kristopher
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Aug-14-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
| 59. How do you make that determination? |
|
What is it you think stands in the way of such products being available? Can you be more precise about what "a very long way" is supposed to mean?
Pick any successful consumer electronics product or technology and dig out a cost/market penetration graph. In every case you see huge price reductions due to increased investment in manufacturing and wide-scale (near universal) deployment within 10 years. Batteries and solar panels are not one bit different than any other such product - the only thing missing is high market demand, which is a matter of policy related to fossil fuels, not public preference related to batteries or solar.
Two more relevant facts: our personal transportation fleet rotates almost completely within a 10 year cycle; Tesla's batteries are already obsolete.
Compare the price of a "walkman" with state of the art 1995 techonolgy with the same tape-machine (same features) today. You won't find the same manufacturer, but what cost $3-400 in 1995 costs $5 today.
Over and over and over we see the same process.
|
| -Fighting Big Solar: Environmentalists clash over paving the desert in order to save the planet |
OKIsItJustMe |
Aug-12-08 05:07 PM |
#0 |
 -
There is no risk free energy. |
phantom power |
Aug-12-08 05:08 PM |
#1 |
| -
I might get flamed for this |
texastoast |
Aug-12-08 05:14 PM |
#2 |
| -
Wait until we get around to a discussion of where to dump the waste. |
NNadir |
Aug-12-08 05:27 PM |
#3 |
 -
Solar Waste? |
qwlauren35 |
Aug-12-08 06:07 PM |
#4 |
| -
Well, here's an example: |
phantom power |
Aug-12-08 06:10 PM |
#5 |
 -
This is NOT a joke. |
NNadir |
Aug-12-08 06:14 PM |
#6 |
| -
True, there is waste |
texastoast |
Aug-12-08 06:20 PM |
#7 |
| -
There has been whiz bang technology announced every 10 minutes connected with solar electricity. |
NNadir |
Aug-12-08 06:24 PM |
#8 |
| -
Maybe this time is different |
texastoast |
Aug-13-08 11:46 AM |
#28 |
| -
You ever seen a tar sands mine? |
n2doc |
Aug-12-08 08:21 PM |
#11 |
| -
How about Yucca Mountain? |
tinrobot |
Aug-13-08 12:14 AM |
#20 |
| -
Why does this solar energy cost 15 to 17 cents? |
SnoopDog |
Aug-12-08 07:25 PM |
#9 |
| -
Because solar cells are not free |
jberryhill |
Aug-12-08 09:13 PM |
#12 |
| -
What? |
SnoopDog |
Aug-12-08 09:29 PM |
#13 |
| -
First, let's decide which technologies you want to compare, and then we can compare them... |
jberryhill |
Aug-12-08 10:29 PM |
#14 |
| -
Ok thanks anyway...? |
SnoopDog |
Aug-12-08 10:42 PM |
#16 |
| -
"COST PER KW" |
jberryhill |
Aug-12-08 11:13 PM |
#17 |
| -
Nanosolar thin film panels are down to $0.95/watt with 14% CF. nt |
kristopher |
Aug-13-08 12:16 AM |
#21 |
| -
Okay, here's the cost structure |
jberryhill |
Aug-12-08 11:51 PM |
#18 |
| -
coal jumped to nearly $100/s.t. this year and carbon caps are yet to come. nt |
kristopher |
Aug-13-08 12:18 AM |
#22 |
| -
Your cost accounting is too simplistic |
HamdenRice |
Aug-13-08 10:47 AM |
#25 |
| -
No shit, really? |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 11:10 AM |
#26 |
| -
"can be compared in $/Watt." |
HamdenRice |
Aug-13-08 12:21 PM |
#30 |
| -
"Fundamentally flawed" |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 02:07 PM |
#37 |
| -
Unfortunately, half the people in this forum don't know the difference ... |
oldhippie |
Aug-13-08 06:51 PM |
#46 |
| -
Ok, you are an experienced EE person, so I ask you... |
SnoopDog |
Aug-13-08 08:12 PM |
#48 |
| -
I'll give it a shot ........... |
oldhippie |
Aug-13-08 09:50 PM |
#49 |
| -
Thanks... |
SnoopDog |
Aug-13-08 10:19 PM |
#52 |
| -
You've actually taken the wrong message away from the explanation |
kristopher |
Aug-14-08 04:54 AM |
#54 |
| -
So 30 years ago solar wasn't feasible? I'm shocked! |
Indenturedebtor |
Aug-15-08 06:50 AM |
#66 |
| -
So if we use more realistic numbers |
Finishline42 |
Aug-13-08 05:05 PM |
#43 |
| -
You are asking an excellent question. Don't let the "smarter than thou" types throw you off. |
HamdenRice |
Aug-13-08 10:27 AM |
#23 |
| -
"if government industrial policy picks up the investment costs" |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 11:16 AM |
#27 |
| -
How much did your first pc cost? |
HamdenRice |
Aug-13-08 12:17 PM |
#29 |
| -
Hamden, you are missing the point |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 02:04 PM |
#36 |
| -
As pointed out elsewhere in the thread |
Finishline42 |
Aug-13-08 01:31 PM |
#33 |
| -
Excellent points, all nt |
HamdenRice |
Aug-14-08 08:37 AM |
#56 |
| -
I'm trying not to let the "smarter than thou" types throw me off |
wtmusic |
Aug-13-08 01:08 PM |
#32 |
| -
Providing numbers is false certainty if the numbers are garbage |
HamdenRice |
Aug-13-08 02:32 PM |
#39 |
| -
okay, then you don't want to explain the difference betwen $/W and $/Wh /nt |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 04:36 PM |
#40 |
| -
OK, point taken. |
wtmusic |
Aug-13-08 04:39 PM |
#42 |
| -
Thanks for your response. Still doesn't add up - at least to me... |
SnoopDog |
Aug-13-08 01:40 PM |
#34 |
| -
Hamden, do you see what I mean? |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 02:00 PM |
#35 |
| -
Well now Doctor.... |
SnoopDog |
Aug-13-08 02:14 PM |
#38 |
| -
Well if you know the difference |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 04:37 PM |
#41 |
| -
That isn't correct, JB. |
kristopher |
Aug-13-08 06:05 PM |
#44 |
| -
I'm aware of what goes into the charge on the bill.... |
jberryhill |
Aug-13-08 07:55 PM |
#47 |
| -
Don't take offense... |
kristopher |
Aug-14-08 05:01 AM |
#55 |
| -
You made a good point, so no need to take offense, but ... |
HamdenRice |
Aug-14-08 08:38 AM |
#57 |
| -
Thank you for your common sense. |
ChazII |
Aug-16-08 03:06 AM |
#73 |
| -
Solar thermal plants...not PV panels |
Fledermaus |
Aug-14-08 12:08 AM |
#53 |
| -
That waste is from producing photovoltaic panels |
caraher |
Aug-12-08 08:08 PM |
#10 |
| -
Steam engines are not a "young technology" /nt |
jberryhill |
Aug-12-08 10:34 PM |
#15 |
| -
The energy payback on solar PV is between 1-4 years |
kristopher |
Aug-13-08 12:12 AM |
#19 |
| -
Exactly |
Nederland |
Aug-13-08 10:44 AM |
#24 |
| -
Which is where V2G enters the picture. |
kristopher |
Aug-13-08 06:09 PM |
#45 |
| -
That would be very nice... |
Nederland |
Aug-14-08 03:11 PM |
#58 |
| -
How do you make that determination? |
kristopher |
Aug-14-08 03:48 PM |
#59 |
| -
The big difference is technology type |
Nederland |
Aug-14-08 04:06 PM |
#60 |
| -
We will see, won't we. nt |
kristopher |
Aug-14-08 11:38 PM |
#63 |
| -
That is not the problem |
Finishline42 |
Aug-15-08 09:57 AM |
#67 |
| -
Apparently you don't know what the term "Marginal Cost" means |
Nederland |
Aug-15-08 10:41 AM |
#68 |
| -
Yes the marginal cost of the materials for batteries are higher |
Finishline42 |
Aug-15-08 12:27 PM |
#69 |
| -
Yes |
Nederland |
Aug-15-08 12:35 PM |
#70 |
| -
You might want to adjust your expectations for the batteries |
kristopher |
Aug-15-08 10:37 PM |
#72 |
| -
Look at the history of television sets |
Nederland |
Aug-14-08 07:06 PM |
#62 |
| -
Hmmm... OK, I think I know what the issue was with the sources I'm remembering |
caraher |
Aug-14-08 06:57 PM |
#61 |
| -
My guess was that you had crossed energy and monetary paybacks. nt |
kristopher |
Aug-15-08 12:03 AM |
#64 |
| -
I know it wasn't money |
caraher |
Aug-15-08 09:48 PM |
#71 |
| -
The solar power cartel gets a taste of NIMBY |
wtmusic |
Aug-13-08 12:59 PM |
#31 |
| -
I think I worked on that project |
XemaSab |
Aug-13-08 09:57 PM |
#50 |
| -
Maybe you should work for UCAN. |
bananas |
Aug-15-08 04:47 AM |
#65 |
| -
Big Carbon is coming .n/t |
excess_3 |
Aug-13-08 10:10 PM |
#51 |
Printer-friendly format
Email this thread to a friend
Bookmark this thread