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Reply #36: Since the stakeholders for nuclear and coal are virtually identical [View All]

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Since the stakeholders for nuclear and coal are virtually identical
Edited on Sat Feb-26-11 03:56 PM by kristopher
You really don't have a leg to stand on. That is why you NEVER discuss the actual cost/benefits of nuclear power and instead rely on trying to frame yourself as a renewable supporter who endorses nuclear. The problem with that is really simple - the ONLY route to logically supporting nuclear power is to make false claims regarding both renewables and nuclear. You have to claim that
1) renewables cannot do the job and
2) that nuclear is not associated with the very real ills that plague it (cost, safety, time to construct, proliferation and wastes)

Neither of those positions can be supported.

You say you only want 4gen nuclear, yet still never miss a chance to defend the present industry; so, you are caught in a classic dilemma. As I said, your task seems to be defending and promoting the nuclear industry by linking it with renewables. Unfortunately, that cannot be done without falsely attacking renewables or falsely arguing for nuclear. No matter how many internet versions of you come here to try and accomplish the goal, they are all going to face the same problem you have - your position is indefensible.
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  -Union of Concerned Scientists: Nuke Subsidies Exceed Value of Electricity Produced kristopher  Feb-24-11 11:23 AM   #0 
  - recommend  xchrom   Feb-24-11 11:24 AM   #1 
  - K&R  FiveGoodMen   Feb-24-11 11:29 AM   #2 
  - I'm sure glad renewables are all built on private land with private money!  XemaSab   Feb-24-11 12:25 PM   #3 
  - Subsidies are supposed to be temporary  kristopher   Feb-24-11 12:43 PM   #4 
     - .  XemaSab   Feb-24-11 01:01 PM   #5 
     - Is "growing wheat" an emerging technology?  jberryhill   Feb-24-11 02:57 PM   #6 
        - What's your point?  kristopher   Feb-24-11 04:47 PM   #7 
  - Hah! Union of Concerned Scientists lost all credibility when the went anti-electric cars  txlibdem   Feb-24-11 05:11 PM   #8 
  - Similarities in viewpoints?  kristopher   Feb-24-11 05:42 PM   #9 
     - Hybrid vehicles do not equal electric vehicles -- hybrids NEED oil  txlibdem   Feb-24-11 05:47 PM   #10 
        - You just hate them because they are a strong voice against nuclear power.  kristopher   Feb-24-11 05:51 PM   #11 
           - Your words ring hollow  txlibdem   Feb-24-11 06:06 PM   #12 
           - Typical tactic from a nuclear supporter.  kristopher   Feb-24-11 06:13 PM   #13 
              - Long, boring post that has no bearing on the topic -- tactic?  txlibdem   Feb-25-11 06:44 AM   #16 
                 - The attacks on UCS are part of the Republican War on Science. nt  bananas   Mar-01-11 09:43 AM   #55 
                    - +1  kristopher   Mar-05-11 03:01 PM   #63 
           - Where have you been? txlibdem has been talking up solar and wind for awhile.  joshcryer   Feb-25-11 10:11 PM   #21 
              - A hearty thank you  txlibdem   Feb-25-11 11:03 PM   #23 
                 - Though we may disagree on some of the--ahem--PARTICULARS  XemaSab   Feb-25-11 11:57 PM   #25 
                 - This book was written before...  kristopher   Feb-26-11 12:24 AM   #26 
                    - Stopping a nuclear power plant causes more coal plants: "That is true"  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 06:42 AM   #28 
                    - You are merely following the nuclear industry playbook...  kristopher   Feb-26-11 02:45 PM   #30 
                       - You are merely following the coal industry playbook  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 03:39 PM   #33 
                          - Since the stakeholders for nuclear and coal are virtually identical  kristopher   Feb-26-11 03:51 PM   #36 
                             - You've written that a dozen times. Isn't it time you provided even a shred of proof?  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 04:42 PM   #38 
                                - There is one reason to support nuclear  kristopher   Feb-26-11 05:24 PM   #43 
                                   - With the SMR, small to medium-sized reactors that are mass produced that is the truth  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 05:37 PM   #44 
                                      - WE DO NOT HAVE SMALL MODULAR REACTORS  kristopher   Feb-26-11 05:50 PM   #46 
                                         - Westinghouse is making them, will start as soon as NRC approval  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 09:55 PM   #49 
                                            - No applications for SMRs have been made to the NRC  kristopher   Mar-05-11 01:14 PM   #61 
                    - I just don't grok where you're coming from  XemaSab   Feb-26-11 10:12 PM   #50 
                       - Because your statements are wrong.  kristopher   Mar-05-11 01:12 PM   #60 
                       - You are CORRECT, of course...  PamW   Mar-06-11 07:26 PM   #68 
                          - No she isn't  kristopher   Mar-07-11 12:16 PM   #70 
                             - Usual flotsam from the usual source  PamW   Mar-07-11 11:11 PM   #72 
                                - I'm familiar with the report, and your claims are false.  kristopher   Mar-08-11 10:27 AM   #73 
                                   - Oh for Pete's sake....  PamW   Mar-08-11 09:13 PM   #74 
                                      - You are free to provide a proper citation and to provide precise quotes from the text  kristopher   Mar-08-11 09:36 PM   #75 
  - My Heart Burns  Fledermaus   Feb-24-11 06:51 PM   #14 
  - Apparently, none of the "scientists" can do math.  NNadir   Feb-24-11 11:32 PM   #15 
  - UCS can and do "do math" -- the math of how much they are being paid to support coal and fossil fuel  txlibdem   Feb-25-11 06:53 AM   #17 
     - I respectfully disagree. The "scientists" can't do math.  NNadir   Feb-25-11 09:31 PM   #19 
     - The amount is cumulative and distributed.  kristopher   Feb-25-11 09:39 PM   #20 
        - Oooh. Pretty chart. That will distract us from the facts and the dollar values involved.  txlibdem   Feb-25-11 11:07 PM   #24 
        - I already saw the dumb graph. It has nothing to do with reality.  NNadir   Feb-26-11 01:47 AM   #27 
           - All your claims show is that you are the one that is, how do you like to put it...?  kristopher   Feb-26-11 02:28 PM   #29 
              - Um, um, um...  NNadir   Feb-26-11 03:25 PM   #31 
                 - Um, um, um yourself...  kristopher   Feb-26-11 03:32 PM   #32 
                    - Facts are not to be found in that UCS hit piece  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 03:47 PM   #35 
                       - So the entrenched energy industries behind the nuclear industry are to be trusted  kristopher   Feb-26-11 03:54 PM   #37 
                          - Here's a hint: google the term Astroturf and you'll have your answer  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 04:48 PM   #39 
                             - Everyone but the nuclear industry disagrees with you.  kristopher   Feb-26-11 05:20 PM   #41 
                                - Making stuff up again?  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 05:45 PM   #45 
                                   - You are the one making the claim, you prove it.  kristopher   Feb-26-11 05:56 PM   #47 
                                      - You are being purposefully obtuse  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 10:17 PM   #51 
     - Hansen calls them the Union of Concerned Lobbiests.  joshcryer   Feb-25-11 10:13 PM   #22 
        - The ARE "lobbiests" (known by literates as lobbyists).  kristopher   Feb-26-11 03:40 PM   #34 
           - They bring the best science?  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 04:51 PM   #40 
           - And your proof of that is...  kristopher   Feb-26-11 05:23 PM   #42 
              - So you're pitting "our" paid spokesperson against the fossil fuels' paid spokesmodel?  txlibdem   Feb-26-11 09:35 PM   #48 
           - Yes, the paper in question wasn't even authored by a scientist. Thus Hansen's criticism.  joshcryer   Mar-01-11 05:13 AM   #53 
              - Economics is considered a social science, so it was authored by a scientist.  bananas   Mar-01-11 09:41 AM   #54 
                 - Economics is the most subjective bullshit in all fields of study.  joshcryer   Mar-05-11 09:00 PM   #66 
  - Areas where nuclear industry recieved quanifiable subsidies  kristopher   Feb-25-11 08:03 PM   #18 
  - Same old pack of lies from the UCS  PamW   Feb-28-11 10:43 PM   #52 
  - LOL - "Those scientists aren't scientists!!!"  bananas   Mar-01-11 11:27 AM   #56 
     - LOL to the person trying to rofl at the truth - truth hurts?  txlibdem   Mar-05-11 11:10 AM   #59 
  - Kick for the grumpy pooch.  kristopher   Mar-04-11 11:50 PM   #57 
  - It's wrong to kick your own OP, especially a weeks-old dead one  txlibdem   Mar-05-11 11:05 AM   #58 
     - UCS is one of the best NGOs out there.  kristopher   Mar-05-11 01:16 PM   #62 
  - It is interesting and informative that the totality of criticism directed at the OP  kristopher   Mar-05-11 03:45 PM   #64 
  - Another paper by Koplow (authored OP study) on fossil fuel subsidies and GHG emissions  kristopher   Mar-05-11 05:27 PM   #65 
  - 2007 DOE numbers  Confusious   Mar-06-11 01:24 AM   #67 
  - That is an obvious exercise in cherry-picking on behalf of a rightwing industry  kristopher   Mar-07-11 11:23 AM   #69 
     - Those were 2007 numbers, not 1957 to 1997.  Confusious   Mar-07-11 12:48 PM   #71 
  - Kick.  kristopher   Apr-01-11 08:47 PM   #76 

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