NNadir
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Fri Apr-29-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #82 |
| 175. Radionuclides with intermediate half-lives. |
|
In the earlier series of posts on the subject of so called "nuclear waste," I deliberately covered the long lived nuclei. I did so because one feature of the general scientific illiteracy that marks the modern (or should we say re-medievalized?) United States is the belief that if something remains radioactive for a long time, it is somehow more dangerous than something that remains radioactive a short time. Actually the inverse is true, the longer the half-life of a particular nuclei, the less dangerous it is. The shorter the half-life, the more dangerous it is.
One will, irrespective of how much education one attempts to provide, always hear appalling nonsense like, "'nuclear waste' stays radioactive for millions of years..." stated as if to mean "'nuclear waste' is dangerous for millions of years." This is specious balderdash of course. It is true that the earth has always been radioactive, and always will be, unless we build so many nuclear power plants (not likely) that we actually eliminate radioactivity from the planet. In fact the only way to reduce the radioactivity of the planet overall - although it would take about a millennium to do so - is to build lots and lots of nuclear power plants. Even then, it is really not possible to eliminate radioactivity since there are some naturally occurring radionuclides, K-40 being the most problematic, that are not consumed in nuclear reactors as the radioactive elements thorium and uranium are.
Because this particular bit of illiteracy, the confusion between half-life and danger, has such staying power, I have deliberately chosen to discuss first, among the fission products, the elements that have the longest half-lives (leaving out zirconium), iodine (I-129), cesium (Cs-135) and technetium (Tc-99). However, since whatever danger is associated with particular nuclides is a function as much of their chemistry as it is of their radiological features, I have included discussions of nuclides like I-131 (half-life about 8 days) that are not particularly long lived but which, being isotopes, pretty much share the chemistry of this long lived radioisotopes with which they are associated.
In the section on cesium, I also discussed one of the more problematic nuclei in the fission product series, Cs-137. Cesium-137 (half-life 30.23 years) is what I like to think of as an "intermediate" nucleus. It has a half life that is sufficiently long lived that it is not extremely easy to simply get rid of it by letting it decay for a short period; on the other hand it is really easy to imagine - for the reasonably sensible anyway - isolating it for a few generations during which time it will decay.
In a series of posts that follow, I will discuss other elements with radioisotopes that fit this class, but which are not associated with radioisotopes having half-lives on the order of hundreds of thousands or millions of years. Some of these elements are elements like strontium, cerium, ruthenium, europium and samarium, each of which has isotopes among the fission products that have half-lives in the general range of just under 1 year to just under 100 years.
As before, I will discuss these elements in two sections, one that examines the problematic aspects of these elements, and another that examines mitigating circumstances by which such elements can be managed or rendered into uniquely useful materials.
|
| -EU study of external costs of energy: What you pay with your flesh. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-04 07:23 PM |
#0 |
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external costs of Chernobyl? |
villager |
Mar-07-04 07:29 PM |
#1 |
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At Three Mile Island the external costs were essentially zero. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-04 08:02 PM |
#4 |
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"Yours is a reaction that is pretty typical, and pretty wrong" |
villager |
Mar-07-04 10:15 PM |
#6 |
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The condescension derives from scientific reality. |
NNadir |
Mar-14-04 12:21 AM |
#16 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-14-04 09:40 AM |
#17 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-14-04 09:46 AM |
#18 |
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Nice tombstone treepig |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 10:27 AM |
#123 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 05:59 PM |
#127 |
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Chernobyl's soiled legacy |
Bdog |
Mar-14-04 02:15 PM |
#19 |
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I have the full one page article in front of me and will type the data... |
NNadir |
Mar-15-04 11:51 AM |
#23 |
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On the subject of controls and comparisons. |
NNadir |
Mar-15-04 12:30 PM |
#24 |
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It proves, once again |
Bdog |
Mar-17-04 08:50 AM |
#37 |
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I hate corrupt DNA. |
NNadir |
Mar-17-04 09:50 AM |
#41 |
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I know... |
Bdog |
Mar-17-04 09:31 PM |
#44 |
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DNA is the program of life. |
Bdog |
Mar-17-04 10:40 PM |
#45 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 06:28 AM |
#47 |
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'Sophisticated Molecular Machine' Is Found To Govern Cell's Reading Of DNA |
Bdog |
Mar-18-04 08:41 AM |
#49 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 01:49 PM |
#52 |
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No, I care very deeply. Which is why I have spent decades understanding |
NNadir |
Mar-18-04 10:19 AM |
#51 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-15-04 01:37 PM |
#25 |
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Thanx for jumping in here. |
NNadir |
Mar-15-04 03:45 PM |
#27 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-15-04 05:31 PM |
#30 |
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I hate to disagree, but Chernobyl is rarely discussed so dispassionately. |
NNadir |
Mar-15-04 08:17 PM |
#31 |
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My only beef with nuclear power is |
JCCyC |
Mar-17-04 09:34 AM |
#38 |
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This is true. The resource will only last about three millenia. |
NNadir |
Mar-17-04 09:43 AM |
#39 |
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Would it last 3000 years... |
JCCyC |
Mar-17-04 09:48 AM |
#40 |
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It would last about 3000 years if world-wide energy consumption stabilized |
NNadir |
Mar-18-04 11:04 PM |
#61 |
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3000 year supply??? Don't think so... |
jpak |
Mar-06-05 05:12 PM |
#119 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-06-05 06:12 PM |
#120 |
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The concentration of uranium in seawater is 3 µg (micrograms) per liter |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 11:37 AM |
#124 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 05:58 PM |
#126 |
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Honesty and politics |
cprise |
Mar-16-04 05:29 AM |
#32 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-16-04 06:35 AM |
#33 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-16-04 06:44 AM |
#34 |
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Actually it is not "hysteria". The study I included shows that while |
NNadir |
Mar-16-04 07:18 AM |
#35 |
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Chernobyl raised mutations 600% |
Bdog |
Mar-14-04 02:20 PM |
#20 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-15-04 01:47 PM |
#26 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-15-04 05:22 PM |
#29 |
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Fitness loss and germline mutations in barn swallows breeding in Chernobyl |
Bdog |
Mar-14-04 03:08 PM |
#21 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-15-04 05:12 PM |
#28 |
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It proves, once again |
Bdog |
Mar-17-04 08:48 AM |
#36 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-17-04 03:53 PM |
#42 |
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Perhaps you don’t understand what you are reading and quoting. |
Bdog |
Mar-17-04 09:25 PM |
#43 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 06:25 AM |
#46 |
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Just some advice. |
NNadir |
Mar-18-04 07:15 AM |
#48 |
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Meow |
Bdog |
Mar-18-04 09:27 AM |
#50 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 02:09 PM |
#53 |
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Name one place ... |
Bdog |
Mar-18-04 02:33 PM |
#54 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 03:15 PM |
#55 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 03:46 PM |
#56 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 03:50 PM |
#57 |
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Your posts are silly and meaningless. |
Bdog |
Mar-18-04 07:18 PM |
#58 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-18-04 08:23 PM |
#59 |
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Well done. |
NNadir |
Mar-18-04 10:44 PM |
#60 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-19-04 06:46 AM |
#62 |
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Well the question of hormesis arose, as I understand it, because |
NNadir |
Mar-19-04 02:29 PM |
#63 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-20-04 07:54 AM |
#64 |
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Fascinating what a mixed bag it is! |
Ready4Change |
Mar-07-04 07:35 PM |
#2 |
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I'm not so surprised to see PV at 0.6 |
RoadRunner |
Mar-07-04 07:49 PM |
#3 |
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When you look at the numbers PV does quite well. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-04 08:10 PM |
#5 |
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PV is more valuable than that |
cprise |
Mar-08-04 12:14 AM |
#7 |
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Now it's worth it to look at total cost, external + generating. |
NNadir |
Mar-08-04 10:41 PM |
#8 |
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There is a huge difference between refereed journals and promotional |
Bdog |
Mar-09-04 10:22 AM |
#9 |
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Oh jeeze... |
NNadir |
Mar-09-04 11:43 AM |
#10 |
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toxic uranium tailings next to river that supplies water to southern CA |
Bdog |
Mar-13-04 01:21 PM |
#15 |
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There is a problem with that chart |
cprise |
Mar-09-04 12:48 PM |
#11 |
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Gee, I hate to agree with you on something, but that's a valid criticism. |
NNadir |
Mar-13-04 01:37 AM |
#13 |
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Generator |
BareKnuckledLiberal |
Mar-12-04 09:50 PM |
#12 |
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Cool song. I remember the fool Sting, a blatant consumer if there ever |
NNadir |
Mar-13-04 01:43 AM |
#14 |
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What a great debate |
JetCityLiberal |
Mar-15-04 01:40 AM |
#22 |
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If no one objects, I would like to kick this thread up so it's |
NNadir |
Mar-31-04 04:24 PM |
#65 |
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I would like to repeat the statement in post #65. |
NNadir |
May-23-04 12:34 AM |
#66 |
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As I am referring to this study in another thread, I'm kicking it again. |
NNadir |
Jun-13-04 04:27 PM |
#67 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-03-04 08:56 AM |
#68 |
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I recall you from the old days at SmirkingChimp. |
NNadir |
Jul-03-04 09:48 AM |
#69 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-03-04 10:00 AM |
#70 |
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Nice strawman seventhson |
jpak |
Mar-08-05 01:21 PM |
#136 |
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I bump this thread every once in a while when I need it in another thread. |
NNadir |
Aug-14-04 02:42 AM |
#71 |
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Bump away. Its a good thread. |
Moderator |
Aug-14-04 02:59 AM |
#72 |
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If you don't mind, I will do it again, as I need it again. |
NNadir |
Sep-18-04 10:45 AM |
#73 |
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Once again. |
NNadir |
Nov-15-04 07:02 PM |
#74 |
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I have studied these issues. |
Mackenzie |
Nov-20-04 10:45 PM |
#75 |
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My own main "objections" |
BareKnuckledLiberal |
Nov-21-04 05:46 AM |
#76 |
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These are valid concerns. |
NNadir |
Nov-21-04 10:42 AM |
#78 |
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In terms of noise and traffic, it is rather like an office park, from what |
NNadir |
Nov-21-04 10:07 AM |
#77 |
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Thank you. |
Mackenzie |
Nov-21-04 10:55 AM |
#79 |
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In defense of those of us who protested; we had very little history |
NNadir |
Nov-21-04 11:21 AM |
#80 |
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Let us now consider how much waste is generated by coal. |
NNadir |
Dec-28-04 07:55 PM |
#81 |
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For my discussion of radioiodide I need these figures on mercury from coal |
NNadir |
Mar-31-05 07:13 PM |
#169 |
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Let us now consider the quantity and quality of "nuclear waste." |
NNadir |
Dec-31-04 06:47 AM |
#82 |
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First links to some discussions here of the induction product tritium. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 09:42 AM |
#83 |
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Cesium, Sakarhov, and Pauling. My first impressions of radiocesium. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 10:52 PM |
#84 |
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Cesium: The bad news. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:07 PM |
#85 |
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#1: Cesium forms lots of soluble compounds. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:09 PM |
#86 |
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#2. Cesium is a rather common fission product. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:16 PM |
#87 |
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#3 Cesium is not of vast economic importance. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:23 PM |
#88 |
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#4. The isotope Cs-135 has a very long half-life. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:26 PM |
#89 |
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#5. The transmutation of Cesium isotopes is complicated and difficult. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:31 PM |
#90 |
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Do you have any well-documented sources |
RafterMan |
Feb-19-05 11:55 PM |
#93 |
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I have a non-internet source in my home library. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 12:28 AM |
#94 |
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You may wish to check post #100, (my #5) below which addresses this |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 09:05 AM |
#102 |
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#6. Cesium-137 is a powerful gamma emitter. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:33 PM |
#91 |
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Cesium: Mitigating factors and good news. |
NNadir |
Feb-19-05 11:39 PM |
#92 |
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Here is my source |
RafterMan |
Feb-20-05 12:35 AM |
#95 |
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#1: At full power, the yield of Cesium-135 is substantially reduced. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 07:06 AM |
#96 |
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#2 The bioavailability of cesium isotopes decrease quickly in soils. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 07:13 AM |
#97 |
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#3The earth naturally contains hundreds of billions of curies of K and Rb. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 07:22 AM |
#98 |
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#4 A very stable water insoluble cesium mineral is known. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 07:51 AM |
#99 |
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#5. At constant power, less and less cesium forms every year. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 09:02 AM |
#100 |
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There is a typo in this post. |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 10:47 AM |
#103 |
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I think there's another typo |
RafterMan |
Feb-20-05 10:30 PM |
#105 |
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I think you may be making a mistake. |
NNadir |
Feb-21-05 07:28 AM |
#106 |
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It's just plain wrong -period. |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 01:44 PM |
#125 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 06:14 PM |
#128 |
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If anyone serious wants a more detailed description of radioequilibrium |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 06:39 PM |
#129 |
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I have more on this subject of mitigation, good news, and technology but |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 09:04 AM |
#101 |
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#6 Even if 100% escaped, radiocesium would have trivial biological effects |
NNadir |
Feb-20-05 07:09 PM |
#104 |
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The - most - bizarre - post - ever |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 07:14 PM |
#130 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 07:35 PM |
#131 |
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The annual dose from K-40 in human tissue is |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 08:41 PM |
#132 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 09:00 PM |
#135 |
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Cesium-135 is the most potent ion propulsion engine fuel known. |
NNadir |
Feb-22-05 07:55 PM |
#107 |
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Technetium: The first synthetic element; still being made by doctors. |
NNadir |
Mar-03-05 10:25 PM |
#108 |
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Errata and additions. |
NNadir |
Mar-04-05 09:04 PM |
#109 |
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An interesting note on the Noddacks, "Masurium" and Rhenium. |
NNadir |
Mar-12-05 02:24 AM |
#143 |
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Technetium: Fission yield then the bad news about Technetium. |
NNadir |
Mar-05-05 12:25 PM |
#113 |
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#1: Technetium has an "intermediate" half-life of 211,100 years. |
NNadir |
Mar-05-05 07:58 PM |
#115 |
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#2: The aqueous chemistry of Technetium is dominated by an anion. |
NNadir |
Mar-05-05 08:49 PM |
#116 |
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#3: Pertechnic acid and ditechnetium heptaoxide are volatile compounds. |
NNadir |
Mar-06-05 05:37 AM |
#117 |
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#4: The radioequilibrium value for Tc accumulation is theoretically high. |
NNadir |
Mar-06-05 08:57 AM |
#118 |
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#5: Technetium heptafluoride is volatile. |
NNadir |
Mar-06-05 08:44 PM |
#121 |
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Note my error in post #82. I noticed this in preparation for the Tc |
NNadir |
Mar-06-05 09:31 PM |
#122 |
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Stenography is not Science |
jpak |
Mar-07-05 08:46 PM |
#133 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-07-05 08:58 PM |
#134 |
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Nonsense |
jpak |
Mar-12-05 02:34 PM |
#145 |
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Whatever. |
NNadir |
Mar-12-05 03:29 PM |
#146 |
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Some of us know all about chemistry and radiation |
jpak |
Mar-12-05 04:28 PM |
#147 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-12-05 07:02 PM |
#148 |
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Technetium: Mitigating Factors and Good News. |
NNadir |
Mar-08-05 07:04 PM |
#137 |
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#1: Ammonium pertechnate is one of the best corrosion inhibitors known. |
NNadir |
Mar-08-05 10:20 PM |
#138 |
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#2: People routinely have technetium injected into their veins. |
NNadir |
Mar-09-05 07:00 PM |
#139 |
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#3. Monoisotopic Tc is easily transmutable into valuable ruthenium. |
NNadir |
Mar-09-05 10:55 PM |
#140 |
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Technetium has a high melting point, and excellent mechanical properties. |
NNadir |
Mar-10-05 09:52 PM |
#141 |
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#5. Technetium is a pure beta emitter with no decay chain. |
NNadir |
Mar-11-05 09:52 PM |
#142 |
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#6. The rate of migration of Tc at Oklo was 0.01 mm/year. |
NNadir |
Mar-12-05 11:44 AM |
#144 |
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Just to be a little more graphic about this, this means that if the Tc |
NNadir |
Mar-13-05 06:35 AM |
#150 |
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#7. Technetium fluoride is volatile. |
NNadir |
Mar-12-05 07:47 PM |
#149 |
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#8. I happen to be in a university library (not the library I usually... |
NNadir |
Mar-15-05 05:31 PM |
#151 |
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Radioiodine: In medicine, in nuclear catastrophe, in injury, & in death. |
NNadir |
Mar-20-05 04:00 PM |
#156 |
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Radioiodine, risks, difficulties, concerns and problems. |
NNadir |
Mar-22-05 07:00 PM |
#157 |
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#1: Iodine is important in the chemistry of life. |
NNadir |
Mar-23-05 09:25 PM |
#158 |
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#2. Iodine easily escapes in nuclear war, accidents and reprocessing. |
NNadir |
Mar-25-05 08:20 PM |
#159 |
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#3. Radioequilibrium places few limits on the accumulation of I-129. |
NNadir |
Mar-26-05 04:53 PM |
#162 |
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#4. Physical decontamination of I-129 is technically impossible. |
NNadir |
Mar-26-05 08:44 PM |
#163 |
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#5. At the Oklo nuclear reactors, iodine was not retained in the reactor. |
NNadir |
Mar-27-05 09:56 AM |
#164 |
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#6. I-129 is always produced in the presence of I-127. |
NNadir |
Mar-27-05 11:04 PM |
#165 |
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#7: Iodine has little economic value. |
NNadir |
Mar-30-05 10:00 PM |
#168 |
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Iodine, the Greenpeace Headlines and Reality. |
NNadir |
Mar-29-05 08:10 PM |
#166 |
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#1. Iodine is a trace biological element; I-129, a trace of a trace. |
NNadir |
Mar-30-05 05:16 AM |
#167 |
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#2: Iodine can be recovered and contained, but is it worth it to do so? |
NNadir |
Mar-31-05 09:28 PM |
#170 |
  -
Relevant to this case, consider this article. |
NNadir |
Apr-01-05 05:39 AM |
#171 |
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#3: The creation of one atom of I-129 prevents 71 actinide decays. |
NNadir |
Apr-02-05 08:16 AM |
#172 |
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Iodine is easily transmutable into valuable xenon. |
NNadir |
Apr-03-05 08:04 AM |
#173 |
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#5. The main cancer associated with I-131 is largely curable. |
NNadir |
Apr-10-05 06:32 AM |
#174 |
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Radionuclides with intermediate half-lives. |
NNadir |
Apr-29-05 07:42 PM |
#175 |
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The chemistry, biochemistry and nuclear physics of Strontium. |
NNadir |
May-01-05 05:47 AM |
#176 |
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Strontium, risks, difficulties, concerns and problems. |
NNadir |
May-09-05 09:52 AM |
#179 |
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Total newbie question here. |
BlueEyedSon |
Mar-05-05 05:49 AM |
#110 |
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An excellent question, |
NNadir |
Mar-05-05 08:11 AM |
#111 |
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SOTA = state of the art. Years ago the thermal problem with |
BlueEyedSon |
Mar-05-05 12:01 PM |
#112 |
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It has changed for some reactors, not all. |
NNadir |
Mar-05-05 12:43 PM |
#114 |
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PBR, and not the beer |
dcfirefighter |
Mar-25-05 10:24 PM |
#160 |
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I am often asked this question. |
NNadir |
Mar-26-05 06:39 AM |
#161 |
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I Live in the Heart of Coal Country |
MountainKeeper |
Mar-15-05 11:47 PM |
#152 |
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I feel for you. I am very much aware of what is being done to your home. |
NNadir |
Mar-16-05 04:46 AM |
#153 |
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Yes, the State of West Virginia could ban that practice today |
jpak |
Mar-16-05 11:17 AM |
#154 |
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Yeah right. |
NNadir |
Mar-16-05 10:34 PM |
#155 |
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PV has higher externalities than nuclear???? |
Filius Nullius |
May-02-05 12:33 AM |
#177 |
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This is calculation, not religion. Their methods are given. |
NNadir |
May-02-05 02:59 AM |
#178 |