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Reply #12: Actually I don't need to achieve anything [View All]

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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Actually I don't need to achieve anything
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 09:08 PM by OKIsItJustMe
The point of the Original Post was that hydrogen fuel cells are some deep dark conspiracy between GM and the oil companies.

Once again, it's a conspiracy that GM has entered into; not only with the oil companies, but with Honda and Toyota and Volkswagen and Nissan and Renault and Mazda and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fuel_cell_vehicles...


At the current time, batteries are too big and too heavy. (i.e. both storage mediums have their advantages and disadvantages.)

Distribution is a red herring (as you well know.) Hydrogen will not be refined, or pumped from wells. It can be produced anywhere there is electricity and water.

It can be produced at your corner filling station, or in your own garage, using electricity from your back yard solar panel; which brings up one of its advantages over batteries. Hydrogen can be produced at home while you're away, and conveniently stored for refilling your car when you return in the evening.

It can even be used to make solar power available 24 hours a day:
http://www.solarsystems.com.au/documents/SolarSystemsMe...

Hydrogen is simply another convenient storage medium for electricity.
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  -Honey, I shrunk the fuel cell! Next-gen GM hydrogen stack gets small wtmusic  Aug-17-09 10:35 AM   #0 
  - Platinum-free fuel cell promises cheap, green power  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:35 AM   #1 
  - We have here lots of promises, but almost no delivery.  NNadir   Aug-18-09 01:14 AM   #23 
  - Commercial hydrogen is not electrolysed. It's "cracked" from fossil fuels.  TheMadMonk   Aug-17-09 11:45 AM   #2 
  - Except when it's electrolyzed  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:52 AM   #4 
     - I'd also suggest you read the first bloody line of a post before...  TheMadMonk   Aug-17-09 07:35 PM   #11 
  - Brown Chemists Create More Efficient Palladium Fuel Cell Catalysts  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:47 AM   #3 
  - This is a bit dated...  kristopher   Aug-17-09 12:47 PM   #5 
  - Yes, it's dated and slanted  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 01:01 PM   #6 
     - Slanted?  kristopher   Aug-17-09 02:30 PM   #7 
     - Are you including compression and hydrogen infrastructure  wtmusic   Aug-17-09 05:16 PM   #8 
        - Clearly, I was not  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 06:52 PM   #9 
           - You need to achieve more than a 200% increase in overall efficiency.  kristopher   Aug-17-09 07:06 PM   #10 
              - Actually I don't need to achieve anything  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 09:06 PM   #12 
                 - Refilling your car when you return in the evening?  wtmusic   Aug-17-09 09:44 PM   #13 
                 - You're right of course  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 10:05 PM   #14 
                    - Finally, we agree on something.  wtmusic   Aug-17-09 10:32 PM   #16 
                       - Yeah I guess GM and the oil companies did them in. Huh?  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:33 PM   #20 
                          - No, just bad engineering and pie in the sky thinking.  wtmusic   Aug-17-09 11:42 PM   #21 
                 - Hydrogen is simply another convenient storage medium for electricity?  kristopher   Aug-17-09 10:25 PM   #15 
                    - If you repeat yourself enough times, I may agree  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:12 PM   #17 
                       - So, batteries are "only" 160% more efficient than fuel cells, rather than 300%?  NickB79   Aug-17-09 11:18 PM   #18 
                       - Bad math  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-17-09 11:21 PM   #19 
                          - Try 200% more efficient.  wtmusic   Aug-17-09 11:56 PM   #22 
                             - So, I guess you didn't bother to read what I'd written then  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 07:35 AM   #26 
                                - When you're just plain wrong (you are)  wtmusic   Aug-18-09 09:32 AM   #34 
                       - I'm surprised this is important enough to you  kristopher   Aug-18-09 01:59 AM   #24 
                       - Pleaase, point out the flaws  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 07:37 AM   #27 
                          - Efficient enough for what?  kristopher   Aug-18-09 08:43 AM   #29 
                          - "the fact is that they are not the right tool for that job, not now and not in the near term future"  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 09:12 AM   #31 
                          - What do you mean "pursue"?  kristopher   Aug-18-09 09:19 AM   #33 
                             - The DoE has (in effect) said fuel cells not viable in the short term, so we have higher priorities  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 03:27 PM   #36 
                                - That isn't what he said.  kristopher   Aug-18-09 04:21 PM   #38 
                                   - (Naturally) I disagree  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 04:36 PM   #39 
                                      - "If that isn't conspiratorial, what is it?"  kristopher   Aug-18-09 05:11 PM   #41 
                          - More careful reading  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 10:03 AM   #35 
                          - Why is it important to me?  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 08:53 AM   #30 
                             - That's right.  kristopher   Aug-18-09 09:16 AM   # 
                                - OK, let's look at those numbers for a moment  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 04:15 PM   #37 
                                   - You have GOT be fucking kidding...  kristopher   Aug-18-09 05:05 PM   #40 
                                      - I know, if I agree with you, I have integrity  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 05:15 PM   #42 
                                         - It isn't agreement or disagreement that is the issue.  kristopher   Aug-18-09 07:19 PM   #43 
                                            - I'm sure you see it that way  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 08:32 PM   #44 
                                               - Hmmm  kristopher   Aug-18-09 09:13 PM   #45 
                                                  - I see, you're back to repeating yourself again  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 09:42 PM   #46 
                                                  - Sure.  kristopher   Aug-18-09 09:52 PM   #47 
                                                  - He does that  Nederland   Aug-19-09 02:46 PM   #50 
                       - You may want to bookmark this link  kristopher   Aug-18-09 02:54 AM   #25 
                       - Please follow this link (I supplied it in post #17)  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-18-09 07:39 AM   #28 
                       - where do you see, 60% efficiency?  excess_3   Aug-18-09 10:18 PM   #48 
                          - I supplied it above  OKIsItJustMe   Aug-19-09 01:13 PM   #49 
  - ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##  DU GrovelBot   Aug-18-09 09:16 AM   #32 
 

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