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Reply #64: And when the West Antarctic Ice Shelf goes... [View All]

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 11:11 AM
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64. And when the West Antarctic Ice Shelf goes...
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  -Oceans rise faster than expected as climate change exceeds grimmest models Louisiana1976  Nov-23-09 10:07 AM   #0 
  - I guess the Oceans didn't get the "climate change is a hoax" memo  ixion   Nov-23-09 10:10 AM   #1 
  - In geologic time, its a fairly recent memo, and oceans (frankly) are not very quick on the uptake  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 10:56 AM   #2 
  - Exponential increase. Not to mention the addition of modernization of the remiander of the world.  Gregorian   Nov-23-09 11:10 AM   #3 
  - Even population stablization doesn't fix it, we need a concerted effort to go to zero emissions.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 04:52 PM   #4 
     - You know, even if we went to zero emissions tomorrow, thats still true  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 05:55 PM   #7 
     - If we stopped tomorrow we might be OK, but since ice melt is a feedback loop....  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 06:07 PM   #8 
     - I guess screwed is a relative term  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 06:09 PM   #9 
        - I plan to live a really longtime so perhaps "we" does include me.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 06:11 PM   #10 
     - What we need is negative emissions  Dead_Parrot   Nov-23-09 06:40 PM   #11 
        - Which brings us back to GeoEngineering  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 06:47 PM   #13 
        - I was thinking of a more direct approach.  Dead_Parrot   Nov-23-09 07:39 PM   #15 
           - If you tax carbon it could pay for it 1:1. Make the tax the cost to remove it.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 08:58 PM   #17 
           - Doesn't need to be zero-emission, though  Dead_Parrot   Nov-23-09 09:14 PM   #19 
           - Who says it needs to be revenue neutral?  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 10:27 PM   #23 
              - Problem is...  Dead_Parrot   Nov-23-09 10:31 PM   #25 
              - Hell, I'd rather we actually ban carbon emissions over a decade and spent 100 trillion...  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 11:43 PM   #26 
           - Yeah, like I said, GeoEngineering  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-23-09 10:22 PM   #22 
           - Think I was using a different definition  Dead_Parrot   Nov-23-09 10:30 PM   #24 
           - Heres the definition of the National Academies from 1992  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-24-09 10:31 AM   #34 
           - When you say, "I'm pretty well convinced that we dont stand a chance without something like this"  GliderGuider   Nov-24-09 10:37 AM   #35 
              - A good question, to which I wish I had an equally good answer  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-24-09 11:04 AM   #36 
                 - I've taken the extinction end-point out of my considerations.  GliderGuider   Nov-24-09 11:40 AM   #39 
                    - I agree that there is a wide (but rapidly narrowing) range of possibilities  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-24-09 12:33 PM   #40 
                       - The problem as I see it that we may be able to predict an event, but not its impacts.  GliderGuider   Nov-24-09 01:34 PM   #41 
                          - others could be turned off if unintended effects occur.  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-24-09 03:03 PM   #42 
           - Making coal seems a pretty good deal too...  hunter   Nov-27-09 10:39 AM   #57 
        - My idea, have little solar-powered nano-bots convert CO2 into O2 and pure carbon.  Odin2005   Nov-29-09 11:07 AM   #63 
     - If we don't get a quick handle on population growth, all of the rest is futile.  Gregorian   Nov-23-09 07:01 PM   #14 
        - Unfortunately the best method for population ceasation is a higher standard of living.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 08:53 PM   #16 
           - Absolutely. By unfortunate, I suppose you mean higher carbon footprint.  Gregorian   Nov-23-09 09:36 PM   #20 
           - Indeed, though theoreticallly a proper high level society need no carbon footprint.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 11:45 PM   #27 
           - Which is why immigration is high in the developed world  The2ndWheel   Nov-24-09 11:34 AM   #38 
  - recommended. People don't realize that it's very difficult to gauge the RATE of acceleration of GW.  JohnWxy   Nov-23-09 05:43 PM   #5 
  - Hansen said years ago that sea ice melt was going to smack us in the face.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 05:51 PM   #6 
  - And like I keep saying,  Bigmack   Nov-23-09 06:42 PM   #12 
  - That produces a local effect, though. Europe gets colder, no more fine wines.  joshcryer   Nov-23-09 09:05 PM   #18 
  - I GLOBAL  Bigmack   Nov-23-09 09:39 PM   #21 
  - Really hard to say  Nederland   Nov-24-09 02:30 AM   #31 
  - What a lousy article  Nederland   Nov-24-09 12:54 AM   #28 
  - Search for the scientists' names.  joshcryer   Nov-24-09 01:47 AM   #29 
     - Thanks  Nederland   Nov-24-09 02:13 AM   #30 
        - You have to look at that graph in context. The 08 series is La Nina, it should be much lower.  joshcryer   Nov-24-09 03:24 AM   #32 
        - I think when scientists say "accelerated" they mean from past or known model predictions.  joshcryer   Nov-24-09 04:53 AM   #33 
        - Please note that sea level rise is not uniform  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-24-09 11:31 AM   #37 
           - Then it isn't simply due to more melt water? NT  Howzit   Nov-25-09 12:04 AM   #43 
           - Thermal expansion.  joshcryer   Nov-25-09 12:05 AM   #44 
              - There are other factors as well  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-25-09 04:01 PM   #48 
           - In the short run and for small increases, yes  Nederland   Nov-25-09 11:36 AM   #45 
              - If future flow increases, as is being observed, the baseline changes.  joshcryer   Nov-25-09 02:58 PM   #46 
              - No, that doesn't necessarily follow, although it might seem to be common sense  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-25-09 03:55 PM   #47 
                 - That makes no sense whatsoever  Nederland   Nov-26-09 03:46 PM   #49 
                    - It's just the way the effects add up  Dead_Parrot   Nov-26-09 04:17 PM   #50 
                    - isostatic rebound  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-26-09 11:40 PM   #52 
                       - Hmm. Not sure...  Dead_Parrot   Nov-27-09 12:12 AM   #53 
                          - Start your poking here  OKIsItJustMe   Nov-27-09 12:33 AM   #54 
                             - LOL. I just found that article...  Dead_Parrot   Nov-27-09 12:54 AM   #55 
                             - Err ... what?  Nihil   Nov-27-09 06:24 AM   #56 
                                - 30 gt of CO2 a year = massive fluxes in natural systems = holy crap.  joshcryer   Nov-28-09 05:45 PM   #60 
                    - The thing is Nederland, the east ice sheet was not expected to melt until well after 2.0C.  joshcryer   Nov-26-09 10:28 PM   #51 
                       - I take away a different lesson  Nederland   Nov-28-09 01:37 PM   #58 
                          - IPCC AR4 noted that our dynamical ice flow models were guesses.  joshcryer   Nov-28-09 03:26 PM   #59 
                             - Good point  Nederland   Nov-29-09 09:56 AM   #62 
                                - I'm disappointed that that CO2 / temperature measuring satellite didn't make orbit.  joshcryer   Nov-29-09 11:34 AM   #65 
  - Interesting thread.  Quantess   Nov-28-09 10:50 PM   #61 
  - And when the West Antarctic Ice Shelf goes...  Odin2005   Nov-29-09 11:11 AM   #64 

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