Robert Rapier
(33 posts)
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Mon May-22-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #60 |
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See my response above to "leftupnorth". If you don't care about clean energy or renewable energy or sustainability, then coal is just fine. In fact, new ethanol plants are being built now that recognize that coal is a much cheaper energy source. I have noted this in my blog, and it is an adequate economic solution. It is just not one that most environmentalists can embrace.
But, the question I would pose is: Are there more energy efficient options for using the coal? The answer is "Yes". Gasifying the coal and converting it to methanol is a much more energy efficient route than the indirect and heavily subsidized method of converting it into ethanol via corn.
What I oppose in this corn to ethanol scheme is the gross inefficiency, and the fact that we are subsidizing this boondoggle. There are many better solutions, but they don't have tons of lobbyists in Washington funneling money their way.
RR
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| - Grain-Derived Ethanol: The Emperor’s New Clothes |
4dsc |
May-07-06 04:28 PM |
#0 |
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So what is the answer? |
liberal N proud |
May-07-06 04:36 PM |
#1 |
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What if... |
brokensymmetry |
May-07-06 04:38 PM |
#2 |
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If Ethanol is so bad why do they use it in Indy Racing? |
liberal N proud |
May-07-06 04:41 PM |
#3 |
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You don't get it do you |
4dsc |
May-07-06 04:48 PM |
#5 |
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do you also oppose electric power? |
rfkrfk |
May-08-06 06:23 AM |
#16 |
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Oppose electricity? No...but consider... |
brokensymmetry |
May-08-06 08:10 PM |
#22 |
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Yes. What if there isn't any solution? |
hunter |
May-07-06 07:57 PM |
#13 |
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Nicely stated. |
brokensymmetry |
May-07-06 08:52 PM |
#15 |
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Why? |
NNadir |
May-08-06 08:05 AM |
#17 |
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Distributing cyanide to the population of the planet |
Pigwidgeon |
May-08-06 11:24 AM |
#18 |
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The current international death "lottery" is not random. |
NNadir |
May-08-06 12:07 PM |
#20 |
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That's the title I was trying to remember! |
phantom power |
May-10-06 09:35 AM |
#26 |
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"No solution" does not mean everyone dies. |
hunter |
May-10-06 10:35 AM |
#27 |
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Right now there isn't an asnwer |
4dsc |
May-07-06 04:50 PM |
#6 |
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interesting...nt |
melnjones |
May-07-06 04:41 PM |
#4 |
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Corn farming is rough on the environment |
4dsc |
May-07-06 04:58 PM |
#7 |
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Drilling, transporting, and burning oil is much worse |
iconoclastNYC |
May-12-06 04:35 PM |
#43 |
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So is making ethanol |
4dsc |
May-13-06 08:52 AM |
#45 |
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This issue is the conversion thermodynamics |
Coastie for Truth |
May-07-06 05:07 PM |
#8 |
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I thought the biggest downside to ethanol farming was erosion. |
Gregorian |
May-07-06 05:41 PM |
#9 |
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First |
iconoclastNYC |
May-12-06 04:37 PM |
#44 |
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If ethanol ever becomes a major |
Jayhawk Lib |
May-07-06 05:47 PM |
#10 |
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Ethanol: |
nealmhughes |
May-07-06 06:29 PM |
#11 |
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Well said! |
Vetinarii |
May-07-06 07:56 PM |
#12 |
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Passing thru Midwest no fields planted |
hankthecrank |
May-07-06 08:14 PM |
#14 |
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Good stuff. It counters some of the hate-Pimentel crap. |
Pigwidgeon |
May-08-06 11:55 AM |
#19 |
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why is nobody discussing that oil is not renewable |
LSK |
May-08-06 12:55 PM |
#21 |
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Ethanol is not a solution |
4dsc |
May-08-06 09:59 PM |
#23 |
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so we should continue fattening our people with High Fructose Corn Syrup |
LSK |
May-09-06 12:39 AM |
#24 |
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Corn grows back every year. But not in perpetuity |
JohnyCanuck |
May-11-06 10:42 AM |
#31 |
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yes all true |
poopfuel |
May-11-06 11:29 AM |
#32 |
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Where's Johnwyx??? |
4dsc |
May-10-06 04:58 AM |
#25 |
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Yeah! Ethanol won't solve 100% of our energy problems, so we |
kestrel91316 |
May-10-06 11:15 AM |
#28 |
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I won't |
4dsc |
May-11-06 08:48 AM |
#29 |
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Mr. Rapier works for the oil companies |
poopfuel |
May-11-06 09:36 AM |
#30 |
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Bad news... |
4dsc |
May-11-06 06:54 PM |
#36 |
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Ad Hom is an Invalid Argument |
Robert Rapier |
May-21-06 10:38 AM |
#50 |
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Mr. Rapier, again you show yourself having lots of time to blog |
poopfuel |
May-23-06 10:18 AM |
#74 |
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There You Go Again |
Robert Rapier |
May-23-06 11:21 AM |
#75 |
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Oh joy, poopfuel, I want to be a cane field worker in Brazil! |
hunter |
May-23-06 11:37 AM |
#76 |
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I'd be interested to hear your position on solar, wind, geothermal, and |
leftupnorth |
May-11-06 02:13 PM |
#33 |
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I don't want crops "grown where nothing else will grow." |
hunter |
May-11-06 03:38 PM |
#34 |
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I'm not talking about "wild places" like yellowstone |
leftupnorth |
May-11-06 06:09 PM |
#35 |
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Neither am I. |
hunter |
May-11-06 07:41 PM |
#37 |
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ok fine |
leftupnorth |
May-11-06 08:24 PM |
#38 |
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Yeah he thinks |
iconoclastNYC |
May-12-06 04:32 PM |
#41 |
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That's sorta the attitude that got us in this mess... |
hunter |
May-15-06 01:03 AM |
#46 |
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Sounds like that chocolate pudding in my fridge |
Dead_Parrot |
May-15-06 01:24 AM |
#47 |
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solar, wind, geothermal, |
4dsc |
May-12-06 07:07 AM |
#39 |
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If you are thinking of a centralized system |
iconoclastNYC |
May-12-06 04:34 PM |
#42 |
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I am thinking about scale |
4dsc |
May-20-06 02:00 PM |
#48 |
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yep |
leftupnorth |
May-20-06 03:43 PM |
#49 |
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Energy Balance Calcs |
Robert Rapier |
May-21-06 10:44 AM |
#51 |
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His exact words were |
leftupnorth |
May-21-06 11:18 AM |
#52 |
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Then That's a Blantantly False Claim |
Robert Rapier |
May-21-06 11:35 AM |
#53 |
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Here you go, as near as I can get to a transcript. |
leftupnorth |
May-21-06 11:58 AM |
#54 |
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Another "Alternative Metric" |
Robert Rapier |
May-21-06 01:06 PM |
#55 |
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you can claim all you want, but just like me |
leftupnorth |
May-22-06 05:10 AM |
#56 |
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Some Facts |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 09:41 AM |
#59 |
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Um, you should use appeals to facts judiciously. |
NNadir |
May-22-06 12:03 PM |
#63 |
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An Example, Perhaps? |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 01:29 PM |
#64 |
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I was kidding. I never use the sarcasm button. |
NNadir |
May-22-06 01:43 PM |
#65 |
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Welcome to DU, Robert Rapier. |
hunter |
May-22-06 02:46 PM |
#66 |
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Thank You |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 05:47 PM |
#69 |
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Hmmmmmm |
leftupnorth |
May-22-06 04:04 PM |
#67 |
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Please Do Not Misrepresent Me |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 05:44 PM |
#68 |
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well, i guess you're right and i'm wrong |
leftupnorth |
May-22-06 07:04 PM |
#70 |
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Probably |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 09:16 PM |
#71 |
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no |
leftupnorth |
May-22-06 10:16 PM |
#72 |
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We agree that conservation is #1 for next few yrs - but why do you not |
papau |
May-27-06 11:21 AM |
#77 |
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That Would Be Great, But..... |
Robert Rapier |
May-27-06 11:31 AM |
#78 |
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both of your points are basically true - but the situation is changing |
papau |
May-27-06 10:09 PM |
#79 |
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Not Really |
Robert Rapier |
May-28-06 10:10 AM |
#80 |
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We agree - now we need to get the Feds to do something. |
papau |
May-28-06 11:48 AM |
#81 |
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the petroleum to ethanol energy gain is more than 10 to one... |
rfkrfk |
May-22-06 06:37 AM |
#57 |
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But not the fossil fuel ratio |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 09:21 AM |
#58 |
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so what, do you know what coal costs? |
rfkrfk |
May-22-06 10:11 AM |
#60 |
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Yes, I do |
Robert Rapier |
May-22-06 11:16 AM |
#61 |
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That's entirely the wrong way to look at it. |
hunter |
May-22-06 11:59 AM |
#62 |
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It doesn't have to ELIMINATE it |
iconoclastNYC |
May-12-06 04:27 PM |
#40 |
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Hmmm |
Nihil |
May-23-06 04:19 AM |
#73 |
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Bump |
4dsc |
Jun-18-06 04:13 PM |
#82 |
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