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Reply #37: The Black Swan [View All]

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arachadillo Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Black Swan
A quick review of all the recent nuclear energy posts here shows that the nuclear energy argument sells (both the pro and con sides).

FWIW, here's one more POV...

In his article The Fourth Quadrant: A Map of the Limits of Statistics, Nassim Nicholas Taleb reminds us,

"you can't be a modern intellectual and not think probabilistically - but... let's not be suckers. The problem is much more complicated than it seems to the casual, mechanistic user who picked it up in graduate school. Statistics can fool you."

So, it looks as if we are once again a bunch of suckers, fooled by the statistics wielded by the oil companies that told us, given technological improvements, the risk of a catastrophic oil spill were virtually nil.

When you listen closely, it's the same statistical language used by proponents of nuclear energy. In effect the new push for nuclear is the new push to discover the next black swan.

The link between nuclear power and nuclear weapons can not be undone, placing it squarely in the fourth quadrant, "Complex decisions in Extremistan".

The current push for nuclear energy would result in the exponential spread of nuclear knowledge throughout the world, including nuclear weapons knowledge.

More nuclear plants also increases the possibility for human caused accidents and/or technology failures.

More nuclear plants also increases the number of both stationary terrorist targets and mobile targets (as fuel is moved for storage or recycling).

With all of those increased probabilities, it's difficult to understand how an exponential spread in nuclear energy makes the world a safer place.

There are some ugly truths in life. With respect to safe nuclear power, we may as well be hunting snarks.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."
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  -Building more nuclear to combat climate change is like cutting off your head to cure a brain tumor. kristopher  Apr-30-10 01:50 PM   #0 
  - I am as concerned as the next person about nuclear, but most  jtuck004   Apr-30-10 02:07 PM   #1 
  - Really?  Nederland   Apr-30-10 02:09 PM   #2 
  - That is one (wrong) way to look at it.  kristopher   Apr-30-10 02:26 PM   #5 
     - No  Nederland   Apr-30-10 02:31 PM   #7 
        - ROFL...  kristopher   Apr-30-10 02:47 PM   #10 
           - Ctrl-V for Victory!  Nederland   Apr-30-10 06:03 PM   #18 
  - Only fools  madokie   Apr-30-10 02:09 PM   #3 
  - There is a safe way to deal with it.  Statistical   Apr-30-10 02:24 PM   #4 
     - Ramping up nuclear power to solve climate change would require a new Yucca every 2 years.  kristopher   Apr-30-10 02:28 PM   #6 
        - Only if the goal is for nuclear energy to provide 100% of worlds energy  Statistical   Apr-30-10 02:34 PM   #8 
           - 100% would require MORE THAN a new Yucca every 8 months.  kristopher   Apr-30-10 03:02 PM   #11 
              - Well that would be 33% global nuclear power.  Statistical   Apr-30-10 03:16 PM   #12 
                 - It DOES "mean a modest growth in nuclear power is "useless"".  kristopher   Apr-30-10 03:53 PM   #13 
                    - Your premise is based on the UTTERLY BS "analysis" by Jacobson.  Statistical   Apr-30-10 03:57 PM   #14 
                       - Jacobson's analysis isn't BS. It is solid.  kristopher   Apr-30-10 04:09 PM   #15 
                          - THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS VALID ABOUT HIS "ANALYSIS"  Statistical   Apr-30-10 04:17 PM   #16 
                             - All of his inputs are supported. You just want him to use deceptive nuclear industry data instead.  kristopher   Apr-30-10 04:28 PM   #17 
                             - He cherry picks his inputs  Nederland   Apr-30-10 08:59 PM   #19 
                                - More piffle from the pronuclear antitruth squad...  kristopher   Apr-30-10 11:22 PM   #20 
                                   - You completely missed the point  Nederland   Apr-30-10 11:53 PM   #21 
                                   - No, I didn't. I addressed the point directly. It is the difference between pretend blog analysis  kristopher   May-01-10 12:02 AM   #22 
                                      - The ignorance on display is stunning  Nederland   May-01-10 02:56 AM   #23 
                                         - The future will be similar to the past.  kristopher   May-01-10 12:17 PM   #25 
                                            - You are right  Nederland   May-01-10 01:37 PM   #27 
                                               - Jacobson's work is solid analysis  kristopher   May-01-10 01:47 PM   #28 
                                               - Jacobson's work is a theory  Nederland   May-01-10 10:51 PM   #29 
                                               - More piffle from the pronuclear antitruth squad...  kristopher   May-01-10 11:05 PM   #30 
                                               - No, Jacobson's work is not "a theory." It is a review of technologies...  joshcryer   May-02-10 04:18 AM   #35 
                                               - Correct  Nederland   May-03-10 09:57 AM   #36 
                                               - Jacobson's work is not an analysis, it is a review.  joshcryer   May-02-10 04:16 AM   #34 
                                   - "reasonable expectation that future wind turbines will be better than existing technology"  joshcryer   May-02-10 04:12 AM   #33 
                             - It's not a paper, it's a review, which is distinct in the peer review process.  joshcryer   May-02-10 04:10 AM   #32 
  - Now we have anti-nukes who discuss science without knowing any composing metaphors  NNadir   Apr-30-10 02:43 PM   #9 
  - Now we have pro-nukes who discuss science without knowing any composing metaphors  jpak   May-01-10 12:58 PM   #26 
     - Ummm, if you're going to do something as childish as change around somebodies post...  eqfan592   May-03-10 06:37 PM   #43 
        - If you're going to do something as childish as criticizing someone  kristopher   May-03-10 07:29 PM   #46 
  - I've been reading about a new type of reactor, molten salt reactors  crikkett   May-01-10 12:15 PM   #24 
  - The key is if it was true  madokie   May-01-10 11:37 PM   #31 
  - The Black Swan  arachadillo   May-03-10 02:31 PM   #37 
     - Yup - good post. nt  bananas   May-03-10 03:43 PM   #38 
     - There are two types of statistics  Nederland   May-03-10 05:43 PM   #39 
     - Two types?  kristopher   May-03-10 05:50 PM   #40 
     - Ok  Nederland   May-03-10 06:09 PM   #41 
        - Do you have any legitimate questions that address the issue?  kristopher   May-03-10 06:34 PM   #42 
           - His were perfectly legitimate questions.  eqfan592   May-03-10 06:40 PM   #44 
              - No they were not legitimate questions.  kristopher   May-03-10 07:24 PM   #45 
                 - If they were not legitimate questions...  Nederland   May-03-10 11:11 PM   #49 
                    - What's the point in asking them?  kristopher   May-04-10 12:12 AM   #52 
                       - To prove you wrong  Nederland   May-04-10 12:33 AM   #53 
                          - You're dead in the water, dude. Your postion has no merit.  kristopher   May-04-10 12:48 AM   #54 
                             - Let's review  Nederland   May-04-10 10:55 AM   #57 
                                - Yes, let's review.  kristopher   May-04-10 02:47 PM   #60 
                                   - Answer the questions  Nederland   May-04-10 03:01 PM   #61 
                                      - Sure.  kristopher   May-04-10 03:19 PM   #63 
     - LOL - you just used the faulty reasoning the other poster was talking about!  bananas   May-03-10 07:57 PM   #47 
     - A simple question  Nederland   May-03-10 11:11 PM   #50 
        - A better simpler question.  kristopher   May-04-10 12:50 AM   #55 
        - The Black Swan stuff really went over your head, didn't it?  bananas   May-04-10 04:50 AM   #56 
           - Nope  Nederland   May-04-10 10:57 AM   #58 
     - Apparently, you didn't read the links in the post you responded to  bananas   May-03-10 08:32 PM   #48 
     - The payoffs of nuclear power  Nederland   May-03-10 11:20 PM   #51 
        - annually eliminates billions of tons of CO2, 100 M tons of coal ash, acid rain...  BrightKnight   May-06-10 01:02 PM   #65 
     - re: two types of statistics  arachadillo   May-04-10 02:40 PM   #59 
        - A fair criticism  Nederland   May-04-10 03:09 PM   #62 
     - Al Qaeda’s Nuclear Plant  arachadillo   May-06-10 11:02 AM   #64 
 

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