You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #88: #3 Cesium is not of vast economic importance. [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. #3 Cesium is not of vast economic importance.
Right now, cesium has relatively few industrial uses and thus it is of relatively low economic value. The main use of cesium is to make a salt, cesium formate, that is used as a lubricant in drilling operations. Cesium is also used as a counter ion for salts of fatty acids. These are mainly used in the powders found in surgical gloves. Cesium is also used in atomic clocks, in photoelectric tubes, in vacuum tubes still used by some in the high end stereo market, and in the preparation of certain types crystals for optical uses. Cesium fluoride, and a few other cesium compounds can be useful in organic synthesis. These applications, of course, are hardly wise situations for using mixtures of radioactive isotopes, however, and have almost no bearing on the issue of what we might do with radiocesium.

Cesium has a huge potential use in ion propulsion engines in outer space, and the isotope Cesium-135 is the best possible substance known for this purpose, but such an application would require, of course, an active presence of humanity beyond earths atmosphere. Because of cost, it is somewhat dubious to expect an age of interplanetary travel will actually occur but I will nonetheless further discuss this possibility briefly below and see how much Cesium such operations might consume.

The radioisotope Cs-137 has many uses, although hardly enough, currently, to utilize even a fraction of that which is generated. That said, one of the worst radiological accidents in history, one of the very rare cases where someone has actually been injured by a commercially generated fission product, involves Cesium-137. This accident occurred in Goiana, Brazil, when a cancer treatment machine in which Cesium-137 was used, was stolen by scrap dealers. Four people died and an indeterminate number, possibly in the hundreds, were injured. It is expected that some of those exposed will ultimately get leukemia, a disease they probably not have gotten without such exposure.

http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/Cas...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -EU study of external costs of energy: What you pay with your flesh. NNadir  Mar-07-04 07:23 PM   #0 
  - external costs of Chernobyl?  villager   Mar-07-04 07:29 PM   #1 
  - At Three Mile Island the external costs were essentially zero.  NNadir   Mar-07-04 08:02 PM   #4 
     - "Yours is a reaction that is pretty typical, and pretty wrong"  villager   Mar-07-04 10:15 PM   #6 
        - The condescension derives from scientific reality.  NNadir   Mar-14-04 12:21 AM   #16 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-14-04 09:40 AM   #17 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-14-04 09:46 AM   #18 
              - Nice tombstone treepig  jpak   Mar-07-05 10:27 AM   #123 
                 - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 05:59 PM   #127 
           - Chernobyl's soiled legacy  Bdog   Mar-14-04 02:15 PM   #19 
           - I have the full one page article in front of me and will type the data...  NNadir   Mar-15-04 11:51 AM   #23 
           - On the subject of controls and comparisons.  NNadir   Mar-15-04 12:30 PM   #24 
           - It proves, once again  Bdog   Mar-17-04 08:50 AM   #37 
              - I hate corrupt DNA.  NNadir   Mar-17-04 09:50 AM   #41 
                 - I know...  Bdog   Mar-17-04 09:31 PM   #44 
                    - DNA is the program of life.  Bdog   Mar-17-04 10:40 PM   #45 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 06:28 AM   #47 
                       - 'Sophisticated Molecular Machine' Is Found To Govern Cell's Reading Of DNA  Bdog   Mar-18-04 08:41 AM   #49 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 01:49 PM   #52 
                    - No, I care very deeply. Which is why I have spent decades understanding  NNadir   Mar-18-04 10:19 AM   #51 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-04 01:37 PM   #25 
              - Thanx for jumping in here.  NNadir   Mar-15-04 03:45 PM   #27 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-04 05:31 PM   #30 
                 - I hate to disagree, but Chernobyl is rarely discussed so dispassionately.  NNadir   Mar-15-04 08:17 PM   #31 
                    - My only beef with nuclear power is  JCCyC   Mar-17-04 09:34 AM   #38 
                       - This is true. The resource will only last about three millenia.  NNadir   Mar-17-04 09:43 AM   #39 
                          - Would it last 3000 years...  JCCyC   Mar-17-04 09:48 AM   #40 
                          - It would last about 3000 years if world-wide energy consumption stabilized  NNadir   Mar-18-04 11:04 PM   #61 
                          - 3000 year supply??? Don't think so...  jpak   Mar-06-05 05:12 PM   #119 
                             - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-06-05 06:12 PM   #120 
                                - The concentration of uranium in seawater is 3 g (micrograms) per liter  jpak   Mar-07-05 11:37 AM   #124 
                                   - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 05:58 PM   #126 
                 - Honesty and politics  cprise   Mar-16-04 05:29 AM   #32 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-16-04 06:35 AM   #33 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-16-04 06:44 AM   #34 
                    - Actually it is not "hysteria". The study I included shows that while  NNadir   Mar-16-04 07:18 AM   #35 
           - Chernobyl raised mutations 600%  Bdog   Mar-14-04 02:20 PM   #20 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-04 01:47 PM   #26 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-04 05:22 PM   #29 
           - Fitness loss and germline mutations in barn swallows breeding in Chernobyl  Bdog   Mar-14-04 03:08 PM   #21 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-15-04 05:12 PM   #28 
                 - It proves, once again  Bdog   Mar-17-04 08:48 AM   #36 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-17-04 03:53 PM   #42 
                       - Perhaps you dont understand what you are reading and quoting.  Bdog   Mar-17-04 09:25 PM   #43 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 06:25 AM   #46 
                             - Just some advice.  NNadir   Mar-18-04 07:15 AM   #48 
                             - Meow  Bdog   Mar-18-04 09:27 AM   #50 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 02:09 PM   #53 
                                   - Name one place ...  Bdog   Mar-18-04 02:33 PM   #54 
                                      - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 03:15 PM   #55 
                                      - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 03:46 PM   #56 
                                      - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 03:50 PM   #57 
                                         - Your posts are silly and meaningless.  Bdog   Mar-18-04 07:18 PM   #58 
                                            - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-18-04 08:23 PM   #59 
                                               - Well done.  NNadir   Mar-18-04 10:44 PM   #60 
                                                  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-19-04 06:46 AM   #62 
                                                     - Well the question of hormesis arose, as I understand it, because  NNadir   Mar-19-04 02:29 PM   #63 
                                                     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-20-04 07:54 AM   #64 
  - Fascinating what a mixed bag it is!  Ready4Change   Mar-07-04 07:35 PM   #2 
  - I'm not so surprised to see PV at 0.6  RoadRunner   Mar-07-04 07:49 PM   #3 
  - When you look at the numbers PV does quite well.  NNadir   Mar-07-04 08:10 PM   #5 
     - PV is more valuable than that  cprise   Mar-08-04 12:14 AM   #7 
  - Now it's worth it to look at total cost, external + generating.  NNadir   Mar-08-04 10:41 PM   #8 
  - There is a huge difference between refereed journals and promotional  Bdog   Mar-09-04 10:22 AM   #9 
  - Oh jeeze...  NNadir   Mar-09-04 11:43 AM   #10 
     - toxic uranium tailings next to river that supplies water to southern CA  Bdog   Mar-13-04 01:21 PM   #15 
  - There is a problem with that chart  cprise   Mar-09-04 12:48 PM   #11 
  - Gee, I hate to agree with you on something, but that's a valid criticism.  NNadir   Mar-13-04 01:37 AM   #13 
  - Generator  BareKnuckledLiberal   Mar-12-04 09:50 PM   #12 
  - Cool song. I remember the fool Sting, a blatant consumer if there ever  NNadir   Mar-13-04 01:43 AM   #14 
  - What a great debate  JetCityLiberal   Mar-15-04 01:40 AM   #22 
  - If no one objects, I would like to kick this thread up so it's  NNadir   Mar-31-04 04:24 PM   #65 
  - I would like to repeat the statement in post #65.  NNadir   May-23-04 12:34 AM   #66 
  - As I am referring to this study in another thread, I'm kicking it again.  NNadir   Jun-13-04 04:27 PM   #67 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-03-04 08:56 AM   #68 
  - I recall you from the old days at SmirkingChimp.  NNadir   Jul-03-04 09:48 AM   #69 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-03-04 10:00 AM   #70 
  - Nice strawman seventhson  jpak   Mar-08-05 01:21 PM   #136 
  - I bump this thread every once in a while when I need it in another thread.  NNadir   Aug-14-04 02:42 AM   #71 
     - Bump away. Its a good thread.  Moderator   Aug-14-04 02:59 AM   #72 
        - If you don't mind, I will do it again, as I need it again.  NNadir   Sep-18-04 10:45 AM   #73 
           - Once again.  NNadir   Nov-15-04 07:02 PM   #74 
  - I have studied these issues.  Mackenzie   Nov-20-04 10:45 PM   #75 
  - My own main "objections"  BareKnuckledLiberal   Nov-21-04 05:46 AM   #76 
  - These are valid concerns.  NNadir   Nov-21-04 10:42 AM   #78 
  - In terms of noise and traffic, it is rather like an office park, from what  NNadir   Nov-21-04 10:07 AM   #77 
     - Thank you.  Mackenzie   Nov-21-04 10:55 AM   #79 
        - In defense of those of us who protested; we had very little history  NNadir   Nov-21-04 11:21 AM   #80 
  - Let us now consider how much waste is generated by coal.  NNadir   Dec-28-04 07:55 PM   #81 
  - For my discussion of radioiodide I need these figures on mercury from coal  NNadir   Mar-31-05 07:13 PM   #169 
  - Let us now consider the quantity and quality of "nuclear waste."  NNadir   Dec-31-04 06:47 AM   #82 
  - First links to some discussions here of the induction product tritium.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 09:42 AM   #83 
  - Cesium, Sakarhov, and Pauling. My first impressions of radiocesium.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 10:52 PM   #84 
  - Cesium: The bad news.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:07 PM   #85 
  - #1: Cesium forms lots of soluble compounds.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:09 PM   #86 
  - #2. Cesium is a rather common fission product.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:16 PM   #87 
  - #3 Cesium is not of vast economic importance.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:23 PM   #88 
  - #4. The isotope Cs-135 has a very long half-life.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:26 PM   #89 
  - #5. The transmutation of Cesium isotopes is complicated and difficult.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:31 PM   #90 
  - Do you have any well-documented sources  RafterMan   Feb-19-05 11:55 PM   #93 
     - I have a non-internet source in my home library.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 12:28 AM   #94 
     - You may wish to check post #100, (my #5) below which addresses this  NNadir   Feb-20-05 09:05 AM   #102 
  - #6. Cesium-137 is a powerful gamma emitter.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:33 PM   #91 
  - Cesium: Mitigating factors and good news.  NNadir   Feb-19-05 11:39 PM   #92 
     - Here is my source  RafterMan   Feb-20-05 12:35 AM   #95 
     - #1: At full power, the yield of Cesium-135 is substantially reduced.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 07:06 AM   #96 
     - #2 The bioavailability of cesium isotopes decrease quickly in soils.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 07:13 AM   #97 
     - #3The earth naturally contains hundreds of billions of curies of K and Rb.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 07:22 AM   #98 
     - #4 A very stable water insoluble cesium mineral is known.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 07:51 AM   #99 
     - #5. At constant power, less and less cesium forms every year.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 09:02 AM   #100 
     - There is a typo in this post.  NNadir   Feb-20-05 10:47 AM   #103 
     - I think there's another typo  RafterMan   Feb-20-05 10:30 PM   #105 
        - I think you may be making a mistake.  NNadir   Feb-21-05 07:28 AM   #106 
        - It's just plain wrong -period.  jpak   Mar-07-05 01:44 PM   #125 
           - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 06:14 PM   #128 
              - If anyone serious wants a more detailed description of radioequilibrium  NNadir   Mar-07-05 06:39 PM   #129 
     - I have more on this subject of mitigation, good news, and technology but  NNadir   Feb-20-05 09:04 AM   #101 
     - #6 Even if 100% escaped, radiocesium would have trivial biological effects  NNadir   Feb-20-05 07:09 PM   #104 
     - The - most - bizarre - post - ever  jpak   Mar-07-05 07:14 PM   #130 
        - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 07:35 PM   #131 
           - The annual dose from K-40 in human tissue is  jpak   Mar-07-05 08:41 PM   #132 
              - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 09:00 PM   #135 
     - Cesium-135 is the most potent ion propulsion engine fuel known.  NNadir   Feb-22-05 07:55 PM   #107 
  - Technetium: The first synthetic element; still being made by doctors.  NNadir   Mar-03-05 10:25 PM   #108 
  - Errata and additions.  NNadir   Mar-04-05 09:04 PM   #109 
  - An interesting note on the Noddacks, "Masurium" and Rhenium.  NNadir   Mar-12-05 02:24 AM   #143 
  - Technetium: Fission yield then the bad news about Technetium.  NNadir   Mar-05-05 12:25 PM   #113 
     - #1: Technetium has an "intermediate" half-life of 211,100 years.  NNadir   Mar-05-05 07:58 PM   #115 
     - #2: The aqueous chemistry of Technetium is dominated by an anion.  NNadir   Mar-05-05 08:49 PM   #116 
     - #3: Pertechnic acid and ditechnetium heptaoxide are volatile compounds.  NNadir   Mar-06-05 05:37 AM   #117 
     - #4: The radioequilibrium value for Tc accumulation is theoretically high.  NNadir   Mar-06-05 08:57 AM   #118 
     - #5: Technetium heptafluoride is volatile.  NNadir   Mar-06-05 08:44 PM   #121 
     - Note my error in post #82. I noticed this in preparation for the Tc  NNadir   Mar-06-05 09:31 PM   #122 
     - Stenography is not Science  jpak   Mar-07-05 08:46 PM   #133 
     - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-07-05 08:58 PM   #134 
        - Nonsense  jpak   Mar-12-05 02:34 PM   #145 
           - Whatever.  NNadir   Mar-12-05 03:29 PM   #146 
              - Some of us know all about chemistry and radiation  jpak   Mar-12-05 04:28 PM   #147 
                 - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-12-05 07:02 PM   #148 
     - Technetium: Mitigating Factors and Good News.  NNadir   Mar-08-05 07:04 PM   #137 
        - #1: Ammonium pertechnate is one of the best corrosion inhibitors known.  NNadir   Mar-08-05 10:20 PM   #138 
        - #2: People routinely have technetium injected into their veins.  NNadir   Mar-09-05 07:00 PM   #139 
        - #3. Monoisotopic Tc is easily transmutable into valuable ruthenium.  NNadir   Mar-09-05 10:55 PM   #140 
        - Technetium has a high melting point, and excellent mechanical properties.  NNadir   Mar-10-05 09:52 PM   #141 
        - #5. Technetium is a pure beta emitter with no decay chain.  NNadir   Mar-11-05 09:52 PM   #142 
        - #6. The rate of migration of Tc at Oklo was 0.01 mm/year.  NNadir   Mar-12-05 11:44 AM   #144 
        - Just to be a little more graphic about this, this means that if the Tc  NNadir   Mar-13-05 06:35 AM   #150 
        - #7. Technetium fluoride is volatile.  NNadir   Mar-12-05 07:47 PM   #149 
        - #8. I happen to be in a university library (not the library I usually...  NNadir   Mar-15-05 05:31 PM   #151 
  - Radioiodine: In medicine, in nuclear catastrophe, in injury, & in death.  NNadir   Mar-20-05 04:00 PM   #156 
  - Radioiodine, risks, difficulties, concerns and problems.  NNadir   Mar-22-05 07:00 PM   #157 
  - #1: Iodine is important in the chemistry of life.  NNadir   Mar-23-05 09:25 PM   #158 
  - #2. Iodine easily escapes in nuclear war, accidents and reprocessing.  NNadir   Mar-25-05 08:20 PM   #159 
  - #3. Radioequilibrium places few limits on the accumulation of I-129.  NNadir   Mar-26-05 04:53 PM   #162 
  - #4. Physical decontamination of I-129 is technically impossible.  NNadir   Mar-26-05 08:44 PM   #163 
  - #5. At the Oklo nuclear reactors, iodine was not retained in the reactor.  NNadir   Mar-27-05 09:56 AM   #164 
  - #6. I-129 is always produced in the presence of I-127.  NNadir   Mar-27-05 11:04 PM   #165 
  - #7: Iodine has little economic value.  NNadir   Mar-30-05 10:00 PM   #168 
  - Iodine, the Greenpeace Headlines and Reality.  NNadir   Mar-29-05 08:10 PM   #166 
     - #1. Iodine is a trace biological element; I-129, a trace of a trace.  NNadir   Mar-30-05 05:16 AM   #167 
     - #2: Iodine can be recovered and contained, but is it worth it to do so?  NNadir   Mar-31-05 09:28 PM   #170 
     - Relevant to this case, consider this article.  NNadir   Apr-01-05 05:39 AM   #171 
     - #3: The creation of one atom of I-129 prevents 71 actinide decays.  NNadir   Apr-02-05 08:16 AM   #172 
     - Iodine is easily transmutable into valuable xenon.  NNadir   Apr-03-05 08:04 AM   #173 
     - #5. The main cancer associated with I-131 is largely curable.  NNadir   Apr-10-05 06:32 AM   #174 
  - Radionuclides with intermediate half-lives.  NNadir   Apr-29-05 07:42 PM   #175 
     - The chemistry, biochemistry and nuclear physics of Strontium.  NNadir   May-01-05 05:47 AM   #176 
        - Strontium, risks, difficulties, concerns and problems.  NNadir   May-09-05 09:52 AM   #179 
  - Total newbie question here.  BlueEyedSon   Mar-05-05 05:49 AM   #110 
  - An excellent question,  NNadir   Mar-05-05 08:11 AM   #111 
     - SOTA = state of the art. Years ago the thermal problem with  BlueEyedSon   Mar-05-05 12:01 PM   #112 
        - It has changed for some reactors, not all.  NNadir   Mar-05-05 12:43 PM   #114 
           - PBR, and not the beer  dcfirefighter   Mar-25-05 10:24 PM   #160 
              - I am often asked this question.  NNadir   Mar-26-05 06:39 AM   #161 
  - I Live in the Heart of Coal Country  MountainKeeper   Mar-15-05 11:47 PM   #152 
  - I feel for you. I am very much aware of what is being done to your home.  NNadir   Mar-16-05 04:46 AM   #153 
     - Yes, the State of West Virginia could ban that practice today  jpak   Mar-16-05 11:17 AM   #154 
        - Yeah right.  NNadir   Mar-16-05 10:34 PM   #155 
  - PV has higher externalities than nuclear????  Filius Nullius   May-02-05 12:33 AM   #177 
     - This is calculation, not religion. Their methods are given.  NNadir   May-02-05 02:59 AM   #178 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC