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Tue Jan-18-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
| 15. "...only makes it easier for the PNACers to justify their crusade."
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Not really. In fact, it seems more logical to frame Iraq as the beginning of a series of resource wars that have even greater potential to harm civilization, and that those wars will become necessary to serve a few interests (the oil industry) at the expense of everyone else unless a serious shift in the way we use energy is made.
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| -So, how much stock do you put in the most "pessimistic" peak oil theories? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 07:39 PM |
#0 |
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Dr Ken Defeyes who accurately called the shortage of the 70's |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Jan-18-05 07:48 PM |
#1 |
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Thanks for pointing out an important clarification. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 07:56 PM |
#4 |
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There was a really great article in The American Prospect |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Jan-18-05 08:04 PM |
#7 |
| -
I think it was M. King Hubbert who made the prediction . . . |
hatrack |
Jan-18-05 08:40 PM |
#10 |
| -
I bow to your expertise |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Jan-18-05 09:16 PM |
#17 |
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I don't know if reading a lot constitutes "expertise" . . . |
hatrack |
Jan-18-05 09:23 PM |
#18 |
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If it weren't for your persistence, I'd know a hell of a lot less |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Jan-18-05 09:26 PM |
#19 |
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I heard that Valerie Plame was really deep undercover with an ear to the |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 04:00 PM |
#69 |
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No, Bush does NOT read policy papers. |
happyslug |
Jan-26-05 07:05 PM |
#101 |
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Peak oil will occur in 2006 (for conventional oil) |
BlueEyedSon |
Jan-18-05 07:50 PM |
#2 |
| -
Thanks for the group link. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 07:58 PM |
#5 |
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crop-growing arrangements? |
SlavesandBulldozers |
Jan-18-05 07:51 PM |
#3 |
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I haven't seen them espoused here. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 08:01 PM |
#6 |
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According to "Crossing the Rubicon" we've only got 35 more years |
EVDebs |
Jan-18-05 08:19 PM |
#8 |
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We have lots of oil in the world |
Maple |
Jan-18-05 08:34 PM |
#9 |
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I understand that we're not talking about exhaustion of supply. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 09:04 PM |
#13 |
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the ability to switch to another 'renewable' energy source would involve |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 04:26 PM |
#70 |
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Not Much |
AndyTiedye |
Jan-18-05 08:40 PM |
#11 |
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"...only makes it easier for the PNACers to justify their crusade."
|
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 09:10 PM |
#15 |
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When supply outstrips demand- |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-18-05 08:46 PM |
#12 |
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Canada... |
chrisbur |
Jan-18-05 09:07 PM |
#14 |
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Hah! You're not, I read that too...oil sands. n/t |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 09:11 PM |
#16 |
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It's not just expensive financially - it's expensive thermodynamically |
hatrack |
Jan-18-05 09:31 PM |
#20 |
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So...essentially it's a house of cards-- |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-18-05 09:51 PM |
# |
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Hmm. Like I said, ass talking. |
chrisbur |
Jan-18-05 09:51 PM |
#22 |
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you're right but it is very sad |
amazona |
Jan-18-05 10:04 PM |
#24 |
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None |
RafterMan |
Jan-18-05 09:34 PM |
#21 |
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I put about zero stock in it |
amazona |
Jan-18-05 10:01 PM |
#23 |
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Who needs to be "pessimistic"? Look what has ALREADY happened: |
BlueEyedSon |
Jan-19-05 06:23 AM |
#25 |
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I myself am looking forward to the twenty hour work week. |
hunter |
Jan-19-05 02:17 PM |
#26 |
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You raise some good points... |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-05 02:56 PM |
#27 |
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Or Brin's "The Postman" |
loindelrio |
Jan-19-05 08:12 PM |
#28 |
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Peak Oil Will Signal The End Of Exponential Growth In Energy Supplies |
loindelrio |
Jan-19-05 08:59 PM |
#29 |
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"...the U.S. could manage the ‘Powerdown’ with a minimum of trauma" |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-20-05 12:03 AM |
#30 |
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I Guess It Depends On One's Definition Of 'Minimum of Trauma' |
loindelrio |
Jan-20-05 10:56 PM |
#40 |
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no powerdown is needed |
rfkrfk |
Jan-20-05 02:12 AM |
#31 |
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Right, coal is an inexhaustible resource and non-polluting too. |
BlueEyedSon |
Jan-20-05 08:42 AM |
#32 |
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Not exactly |
rfkrfk |
Jan-21-05 12:34 AM |
#43 |
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Methanol is a terrible fuel for general use. |
hunter |
Jan-20-05 12:04 PM |
#33 |
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"...a crack addict digging through the shag carpet" |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-20-05 03:15 PM |
#37 |
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LOL your crack addict comparison. so true. If it wasn't so sad and scary |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 08:00 PM |
#74 |
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That IS one beautiful image about the crack addict. On DME, |
NNadir |
Jan-27-05 09:00 PM |
#106 |
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I Do Not See How This Can Keep Up With The Rate Of Oil Depletion |
loindelrio |
Jan-20-05 10:37 PM |
#39 |
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EROEI - Energy Return on Energy Investment |
hunter |
Jan-21-05 01:48 AM |
#44 |
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you must be talking about that 'clean-coal' technology |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 07:54 PM |
#73 |
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in most countries, 'clean' won't be an issue |
rfkrfk |
Jan-27-05 06:40 AM |
#103 |
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The problem is not only the end of cheap oil, it is that coupled with the |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 07:48 PM |
#71 |
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Won't the military industrial complex be running on empty soon too. |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 07:52 PM |
#72 |
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The issue is who do you want to believe. |
happyslug |
Jan-20-05 12:50 PM |
#34 |
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How much is your house worth? |
hunter |
Jan-20-05 01:35 PM |
#35 |
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I agree, that is why I lean to the 2004 date. |
happyslug |
Jan-20-05 02:13 PM |
#36 |
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Thanks for the summary HappySlug |
Nihil |
Jan-21-05 05:22 AM |
#45 |
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our civilization |
zonmoy |
Jan-20-05 04:18 PM |
#38 |
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Speaking of cold fusion... |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-20-05 11:26 PM |
#41 |
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Harvey -- I'm Posting The Book Forward By Arthur C. Clark |
Tace |
Jan-21-05 12:18 AM |
#42 |
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The problem is can the world environmentally survive oil's replacement. |
NNadir |
Jan-21-05 06:45 AM |
#46 |
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I've seen other estimates of nuclear fuel availability |
RafterMan |
Jan-21-05 10:22 AM |
#47 |
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Yes, but... |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-21-05 03:25 PM |
#48 |
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Not so |
RafterMan |
Jan-21-05 08:39 PM |
#49 |
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I didn't mean to imply... |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-21-05 09:43 PM |
#51 |
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According to RAW Bush supports Nuclear Power... |
sorechasm |
Jan-22-05 10:20 AM |
#52 |
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Bush does NOT support nuclear power. |
NNadir |
Jan-25-05 09:58 PM |
#84 |
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Maybe somewhere else. Not here. |
NNadir |
Jan-23-05 09:16 PM |
#59 |
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Heh |
RafterMan |
Jan-23-05 11:00 PM |
#63 |
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"The Right Spent Decades Ignoring . . . The Left Rejects Any Role . .. " |
loindelrio |
Jan-29-05 12:57 PM |
#114 |
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I really have had a hard time understanding leftist disdain for nuclear |
NNadir |
Jan-29-05 04:47 PM |
#115 |
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Many promoters of Nuclear Power in the 70's were the worst sort of LIARS. |
hunter |
Jan-29-05 11:42 PM |
#116 |
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This was certainly true in some cases. |
NNadir |
Jan-30-05 07:25 AM |
#117 |
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The article you link to is really old information. |
GumboYaYa |
Jan-25-05 03:06 PM |
#80 |
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Nope |
RafterMan |
Jan-26-05 01:35 AM |
#94 |
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I admit that I do not know much about Uranium 235 versus 238 |
GumboYaYa |
Jan-26-05 09:29 AM |
#95 |
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Sure |
RafterMan |
Jan-26-05 11:11 AM |
#97 |
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I hear what you are saying from a technological and scientific |
GumboYaYa |
Jan-26-05 11:46 AM |
#98 |
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Agreeing that nuclear is best, then let's calculate it the energy value |
NNadir |
Jan-26-05 11:06 AM |
#96 |
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Even if Cohen is off by a factor of 10,000 |
RafterMan |
Jan-26-05 12:46 PM |
#99 |
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Well in any case, as you've correctly noted, fuel, is not the problem. |
NNadir |
Jan-26-05 02:55 PM |
#100 |
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Not much.... |
ChemEng |
Jan-21-05 08:48 PM |
#50 |
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I'm fairly pessimistic. |
brokensymmetry |
Jan-22-05 11:19 PM |
#53 |
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Some MAJOR considerations |
Pigwidgeon |
Jan-23-05 06:40 AM |
#54 |
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Hold on there |
RafterMan |
Jan-23-05 12:44 PM |
#55 |
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As long as we have energy... |
brokensymmetry |
Jan-23-05 03:25 PM |
#56 |
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NUKE PLANTS? |
BeFree |
Jan-23-05 04:25 PM |
#57 |
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Actually, I agree with you. |
brokensymmetry |
Jan-23-05 08:14 PM |
#58 |
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Uranium from sea water |
RafterMan |
Jan-23-05 10:32 PM |
#62 |
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Forgot to add |
RafterMan |
Jan-27-05 05:56 AM |
#102 |
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As the United States Circles the Drain... |
hunter |
Jan-23-05 09:48 PM |
#60 |
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For What We Are Spending On Iraq/Defense, We Could Get A Good Head Start |
loindelrio |
Jan-23-05 11:51 PM |
#64 |
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Nuclear plants are a fantasy? |
RafterMan |
Jan-23-05 09:53 PM |
#61 |
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It's fantasy because French Electrons are girly-men... |
hunter |
Jan-24-05 03:41 AM |
#65 |
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I had a dream like that |
BeFree |
Jan-24-05 08:55 AM |
#66 |
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"Decentralized, locally controllable, |
RafterMan |
Jan-24-05 09:13 AM |
#67 |
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Such as? |
BeFree |
Jan-24-05 09:58 AM |
#68 |
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I just read today about a town in NJ, Tom's River that has converted all |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 08:33 PM |
#76 |
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Sounds wonderful for powering a suburb |
NickB79 |
Jan-25-05 05:09 PM |
#81 |
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Definitely some dreaming going on here. There are 439 operating |
NNadir |
Jan-24-05 09:19 PM |
#77 |
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Gee, Nadir |
BeFree |
Jan-25-05 07:57 AM |
#78 |
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If I may |
NickB79 |
Jan-25-05 05:13 PM |
#82 |
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Cool. Call me a "fart smeller." (Mods: Please do not remove.) |
NNadir |
Jan-25-05 09:27 PM |
#83 |
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Good lord man |
BeFree |
Jan-25-05 10:51 PM |
#85 |
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I have no sense of humor when it comes to destroying the future in |
NNadir |
Jan-25-05 11:17 PM |
#86 |
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Hey don't take it so hard |
BeFree |
Jan-25-05 11:35 PM |
#88 |
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Yet in the first world |
RafterMan |
Jan-26-05 12:51 AM |
#92 |
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Yep, we'll get along just fine without nukes 50-75 yrs from now |
NickB79 |
Jan-26-05 12:42 AM |
#91 |
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God damn, that's scary |
BeFree |
Jan-25-05 11:18 PM |
#87 |
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Sorry, but your fantasies and your "I'll bets" are not good enough. |
NNadir |
Jan-25-05 11:52 PM |
#89 |
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Why aren't you working for the DOE? |
BeFree |
Jan-26-05 12:03 AM |
#90 |
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Most of them know the "solution" on which they are working is political |
NNadir |
Jan-26-05 12:54 AM |
#93 |
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Funny stuff. Thanks for the laugh, this thread was a downer until you came |
bunny planet |
Jan-24-05 08:29 PM |
#75 |
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Thanks. |
hunter |
Jan-25-05 01:53 PM |
#79 |
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Excellent post |
Nihil |
Jan-27-05 07:22 AM |
#104 |
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The worst kind of stupid, the evil, greedy and dangerous kind. |
bunny planet |
Jan-27-05 11:10 AM |
#105 |
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"Oil, Oil, Everywhere..." article in the Wall Street Journal |
ROH |
Jan-27-05 10:46 PM |
#107 |
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The Oil Matrix |
Pigwidgeon |
Jan-28-05 03:26 AM |
#108 |
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Here is a reference to the Wall Street Journal Article: |
ROH |
Jan-28-05 09:30 AM |
#109 |
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The United States alone consumes over 20 million barrels oil per day... |
hunter |
Jan-28-05 11:33 AM |
#110 |
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What's really happening here? |
Pigwidgeon |
Jan-28-05 06:08 PM |
#112 |
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Thank you for the replies |
ROH |
Jan-29-05 12:29 AM |
#113 |
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It's a question for anyone (particularly NNadir) who can answer, please... |
ROH |
Jan-30-05 10:28 AM |
#118 |
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I am not an expert on tar sands. The question of tar sands is best |
NNadir |
Jan-30-05 11:18 AM |
#119 |
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My Understanding of the Situation |
ROH |
Jan-30-05 04:48 PM |
#120 |
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Tar Sands Do Not Appear To Be A Viable Energy Source |
loindelrio |
Jan-30-05 05:49 PM |
#121 |
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Thank you for your comments... |
ROH |
Jan-30-05 09:25 PM |
#123 |
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It Depends On Your Definition Of Required Total Amounts |
loindelrio |
Jan-31-05 03:57 PM |
#126 |
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Switchgrass seems like a very useful biomass source. |
ROH |
Jan-31-05 05:00 PM |
#127 |
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I Would Anticipate Switchgrass Would Be Grown On The High Plains |
loindelrio |
Jan-31-05 05:57 PM |
#128 |
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I regard biofuels as palliative at the most extreme best. |
NNadir |
Jan-31-05 09:13 PM |
#129 |
| -
This presentation by fusion researchers show why fusion is unworkable |
NNadir |
Jan-30-05 07:01 PM |
#122 |
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Thank you for your reply and the link to the presentation regarding fusion |
ROH |
Jan-30-05 09:32 PM |
#124 |
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Your comments on ITER, please? |
ROH |
Feb-01-05 08:42 PM |
#130 |
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I generally support all non fossil energy research but |
NNadir |
Feb-02-05 05:44 AM |
#131 |
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The deadly Time Lag |
Pigwidgeon |
Feb-04-05 10:21 AM |
#134 |
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There are several issues here, economic, technical, and environmental. |
NNadir |
Feb-05-05 12:01 AM |
#136 |
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Journalists Do Not Understand The Fact That Energy Cannot Be Created |
loindelrio |
Jan-28-05 02:36 PM |
#111 |
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Yes, I think their claim was... |
ROH |
Jan-30-05 09:49 PM |
#125 |
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Has anyone considered whether thermal depolymerization (TDP) |
amandabeech |
Feb-04-05 10:54 PM |
#135 |
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Royal Dutch Shell (RD) becomes one of the biggest oils again |
jmcgowanjm |
Feb-03-05 08:22 PM |
#132 |
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Oops-in post above 168 days should read 16.8 days-thanx |
jmcgowanjm |
Feb-04-05 08:40 AM |
#133 |
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