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Reply #24: Figures ... going backwards into the future ... [View All]

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. Figures ... going backwards into the future ...

On a serious point ...
> Civilization with its consumption of resources is not going to
> go away because you don't like it.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. Civilisation with its
constantly increasing consumption of resources is going to
go away and, in the process, a lot of people, animals, plants, marine
life and minerals are going to go away too. It is the timescale and
thus the severity of the transition that concerns me.

> I see many people wanting to live in an "advanced civilization" and
> few who prefer to live in a mud hut and grow yams.

As above, it simply doesn't matter what "many people" want: they are not
in the position to get it.

Constantly increasing numbers of people consuming increasing quantities
of resources (for their "advanced civilisation" dreams) results in fewer
resources left and more pollution in the process. This, in turn, results
in fewer people (through conflict, resource shortage and environmental

> Better to make the best use of those resources than to sit around
> and bitch about the downsides.

I agree with this bit but strongly disagree that the proposals above
are in fact making "the best use of those resources". They are making
the quickest, shoot-from-the-hip, commercially-advantageous and short-term
politically-expedient use of those resources. This results in a one-off
consumption of said resources, a deterioration of the environmental
situation and an acceleration of the intensity of the problem (which will,
in turn, generate a whole new set of brain-dead "quick fix" schemes in the
hope of finding some touchstone to allow the stupid game to continue).

*THAT* is the base of my objection, not some desire to grow yams ...
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  -Scientists urge caution in ocean-CO2 capture schemes OKIsItJustMe  Dec-15-08 11:38 AM   #0 
  - Can anyone say "Algae Bloom" or "Red Tide"?  Vincardog   Dec-15-08 12:10 PM   #1 
  - This idea is fucked up beyond belief. nt  lulu in NC   Dec-15-08 01:12 PM   #2 
  - No it's not  izquierdista   Dec-15-08 01:59 PM   #3 
     - The second path...  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-15-08 02:07 PM   #4 
     - Cooperation vs. confrontation  izquierdista   Dec-15-08 02:35 PM   #5 
        - You have got to be joking.  Nihil   Dec-15-08 02:40 PM   #7 
           - I'll advance my arse, thank you  izquierdista   Dec-15-08 03:02 PM   #9 
           - Figures ... going backwards into the future ...  Nihil   Dec-16-08 04:48 AM   #24 
           - It's already broken, the question is whether we should try to fix it or not  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-15-08 04:29 PM   #15 
              - The extent of our "fixing" is simply to stop our output.  Nihil   Dec-16-08 04:29 AM   #23 
                 - Read the graph again  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 08:30 AM   #25 
                    - Whoops ...  Nihil   Dec-16-08 09:12 AM   #26 
                       - Nature's "fix"  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 11:12 AM   #27 
                          - We're emitting CO2 ten times faster than tthe Deccan Traps did  GliderGuider   Dec-16-08 11:23 AM   #28 
                             - We may have already done it.  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 11:38 AM   #29 
                             - Remember, duration is important as well as rate  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 12:10 PM   #32 
                                - There's a theory that says the rate is as important as the total volume of gas emitted  GliderGuider   Dec-16-08 12:20 PM   #34 
                                   - Actually, I agree.  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 01:31 PM   #35 
     - That first option is seriously FUBAR!  Nihil   Dec-15-08 02:35 PM   #6 
     - If humans can't engineer their environment  izquierdista   Dec-15-08 03:14 PM   #11 
        - That was a good (albeit accidental) analogy: humans *are* no better than yeasts ...  Nihil   Dec-16-08 03:07 AM   #22 
           - This is (quite simply) untrue  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 11:55 AM   #31 
              - Has the global population started declining yet?  GliderGuider   Dec-16-08 12:15 PM   #33 
                 - The curve is starting to shoulder  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 01:39 PM   #36 
                 - Do you suppose it's instinctual ?  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-16-08 02:37 PM   #37 
     - It's fucked up - and it's called anthropogenic eutrophication  jpak   Dec-15-08 02:56 PM   #8 
        - The problem with iron  izquierdista   Dec-15-08 03:11 PM   #10 
        - Ugh - a short tutorial FYI  jpak   Dec-15-08 03:22 PM   #12 
        - That is probably the worst post you've ever written.  kristopher   Dec-15-08 03:54 PM   #13 
           - Sorry Kristopher - anthropogenic eutrophication is anthropogenic eutrophication.  jpak   Dec-15-08 04:25 PM   #14 
           - You should reread your references with what I wrote in mind.  kristopher   Dec-15-08 08:44 PM   #20 
              - Sorry, the science clearly indicates that it doesn't work  jpak   Dec-16-08 11:52 AM   #30 
           - But wait...there's more...  jpak   Dec-15-08 04:47 PM   #16 
              - Another citation supporting what I wrote  kristopher   Dec-15-08 08:51 PM   #21 
  - What could possibly go wrong? We know EXACTLY how to terraform!!!  hatrack   Dec-15-08 05:19 PM   #17 
  - How much worse can we make things? (Really)  OKIsItJustMe   Dec-15-08 05:34 PM   #18 
  - Perhaps it's more than a one step process  angryfirelord   Dec-15-08 06:16 PM   #19 

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