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Reply #81: There is no argument for an exclusively bio-fuel economy [View All]

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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. There is no argument for an exclusively bio-fuel economy
What I did state was biodiesel's potential, to help illustrate just how more productive it is compared with other biofuels. I have also defended microalgae farming against some incorrect assertions. I'm not advocating the banning of nuclear power, just its expansion in the near future. Nukes for us and poverty for everyone else is an energy policy that is asking for conflict.

What is the alternative nuclear policy? Nukes-for-all? And just who is being cavalier? If this thread is a debate over how best to power a diesel transportation sector, then who has been more strident in their claims without backing themselves up with references? ...then why has biodiesel use been more than doubling each year for the past 5 years, and why is the largest diesel market in the world focusing on biodiesel instead of DME? Does DME bring other positive effects into the system, such as the cleanup of agricultural runoff? These are crucial questions you should look into.

"To me, this biodiesel business sounds like the optimistic posturing of 1950's nuclear engineers whose administrators claimed a nirvana was around the corner."

Ironic. But that's what usually happens with projection.

Given the political and environmental concerns, I believe the great majority of energy production should be renewable. Biofuel will be a large part of that, and of that class of fuels biodiesel is shaping up to be the most productive component.

If you are expecting global droughts to impact fuel availability (unlikely, esp. given that much of the production will be done with sea water), then we would have much worse to worry about than fuel for transportation.

Yes, NIMBY rules. It is probably only half-wrong on average (these local instincts should not be turned into a code for "dumb"). Wind power makes great strides in the U.S., despite what happened with Cape Wind, while nuclear energy is still stagnant. Lastly, we should remember that GW Bush is a force for the concentration of power, and that is why I believe he is a friend to the nuclear energy industry in this country.
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  -You compare, you decide jmcgowanjm  Jan-30-04 08:41 AM   #0 
  - We're in big trouble. Solar power is free. Wind power is free.  FloridaPat   Jan-30-04 08:50 AM   #1 
  - Legalize hemp!  Zhade   Feb-28-04 08:18 PM   #131 
  - Maybe is not good enough  mad_as_hell   Jan-30-04 10:07 AM   #2 
  - You can find all of Simmons' remarks from Uppsala here  jmcgowanjm   Jan-30-04 02:30 PM   #3 
  - Revealing Statements from a Bush Insider  jmcgowanjm   Jan-31-04 09:25 AM   #11 
  - And the ASPO Newsletter #38 February 2004 Kuwait  jmcgowanjm   Jan-30-04 02:33 PM   #4 
  - Think logically  SixShooter   Jan-30-04 06:25 PM   #5 
  - Wind and solar are stop-gap solutions at best  NickB79   Jan-31-04 12:07 AM   #6 
  - Nuclear...too cheap to meter  BeFree   Jan-31-04 01:23 AM   #7 
  - So we're screwed then?  NickB79   Jan-31-04 03:01 AM   #8 
  - Yeah, we're gonna be hurting  BeFree   Jan-31-04 02:48 PM   #13 
     - Actually, I hate nukes  NickB79   Feb-03-04 02:38 AM   #32 
     - The last I knew  grower   Feb-05-04 04:23 PM   #49 
  - You haven't been reading very much, have you?  NNadir   Jan-31-04 07:35 AM   #9 
  - there's going to be a lag time,NNadir. As DU's NuclearCzar  jmcgowanjm   Jan-31-04 09:37 AM   #12 
  - "Nuclear Czar?" How about DU Nuclear Educator? I'll take that title.  NNadir   Jan-31-04 03:14 PM   #15 
     - OK, you will correct me here. Can each nuke warhead be a powerplant?  jmcgowanjm   Jan-31-04 07:51 PM   #18 
     - I'm not sure I understand the question about the warhead.  NNadir   Jan-31-04 09:14 PM   #20 
        - thanx NNadir, what I needed. So warheads are not good enough  jmcgowanjm   Feb-01-04 09:58 AM   #25 
           - Nuclear power already produces 20% of our electricity.  NNadir   Feb-01-04 03:03 PM   #28 
              - If you significantly increase the U.S. share of nuclear power  cprise   Feb-10-04 06:20 PM   #60 
                 - There are 29 countries operating nuclear power plants, including Mexico.  NNadir   Feb-14-04 01:32 PM   #69 
                    - Nuke weapons are proliferating nonetheless  cprise   Feb-17-04 02:29 AM   #71 
                       - Really? How many new nuclear powers were there in the last 2 decades  NNadir   Feb-17-04 03:47 AM   #72 
                          - 'There Is No Alternative'  cprise   Feb-17-04 01:44 PM   #74 
                             - Well I would feel better about if these alledged alternatives  NNadir   Feb-17-04 02:42 PM   #75 
                                - TINA = A famous Thatcher-ism  cprise   Feb-17-04 10:26 PM   #76 
                                   - Wind is cheaper in some places, until you have to store the energy.  NNadir   Feb-19-04 04:17 AM   #84 
     - ok, since you've volunteered to be our nuclear educator  treepig   Feb-01-04 11:10 AM   #26 
        - The Candu Reactor  NNadir   Feb-01-04 02:48 PM   #27 
           - thank you muchly!!  treepig   Feb-02-04 09:57 AM   #29 
           - Your welcome.  NNadir   Feb-03-04 09:29 AM   #36 
              - recently, i've been saving interesting posts (like yours) to WORD files  treepig   Feb-04-04 07:15 AM   #42 
                 - Bernard L. Cohen  NNadir   Feb-08-04 01:30 PM   #51 
                    - so, when the yucca mountain repository is open  treepig   Feb-10-04 08:55 AM   #54 
                       - Actually, I'm kind of hoping Yucca Mountain doesn't open or if it does  NNadir   Feb-10-04 11:08 AM   #55 
                          - Pardon me, but having hot fuel rods sitting 1/2 mi from L. Erie is bad  SpikeTrees   Feb-12-04 12:48 PM   #65 
                          - This is a "could happen" argument as opposed to an "is happening" argument  NNadir   Feb-12-04 01:57 PM   #66 
                             - When are you coming to pick it up?  SpikeTrees   Feb-12-04 04:12 PM   #67 
                                - Someone will pick it up. What about the Mercury in my soil?  NNadir   Feb-13-04 07:59 AM   #68 
                                - French Public's Opposition to Nuclear Waste Repositories  Bdog   Feb-28-04 09:34 AM   #126 
                                - Finding a location for a dump is one of the biggest hurdles.  Bdog   Feb-28-04 09:47 AM   #127 
                          - Do you have any supporting data to back up your claims?  Bdog   Feb-28-04 09:49 AM   #128 
                             - The subject of nuclear transmutation has been exhaustively covered.  NNadir   Feb-29-04 01:55 PM   #133 
           - Ahead of the curve-3 articles here  jmcgowanjm   Feb-03-04 06:48 AM   #33 
              - I think we're going to have to spend many many many more billions  NNadir   Feb-03-04 09:22 AM   #35 
                 - but that's just it NNadir, Canda's balking on $11B  jmcgowanjm   Feb-04-04 07:31 AM   #44 
  - Been reading a little at a time, for a lot of years  BeFree   Jan-31-04 03:11 PM   #14 
     - Really. solar Energy is free? Too cheap to meter?  NNadir   Jan-31-04 03:38 PM   #16 
        - I've rethunk it plenty of times.  BeFree   Jan-31-04 04:17 PM   #17 
           - I'm sure you are impossible to convince of truth, sir.  NNadir   Jan-31-04 08:35 PM   #19 
              - Hey Nuke Czar  BeFree   Jan-31-04 09:15 PM   #21 
              - Hey BeFree  NNadir   Jan-31-04 11:07 PM   #22 
                 - See ya, nuke czar  BeFree   Jan-31-04 11:15 PM   #23 
                    - Bye BeFree  NNadir   Feb-01-04 08:19 AM   #24 
              - Solar and Wind are technologies that generate far more power  cprise   Feb-04-04 06:41 PM   #45 
                 - I support solar energy, but you're missing data here.  NNadir   Feb-04-04 08:16 PM   #46 
                    - The sun is on the menu  cprise   Feb-05-04 01:02 AM   #47 
                       - How is that people in Bangladesh can afford PV when people in the US  NNadir   Feb-06-04 11:12 PM   #50 
                          - Why should a home owner store solar power when there is no need to?  Bdog   Feb-27-04 10:08 AM   #119 
                             - I'm just guessing here, but could it involve burning coal at night?  NNadir   Feb-27-04 12:54 PM   #121 
                                - Your sillyWho says renew-ables have to replace fossil fuel 100%?  Bdog   Feb-27-04 02:51 PM   #122 
                                   - People in undeveloped rural areas often have zero electricity  cprise   Feb-27-04 03:38 PM   #123 
                                      - Yes, I agree.  Bdog   Feb-27-04 04:08 PM   #124 
  - Nuclear power does NOT address the problem of peak oil  happyslug   Feb-25-04 12:58 PM   #97 
  - Efficiency standards and conservation could help meet that 50% shortfall  SpikeTrees   Jan-31-04 08:58 AM   #10 
  - Exactly  BeFree   Feb-02-04 12:19 PM   #30 
     - Yes, this is a good way to ease into the crunch  NickB79   Feb-03-04 02:08 AM   #31 
        - Sooner or later  BeFree   Feb-03-04 09:18 AM   #34 
           - i'd be much obliged if you'd point me in the direction of free solar energ  treepig   Feb-03-04 09:35 AM   #37 
              - Let me know if it's delivered.  NNadir   Feb-03-04 10:04 AM   #38 
              - The source is free  BeFree   Feb-03-04 11:13 PM   #39 
                 - So you have these free solar converters/and storage systems available?  NNadir   Feb-04-04 07:12 AM   #41 
                 - Why should a home owner store solar power when there is no need to?  Bdog   Feb-27-04 10:49 AM   #120 
                 - there was a good thread on the costs of installing a solar energy  treepig   Feb-04-04 07:26 AM   #43 
  - Biodiesel alone could meet upto 1/3 of today's demand  cprise   Feb-04-04 12:53 AM   #40 
     - could you link these energy sources please cprise?  jmcgowanjm   Feb-05-04 09:44 AM   #48 
        - Thank you SO much for advancing this topic.  TennesseeWalker   Feb-08-04 02:36 PM   #52 
        - Here are a couple  cprise   Feb-09-04 01:05 PM   #53 
           - I am stunned...  hunter   Feb-10-04 12:09 PM   #56 
              - This is an idea proposed in New Hampshire by people who haven't a clue  NNadir   Feb-10-04 04:14 PM   #57 
              - Proposed by Californians and Floridians, apparently...  cprise   Feb-10-04 06:05 PM   #59 
              - Nobody cares about energy provincialism until it's in their backyard.  NNadir   Feb-10-04 06:56 PM   #62 
                 - Yep, nuclear reactors near metro areas are a great sell to the NIMBY crowd  cprise   Feb-17-04 02:20 AM   #70 
                    - Actually the folks around here at Oyster Creek were worried the reactor  NNadir   Feb-17-04 04:33 AM   #73 
                       - smelly plants?  Mike Briggs   Feb-18-04 07:49 AM   #78 
                          - I have not said, "panacea." I have used the words "risk minimized"  NNadir   Feb-18-04 01:25 PM   #80 
                             - There is no argument for an exclusively bio-fuel economy  cprise   Feb-18-04 07:15 PM   #81 
                             - I sympathize with you.  NNadir   Feb-18-04 08:30 PM   #82 
                                - India and China's problems stem from overpopulation  cprise   Feb-19-04 12:26 AM   #83 
                                   - Um, the planet has energy problems owing to overpopulation.  NNadir   Feb-19-04 04:59 AM   #85 
                                      - Enter subject here  Mike Briggs   Feb-19-04 09:27 AM   #87 
                                      - Um, the reaction in Fischer Tropsch syntheses need not use natural gas.  NNadir   Feb-20-04 06:57 PM   #90 
                                         - Subject  Mike Briggs   Feb-25-04 10:01 AM   #94 
                                         - OK  NNadir   Feb-26-04 10:16 PM   #118 
                                         - Great thought provoking post  JetCityLiberal   Feb-29-04 01:09 AM   #132 
                                      - Maybe you should get used to the smog  cprise   Feb-19-04 11:43 PM   #88 
                                         - According to this Abstract from Environmental Science Technology  NNadir   Feb-20-04 06:41 PM   #89 
                                            - emissions  Mike Briggs   Feb-25-04 10:22 AM   #95 
                                            - And I can provide many showing it increases NOx  NNadir   Feb-25-04 03:58 PM   #101 
                                            - New Biodiesel Blend Reduces Particulates and NOx  Bdog   Feb-25-04 10:58 PM   #102 
                                            - DOE Biodiesel Emissions Testing Results  Bdog   Feb-25-04 11:24 PM   #103 
                                            - The reference to cancer is outlandish  cprise   Feb-26-04 12:39 AM   #104 
                                            - There is a huge difference between refereed journals and promotional  NNadir   Feb-26-04 02:24 PM   #113 
                                            - You're welcome to focus on the EPA and Harvard studies  cprise   Feb-27-04 04:21 PM   #125 
                             - erg  Mike Briggs   Feb-19-04 08:57 AM   #86 
                                - Missed your reply.  NNadir   Feb-21-04 12:15 PM   #92 
                                   - re: erg, etc.  Mike Briggs   Feb-25-04 09:52 AM   #93 
                                      - I think you're wiggling still.  NNadir   Feb-25-04 01:01 PM   #98 
                                         - I take the threat of Al Queda seriously  cprise   Feb-26-04 01:19 AM   #105 
                                         - Well, I think we're past the point of reason here.  NNadir   Feb-26-04 08:35 AM   #108 
                                         - insurance companies will not touch the nuclear power industry  Bdog   Feb-26-04 05:56 AM   #107 
                                            - Insurance companies, the source of all wisdom and balance.  NNadir   Feb-26-04 08:49 AM   #109 
                                               - Your post is meaningless and silly  Bdog   Feb-26-04 05:32 PM   #116 
                                               - To each his own. I rather think I was responding in kind.  NNadir   Feb-26-04 09:25 PM   #117 
              - Clueless in New Hampshire?  Mike Briggs   Feb-18-04 07:35 AM   #77 
                 - perhaps you could clarify?  treepig   Feb-18-04 08:23 AM   #79 
                 - i'm still awaiting the incorporation of land costs into your model  treepig   Feb-21-04 08:33 AM   #91 
                    - algae  Mike Briggs   Feb-25-04 10:25 AM   #96 
                       - ok, thanks for the reply and good luck!  treepig   Feb-25-04 02:13 PM   #100 
                          - Thanks. Here is some explanation:  cprise   Feb-26-04 03:01 AM   #106 
              - Pumping water into ponds  cprise   Feb-10-04 05:15 PM   #58 
              - Here you go, a pilot project...  hunter   Feb-10-04 06:25 PM   #61 
                 - Um, the Owens lake has no water in it. n/t  NNadir   Feb-10-04 07:10 PM   #63 
                    - It used to have water...  hunter   Feb-10-04 10:27 PM   #64 
              - Actually... it uses the Sonora mostly as an example and start up  mouse7   May-19-04 07:35 PM   #138 
  - Let energy costs reflect their true production costs.  Bdog   Feb-25-04 01:16 PM   #99 
  - getting back to the original topic  treepig   Feb-26-04 08:58 AM   #110 
  - Plenty of spent oil fields to check, probably a local phenomena  Bdog   Feb-26-04 10:57 AM   #111 
  - ah yes, the old slant drilling scheme  treepig   Feb-26-04 01:14 PM   #112 
  - Oil Window  fedsron2us   Feb-26-04 04:17 PM   #114 
  - Biofuels from Switchgrass: Greener Energy Pastures  Bdog   Feb-26-04 04:56 PM   #115 
  - 270,000 flex-fuel "green" vehicles expected to be sold in Brazil  Bdog   Feb-28-04 01:49 PM   #129 
  - Orasco, S.P. Operating a distillery producing FUEL-ETHANOL  Bdog   Feb-28-04 02:05 PM   #130 
  - free translation!  historian   Mar-01-04 02:23 PM   #136 
     - Its a good thing they quit subsidiesing a failed system  Bdog   Mar-01-04 11:08 PM   #137 
  - Yes  gamemasterG   Mar-01-04 11:48 AM   #134 
  - not at all  historian   Mar-01-04 02:18 PM   #135 

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