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Reply #80: What I've always found interesting about that linkage [View All]

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. What I've always found interesting about that linkage
Out of the 31 countries with civilian nuclear power programs, only 7 have developed nuclear weapons. Five of those are NPT signatories (US, UK, Russia, France and China), while two (India and Pakistan) are not. Two nations (Israel and NK) have nuclear weapons, but no civilian nuclear program. I'm not sure what to make of this except that it doesn't seem as simple as it is in most people's minds (i.e. power reactors -->> bombs).

The standard linkage argument looks to me a lot like the "gateway drug" argument applied to marijuana vis a vis heroin use, and suffers from the same shortcomings. We can deal with the spread of nuclear weapons through diplomacy and direct action without impeding the use of nuclear power by the nations who just want electricity.
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  -State of emergency declared at Japan nuclear plant FBaggins  Mar-11-11 05:36 AM   #0 
  - Japan invokes special law for nuclear emergencies  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 06:40 AM   #1 
  - 2800 residents being evacuated  GliderGuider   Mar-11-11 07:29 AM   #2 
  - That reported smoke from reactor building at Onagawa  AtheistCrusader   Mar-11-11 07:00 PM   #56 
  - Do you honestly believe that the nuke industry will tell us the truth  madokie   Mar-11-11 07:31 AM   #3 
  - They don't have to  Dogmudgeon   Mar-11-11 07:43 AM   #4 
  - Yes, Chernobyl was such an open book it only took 35 years...  kristopher   Mar-11-11 07:56 AM   #5 
     - But they don't want to talk about Chernobyl  madokie   Mar-11-11 08:03 AM   #6 
     - Sure, yeah a reactor with NO CONTAINMENT, disabled safety systems  AtheistCrusader   Mar-11-11 07:01 PM   #57 
        - They're both reactors  FBaggins   Mar-12-11 02:08 PM   #81 
           - See what happening in Japan right now  madokie   Mar-13-11 08:57 AM   #84 
     - Right... because Japan and the old Soviet Union are really the same thing.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 09:01 AM   #9 
        - The common denominator here is THE NUKE INDUSTRY as a whole  madokie   Mar-11-11 09:07 AM   #11 
           - There is no such animal.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 09:10 AM   #13 
           - No irrational paranoia here big boy  madokie   Mar-11-11 12:22 PM   #23 
              - You're an "easy guy to find"?  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 12:52 PM   #30 
                 - We're talking about the lack of honesty coming from the nuclear industry as a whole  madokie   Mar-11-11 02:19 PM   #44 
                    - There is no 'nuclear industry as a whole'.  AtheistCrusader   Mar-11-11 07:03 PM   #58 
                       - The easy sale right now would be the Westinghouse AP1000s  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 08:31 PM   #59 
                          - I hate to be making light of any aspect of this situation, but yep. Exactly right.  AtheistCrusader   Mar-11-11 09:37 PM   #60 
           - The academic term is "Iron Triangle"...(link)  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 01:05 PM   #34 
              - That's not actually the normal use for "iron triangle"  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 01:28 PM   #35 
                 - Not normal *within* the nuclear industry perhaps  kristopher   Mar-11-11 01:44 PM   #40 
                 - Nope. Everywhere but your imagination.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 01:54 PM   #43 
                 - Perhaps you should learn to read.  kristopher   Mar-11-11 03:10 PM   #47 
                 - You're going to try to pretend that you weren't disagreeing?  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 03:56 PM   #48 
                    - Like I said, perhaps you should learn to read.  kristopher   Mar-11-11 04:13 PM   #49 
                       - You might try taking your own advice. There were TWO errors that I corrected in his post.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 05:21 PM   #52 
                 - yeah and Ted Lowi first wrote about it....  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:46 PM   #67 
                 - Thanks...  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:18 PM   #65 
                 - The canonical example of an "Iron Triangle" is the defense industry.  GliderGuider   Mar-11-11 02:26 PM   #45 
                 - Link between nuclear power and nuclear weapons  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:33 PM   #66 
                    - What I've always found interesting about that linkage  GliderGuider   Mar-12-11 01:58 PM   #80 
                 - Wow just keep your blinders on then....  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:18 PM   #64 
  - Do you honestly believe that the "nuke insustry" is the only one with the ability to tell?  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 08:59 AM   #8 
     - Not at all  madokie   Mar-11-11 09:02 AM   #10 
     - You miss out that your paranoia is impacting your impression of reality.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 09:08 AM   #12 
        - We still don't know the whole of it concerning TMI, Davis-Besse  madokie   Mar-11-11 12:25 PM   #24 
           - And how would I differentiate that from paranoia?  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 01:00 PM   #32 
           - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-11-11 01:31 PM   #36 
           - That entire attack sounds like something straight from "the nuclear industry"  kristopher   Mar-11-11 04:24 PM   #50 
              - Lots of things sound like that to you.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 06:06 PM   #53 
           - We know the truth behind TMI quite well...  PamW   Mar-12-11 01:24 PM   #78 
              - From the officials we got a white wash and not much more  madokie   Mar-12-11 05:18 PM   #83 
     - Yes as the truth of Hanford are still not fully known.  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 09:51 AM   #16 
        - You seem to misunderstand some issues of scale here.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 10:14 AM   #18 
           - Your point is true-Risk model v. precautionary principle.  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 11:05 AM   #20 
              - 25,000 deaths annually in the US from burning coal, not one from nuclear.  wtmusic   Mar-11-11 11:16 AM   #21 
              - Coal industry keep blue collar employed is the story  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 12:29 PM   #25 
                 - Apparently there is no coal industy, you are just being paranoid.  kristopher   Mar-11-11 01:35 PM   #37 
                 - Not very good ones considering  Confusious   Mar-11-11 04:25 PM   #51 
                    - Hemp oil can replace all uses of petroleum  abqmufc   Mar-12-11 01:38 AM   #69 
                       - Is hemp legal in the US?  Confusious   Mar-12-11 03:06 AM   #70 
                          - narrow minded much?  abqmufc   Mar-12-11 04:26 AM   #74 
                             - Want to join me on a unicorn and fairy hunt?  Confusious   Mar-12-11 05:00 AM   #75 
                                - yep let's go  abqmufc   Mar-12-11 05:11 AM   #76 
              - Humans violate the PP all the time. We believe we can out-think Mother Nature.  GliderGuider   Mar-11-11 11:32 AM   #22 
  - Update 1  jpak   Mar-11-11 08:22 AM   #7 
  - Regardless of whether you support nuke energy or not...  Javaman   Mar-11-11 09:16 AM   #14 
     - Yep. Brave whether there's a real danger or not.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 09:39 AM   #15 
     - +1  One_Life_To_Give   Mar-11-11 01:50 PM   #42 
  - Fukushima reactor is a plutothermal (MOX) facility  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 10:11 AM   #17 
  - Not really a big deal  PamW   Mar-12-11 01:30 PM   #79 
     - No doubt.  FBaggins   Mar-12-11 02:39 PM   #82 
  - Reportedly under control now.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 10:20 AM   #19 
  - Neither CNN nor MSNBC have stated...what source? 10:15 AM MST  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 12:39 PM   #27 
     - Sorry I only read that some power had been restored  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 12:57 PM   #31 
     - More.  FBaggins   Mar-11-11 02:55 PM   #46 
  - TEPCO says pressure rises inside nuclear reactor -  jpak   Mar-11-11 12:38 PM   #26 
  - "release pressure"= release radioactive materials in the air.  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 12:41 PM   # 
  - What do you think the containment building is for? nt  Confusious   Mar-11-11 01:41 PM   #39 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-11-11 01:45 PM   #41 
     - Yeah and they said that about Hanford....N/T yourself.  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:03 PM   #62 
     - I think you should blame the United States Government for that  Confusious   Mar-12-11 03:13 AM   #72 
     - How's the building gone to address cooling ponds?????  abqmufc   Mar-11-11 10:55 PM   #68 
        - What???  Confusious   Mar-12-11 03:08 AM   #71 
           - Sure, here you are (article)  abqmufc   Mar-12-11 08:06 AM   #77 
  - CNN reports radioactive vapor to be released in response to pressure build up  jpak   Mar-11-11 12:41 PM   #28 
     - Two reactors have problems with cooling systems  jpak   Mar-11-11 12:43 PM   #29 
  - Well, well, well...  Terry in Austin   Mar-11-11 01:02 PM   #33 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-11-11 01:40 PM   #38 
  - This was posted on reddit.com by a nuclear engineer  Merchant Marine   Mar-11-11 06:37 PM   #54 
  - Radiation 1000 times normal at one Japan nuke plant; pressure release ordered  jpak   Mar-11-11 06:38 PM   #55 
     - Let's do the time warp agaaaaaain  AtheistCrusader   Mar-11-11 09:38 PM   #61 
     - What a deceptive post title  Nederland   Mar-11-11 10:10 PM   #63 
        - Fear  Confusious   Mar-12-11 03:16 AM   #73 
 

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