LSK  Dec-28-06 01:10 PM   #0 
  - Well, I'd suggest a better storage method  Warpy   Dec-28-06 01:14 PM   #1 
  - batteries, fuel cells, whatever holds electricity  LSK   Dec-28-06 01:19 PM   #5 
  - Flywheels actuall exist, too, I hear.  kestrel91316   Dec-28-06 04:05 PM   #17 
  - Not Really  loindelrio   Dec-28-06 07:36 PM   #29 
  - Your article doesn't mention SOLAR energy as  Warpy   Dec-28-06 09:50 PM   #33 
     - Ultimately, Hydrogen Has To Be Made From Renewable Electricity By Electrolysis"  loindelrio   Dec-28-06 10:52 PM   #36 
        - "Then we can start working on the natural gas crises."  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 11:05 PM   #37 
        - Yes, I Probably Misspoke. Barring Geopolitics, The Natural Gas Crises  loindelrio   Dec-28-06 11:48 PM   #38 
        - Again, they're talking about trucks and I'm talking about homes  Warpy   Dec-29-06 10:20 AM   #48 
  - I hope you're not holding your breath.  Porcupine   Dec-29-06 06:55 PM   #51 
  - Makes sense to me.  Deep13   Dec-28-06 01:15 PM   #2 
  - People have apparently forgotten about the REDUCE part of  kestrel91316   Dec-28-06 04:12 PM   #19 
  - Because black and white thinking is so much easier.  pnwmom   Dec-28-06 01:15 PM   #3 
  - sometimes it makes me want to scream  LSK   Dec-28-06 01:22 PM   #6 
  - The magic bullet  realpolitik   Dec-28-06 01:16 PM   #4 
  - Speaking as someone who is on the pessimistic side  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 02:20 PM   #7 
  - about your pessimistic side...  garybeck   Dec-28-06 02:27 PM   #9 
  - My work with large systems has taught me one thing  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 02:53 PM   #10 
  - it can be done in 10 years. there's a plan and it works.  garybeck   Dec-28-06 03:06 PM   #11 
  - We're talking at different levels here.  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 03:35 PM   #13 
  - You've been where I am? I don't think so.  garybeck   Dec-28-06 03:54 PM   #14 
     - You're right, I haven't done that kind of work with renewables.  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 04:35 PM   #23 
        - Here you go Rip, some links:  JohnWxy   Dec-28-06 06:09 PM   #26 
        - Rip? Whatever. Thanks.  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 07:23 PM   #27 
        - "Tell me why you think nuclear power is so bad?"  garybeck   Dec-28-06 11:55 PM   #39 
           - Well, you would need to say more if you wanted to convince me of your position.  GliderGuider   Dec-29-06 12:21 AM   #44 
  - That's a great site. I pasted their four point program for those interested.  JohnWxy   Dec-28-06 04:17 PM   #21 
  - Work for change. Do everything you can personally do  kestrel91316   Dec-28-06 04:15 PM   #20 
  - ..  loindelrio   Dec-28-06 08:01 PM   #30 
  - Self delete  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 10:02 PM   #34 
  - renewable energy can supply ALL our power. no one disputes this,....  oldhippie   Dec-29-06 06:39 PM   #50 
  - The diminishing returns of increased complexity  NoMoreMyths   Dec-28-06 04:01 PM   #15 
     - Have you read Joseph Tainter?  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 04:57 PM   #25 
        - No, but I've read of the book  NoMoreMyths   Dec-29-06 09:15 AM   #46 
  - Where are people saying all or nothing?  garybeck   Dec-28-06 02:25 PM   #8 
  - I see it, or at least what LOOKS like it.  Ready4Change   Dec-28-06 09:06 PM   #31 
     - How about this?  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 09:32 PM   #32 
     - ignorance is the partner of pessimism  garybeck   Dec-29-06 12:01 AM   #40 
  - you are exactly right, its a mix of energy sources  trekbiker   Dec-28-06 03:11 PM   #12 
  - Two words explain it all: PAID TROLLS  kestrel91316   Dec-28-06 04:04 PM   #16 
  - I thought about that one too  LSK   Dec-28-06 04:30 PM   #22 
  - Paid trolls would be better at this.  GliderGuider   Dec-28-06 04:49 PM   #24 
  - So A Difference Of Opinion = 'Paid Troll'?  loindelrio   Dec-28-06 07:26 PM   #28 
  - Many prefer to talk about the "big" idea and find taking a 'smaller' less momentous, practical  JohnWxy   Dec-28-06 04:10 PM   #18 
  - In principle, I would agree. On the other hand magical thinking causes a lot of  NNadir   Dec-28-06 10:50 PM   #35 
  - I know what you're getting at. Photovoltaic electricity is a small % of energy.  lumberjack_jeff   Dec-29-06 12:05 AM   #41 
  - Thank you for your enlightening discussion of primary energy.  NNadir   Dec-29-06 12:21 AM   #45 
     - Such a kidder. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Dec-29-06 09:56 AM   #47 
  - excuse me?  garybeck   Dec-29-06 12:08 AM   #42 
     - Um do you know the difference between 3 and 913?  NNadir   Dec-29-06 12:19 AM   #43 
     - Nice photo  Dead_Parrot   Dec-29-06 08:33 PM   #52 
  - I think it's because.........  oldhippie   Dec-29-06 06:19 PM   #49 

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