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Reply #45: I found something odd in an article on English wind turbines. [View All]

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. I found something odd in an article on English wind turbines.
Edited on Wed Oct-06-10 02:32 PM by GliderGuider
I was looking for an article that talked about project delays and cost overruns in wind projects, to demonstrate that such issues are not unique to nuclear plants. I found a promising article from the UK: Flaw hits hundreds of EU offshore wind turbines.

As I was reading it, though, I found a startling statistic in the last paragraph.

In an attempt to shift from fossil fuels to renewable energy, Britain aims to install 32 gigawatts of offshore wind capacity by 2020 at a cost of a hundred billion pounds.

Wait, what? Seriously, that's 5,000 USD per KW. Of capacity. Given a 30% capacity factor (these are offshore, so I'll cut them some slack), that's $16,667 per KWe. The worst capital cost estimates I've seen for nuclear power are half that, and less breathless claims are a third of that or less.

:wtf:
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  -Another example of how the CANDU can't kristopher  Oct-04-10 09:08 AM   #0 
  - Rec to no avail  madokie   Oct-04-10 11:56 AM   #1 
  - That's the best you can do?  Nederland   Oct-04-10 03:22 PM   #2 
  - It's typical nuclear: "2 years behind schedule and nearly $1 billion over budget"  kristopher   Oct-05-10 12:20 AM   #5 
     - Typical Nuclear in the Western World  Nederland   Oct-05-10 01:05 AM   #6 
        - I'm sure it has nothing to do with the coal and oil funded NIMBY/anti-nuclear crowd.  TheWraith   Oct-05-10 01:25 AM   #7 
        - The economic stakeholders for coal and nuclear are nearly identical  kristopher   Oct-05-10 02:08 PM   #11 
           - One article in the Grand Forks Herald as "proof."  TheWraith   Oct-06-10 12:04 PM   #37 
              - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Oct-06-10 12:08 PM   #39 
        - No, typical around the world.  kristopher   Oct-05-10 07:21 AM   #8 
           - Your data on Japan is outdated  Nederland   Oct-05-10 11:11 PM   #17 
  - I did not have neutron exchange with that reactor...  txlibdem   Oct-04-10 07:10 PM   #3 
  - what about 60 year old wind turbines?  DrGregory   Oct-04-10 10:56 PM   #4 
     - We need the most advanced technology we can come up with, no question  txlibdem   Oct-05-10 08:43 AM   #9 
        - Fairly good summary but a few problems are present.  kristopher   Oct-05-10 09:18 AM   #10 
           - A phase out not an abrupt cutoff in my view  txlibdem   Oct-05-10 02:15 PM   #12 
           - Be cautious of accepting the thoughts of those aligned with environmental skepticism  kristopher   Oct-05-10 03:25 PM   #13 
              - I'll concede the point on the sole purpose of Germany's Feed In Tariffs  txlibdem   Oct-05-10 10:01 PM   #14 
                 - It would BE a catastrophe. It's a very, very, very, very, very dirty form of energy, and batteries  NNadir   Oct-05-10 11:01 PM   #16 
                 - That wasn't Gore's plan, nor does the anecdote you cite mean much.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 07:20 AM   #19 
                 - Are you sure you're responding to the correct post?  txlibdem   Oct-06-10 04:10 PM   #49 
                    - You don't know what you are talking about.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 04:17 PM   #51 
                       - I may not but Al Gore sure as heck does!  txlibdem   Oct-06-10 10:15 PM   #59 
                 - As to sitting on Solar Power location, sounds like what happened in the 1970s on the locks and dams  happyslug   Oct-06-10 03:12 PM   #46 
           - Extremely high? Higher than any source? We'll chalk that up to anti-nuke math...  NNadir   Oct-05-10 10:39 PM   #15 
              - Why are you saying that California doesn't have natural gas peakers?  XemaSab   Oct-06-10 02:35 AM   #18 
              - Lack of knowledge and an ingrained inability to reason characterize your posts  kristopher   Oct-06-10 07:28 AM   #20 
              - Let's compare  txlibdem   Oct-06-10 07:40 AM   #21 
                 - The costs look pretty much the same, all right.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 07:46 AM   #22 
                 - That is a half assed, uninformed analysis based on an inaccurate bunch of crap/  kristopher   Oct-06-10 07:56 AM   #23 
                    - So are the costs of electricity from nuclear and wind not similar in your opinion?  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 08:26 AM   #24 
                       - That is typical misleading framing of the issue.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 09:33 AM   #25 
                          - No, you just disagree with this framing.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 09:57 AM   #26 
                          - Just goes to show what you don't know...  kristopher   Oct-06-10 10:31 AM   #27 
                             - That's a usage of the word "outstanding" I haven't encountered before.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 10:41 AM   #29 
                                - Your posts establish your goals very clearly.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 11:12 AM   #30 
                                   - Is it possible  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 11:15 AM   #31 
                                      - No, it isn't.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 11:46 AM   #33 
                                         - Define "BETTER"  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 12:02 PM   #36 
                                            - Cooper's paper is an independent review by a highly qualified analyst.  kristopher   Oct-06-10 12:06 PM   #38 
                                               - See the commentary on this "review" that I posted below.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 12:30 PM   #41 
                          - An OECD report from this year compares electricity costs from various sources in various countries  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 10:36 AM   #28 
                          - Trust in the nuclear industry much? Why not accept the fossil industry's view of carbon?  kristopher   Oct-06-10 11:33 AM   #32 
                             - Or the wind industry's views on wind power?  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 11:57 AM   #34 
                                - Here it is  kristopher   Oct-06-10 11:59 AM   #35 
                                   - No, that comes from a biased paper.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 12:28 PM   #40 
                                      - Seriously? You are going with anonymous comments as critique?  kristopher   Oct-06-10 12:44 PM   #42 
                                      - I found it interesting that Scientific American readers had about the same reaction as I did.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 12:51 PM   #43 
                                      - I've already replied to that point with the itemization by Severence  kristopher   Oct-06-10 04:01 PM   #48 
                                      - MIT severely underestimated the costs - read what the CEO's of Entergy, Exelon, and Constellation  bananas   Oct-07-10 04:55 AM   #62 
                                         - Let's keep our eye on the ball.  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 06:04 AM   #64 
                                            - So you've been saying we should use nuclear because it is the least expensive  kristopher   Oct-07-10 06:37 AM   #65 
                                            - Not quite  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 06:57 AM   #67 
                                            - They do not have similar cost profiles.  kristopher   Oct-07-10 07:34 AM   #70 
                                            - Here's what we're trying to accomplish  bananas   Oct-07-10 10:09 AM   #77 
                                            - Laudable goals, with which I broadly agree.  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 10:24 AM   #79 
                                      - I also find it interesting that the EIA says that wind subsidies are $0.20+ per KWh  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 01:00 PM   #44 
                                         - Yes you are missing something - a careful moment with your calculator  kristopher   Oct-06-10 04:22 PM   #52 
                                            - Ah, I slipped a decimal place. Thanks. n/t  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 04:34 PM   #55 
                                      - You went to a crackpot blog  bananas   Oct-07-10 04:22 AM   #61 
                                         - In this debate "crackpot" tends to mean "someone whose opinions I disagree with"  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 05:59 AM   #63 
                                            - Again with the false claims about what nuclear can do.  kristopher   Oct-07-10 06:45 AM   #66 
                                            - If repeated beatings with that Jacobson C&P haven't changed my mind by now  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 07:02 AM   #68 
                                               - Another piece of crap bit of logic  kristopher   Oct-07-10 07:39 AM   #71 
                                            - I have no problem with differing opinions, but some people really are crackpots.  bananas   Oct-07-10 08:02 AM   #72 
                          - 1700 nuclear power plants needed?  txlibdem   Oct-06-10 03:30 PM   #47 
                             - Holdren  kristopher   Oct-06-10 04:16 PM   #50 
                                - I did not notice we were talking about 2050 energy demand  txlibdem   Oct-06-10 10:46 PM   #60 
  - I found something odd in an article on English wind turbines.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 02:06 PM   #45 
     - You call Cooper's extensive analysis "shit", yet you think that is credible?  kristopher   Oct-06-10 04:26 PM   #53 
     - It's not pretending to be an analysis, it's just a newspaper story.  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 04:32 PM   #54 
     - More info on that wind development  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 04:53 PM   #56 
        - Are you serious? I really thought you were a bit brighter than that...  kristopher   Oct-06-10 06:03 PM   #57 
           - Where am I coming from?  GliderGuider   Oct-06-10 09:02 PM   #58 
              - Your position continues to ignore all known facts regarding energy systems  kristopher   Oct-07-10 07:24 AM   #69 
              - Again with the Jacobson?  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 08:23 AM   #73 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-07-10 08:57 AM   #74 
                    - Of course you don't agree with my position. No problem.  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 09:24 AM   #75 
                       - The basis of your position is simply fabricated - it doesn't agree with reality  kristopher   Oct-07-10 10:32 AM   #80 
                          - Even if that were true, why would it matter to you?  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 10:40 AM   #81 
                             - Which is the appropriate response.  kristopher   Oct-07-10 10:48 AM   #82 
              - What happened to peak oil?  bananas   Oct-07-10 09:58 AM   #76 
                 - I am capable of having more than one concern at a time...  GliderGuider   Oct-07-10 10:10 AM   #78 
 

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