GliderGuider
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Thu Dec-28-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
| 10. My work with large systems has taught me one thing |
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The probability of introducing massive change into a brittle, highly interconnected system without crashing it are extremely low.
Worse, by substituting oil with a large array of renewable energy sources, alternative technologies and processes, we will be increasing the complexity and interdependence of our civilization and its processes, just at a time when we can least afford that. The problem is much more complicated than just having "enough energy". Our civilization was build to run on oil. Trying to re-jig all our processes to run on something else will be like pouring vegetable oil into your car's gas tank - the energy is there, but the system isn't designed to use it, and breakdowns will occur.
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| -can someone please tell me why so many people use the all or nothing approach??? |
LSK |
Dec-28-06 01:10 PM |
#0 |
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Well, I'd suggest a better storage method |
Warpy |
Dec-28-06 01:14 PM |
#1 |
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batteries, fuel cells, whatever holds electricity |
LSK |
Dec-28-06 01:19 PM |
#5 |
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Flywheels actuall exist, too, I hear. |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-28-06 04:05 PM |
#17 |
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Not Really |
loindelrio |
Dec-28-06 07:36 PM |
#29 |
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Your article doesn't mention SOLAR energy as |
Warpy |
Dec-28-06 09:50 PM |
#33 |
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“Ultimately, Hydrogen Has To Be Made From Renewable Electricity By Electrolysis" |
loindelrio |
Dec-28-06 10:52 PM |
#36 |
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"Then we can start working on the natural gas crises." |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 11:05 PM |
#37 |
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Yes, I Probably Misspoke. Barring Geopolitics, The Natural Gas Crises |
loindelrio |
Dec-28-06 11:48 PM |
#38 |
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Again, they're talking about trucks and I'm talking about homes |
Warpy |
Dec-29-06 10:20 AM |
#48 |
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I hope you're not holding your breath. |
Porcupine |
Dec-29-06 06:55 PM |
#51 |
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Makes sense to me. |
Deep13 |
Dec-28-06 01:15 PM |
#2 |
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People have apparently forgotten about the REDUCE part of |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-28-06 04:12 PM |
#19 |
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Because black and white thinking is so much easier. |
pnwmom |
Dec-28-06 01:15 PM |
#3 |
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sometimes it makes me want to scream |
LSK |
Dec-28-06 01:22 PM |
#6 |
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The magic bullet |
realpolitik |
Dec-28-06 01:16 PM |
#4 |
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Speaking as someone who is on the pessimistic side |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 02:20 PM |
#7 |
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about your pessimistic side... |
garybeck |
Dec-28-06 02:27 PM |
#9 |
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My work with large systems has taught me one thing |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 02:53 PM |
#10 |
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it can be done in 10 years. there's a plan and it works. |
garybeck |
Dec-28-06 03:06 PM |
#11 |
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We're talking at different levels here. |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 03:35 PM |
#13 |
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You've been where I am? I don't think so. |
garybeck |
Dec-28-06 03:54 PM |
#14 |
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You're right, I haven't done that kind of work with renewables. |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 04:35 PM |
#23 |
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Here you go Rip, some links: |
JohnWxy |
Dec-28-06 06:09 PM |
#26 |
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Rip? Whatever. Thanks. |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 07:23 PM |
#27 |
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"Tell me why you think nuclear power is so bad?" |
garybeck |
Dec-28-06 11:55 PM |
#39 |
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Well, you would need to say more if you wanted to convince me of your position. |
GliderGuider |
Dec-29-06 12:21 AM |
#44 |
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That's a great site. I pasted their four point program for those interested. |
JohnWxy |
Dec-28-06 04:17 PM |
#21 |
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Work for change. Do everything you can personally do |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-28-06 04:15 PM |
#20 |
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.. |
loindelrio |
Dec-28-06 08:01 PM |
#30 |
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Self delete |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 10:02 PM |
#34 |
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renewable energy can supply ALL our power. no one disputes this,.... |
oldhippie |
Dec-29-06 06:39 PM |
#50 |
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The diminishing returns of increased complexity |
NoMoreMyths |
Dec-28-06 04:01 PM |
#15 |
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Have you read Joseph Tainter? |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 04:57 PM |
#25 |
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No, but I've read of the book |
NoMoreMyths |
Dec-29-06 09:15 AM |
#46 |
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Where are people saying all or nothing? |
garybeck |
Dec-28-06 02:25 PM |
#8 |
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I see it, or at least what LOOKS like it. |
Ready4Change |
Dec-28-06 09:06 PM |
#31 |
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How about this? |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 09:32 PM |
#32 |
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ignorance is the partner of pessimism |
garybeck |
Dec-29-06 12:01 AM |
#40 |
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you are exactly right, its a mix of energy sources |
trekbiker |
Dec-28-06 03:11 PM |
#12 |
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Two words explain it all: PAID TROLLS |
kestrel91316 |
Dec-28-06 04:04 PM |
#16 |
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I thought about that one too |
LSK |
Dec-28-06 04:30 PM |
#22 |
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Paid trolls would be better at this. |
GliderGuider |
Dec-28-06 04:49 PM |
#24 |
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So A Difference Of Opinion = 'Paid Troll'? |
loindelrio |
Dec-28-06 07:26 PM |
#28 |
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Many prefer to talk about the "big" idea and find taking a 'smaller' less momentous, practical |
JohnWxy |
Dec-28-06 04:10 PM |
#18 |
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In principle, I would agree. On the other hand magical thinking causes a lot of |
NNadir |
Dec-28-06 10:50 PM |
#35 |
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I know what you're getting at. Photovoltaic electricity is a small % of energy. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Dec-29-06 12:05 AM |
#41 |
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Thank you for your enlightening discussion of primary energy. |
NNadir |
Dec-29-06 12:21 AM |
#45 |
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Such a kidder. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Dec-29-06 09:56 AM |
#47 |
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excuse me? |
garybeck |
Dec-29-06 12:08 AM |
#42 |
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Um do you know the difference between 3 and 913? |
NNadir |
Dec-29-06 12:19 AM |
#43 |
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Nice photo |
Dead_Parrot |
Dec-29-06 08:33 PM |
#52 |
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I think it's because......... |
oldhippie |
Dec-29-06 06:19 PM |
#49 |
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