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Reply #33: As pointed out elsewhere in the thread [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
Finishline42 Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread
solar power has the potential to be extremely cheap

Absolutely. As can anything else, provided the appropriate artificial environment.

There is a difference with solar vs coal in that solar cost is 95% upfront and coal is a lot less but then you have the cost of coal that is not a fixed cost. Plus, what are the subsidies on the mining and transportation of coal? True cost of coal is a difficult number to pin down.

With solar - at some point - you reach a break even point - where the income from the power generated pays off the investment - how much longer will the plant be productive?

With a coal plant - that break even point is reached quicker for the equipment, but the cost of coal and operational costs are a major part of the cost of power and have increased consistently over time.
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  -Fighting Big Solar: Environmentalists clash over paving the desert in order to save the planet OKIsItJustMe  Aug-12-08 05:07 PM   #0 
  - There is no risk free energy.  phantom power   Aug-12-08 05:08 PM   #1 
  - I might get flamed for this  texastoast   Aug-12-08 05:14 PM   #2 
  - Wait until we get around to a discussion of where to dump the waste.  NNadir   Aug-12-08 05:27 PM   #3 
  - Solar Waste?  qwlauren35   Aug-12-08 06:07 PM   #4 
  - Well, here's an example:  phantom power   Aug-12-08 06:10 PM   #5 
  - This is NOT a joke.  NNadir   Aug-12-08 06:14 PM   #6 
     - True, there is waste  texastoast   Aug-12-08 06:20 PM   #7 
        - There has been whiz bang technology announced every 10 minutes connected with solar electricity.  NNadir   Aug-12-08 06:24 PM   #8 
           - Maybe this time is different  texastoast   Aug-13-08 11:46 AM   #28 
  - You ever seen a tar sands mine?  n2doc   Aug-12-08 08:21 PM   #11 
  - How about Yucca Mountain?  tinrobot   Aug-13-08 12:14 AM   #20 
  - Why does this solar energy cost 15 to 17 cents?  SnoopDog   Aug-12-08 07:25 PM   #9 
  - Because solar cells are not free  jberryhill   Aug-12-08 09:13 PM   #12 
  - What?  SnoopDog   Aug-12-08 09:29 PM   #13 
     - First, let's decide which technologies you want to compare, and then we can compare them...  jberryhill   Aug-12-08 10:29 PM   #14 
     - Ok thanks anyway...?  SnoopDog   Aug-12-08 10:42 PM   #16 
     - "COST PER KW"  jberryhill   Aug-12-08 11:13 PM   #17 
     - Nanosolar thin film panels are down to $0.95/watt with 14% CF. nt  kristopher   Aug-13-08 12:16 AM   #21 
     - Okay, here's the cost structure  jberryhill   Aug-12-08 11:51 PM   #18 
        - coal jumped to nearly $100/s.t. this year and carbon caps are yet to come. nt  kristopher   Aug-13-08 12:18 AM   #22 
        - Your cost accounting is too simplistic  HamdenRice   Aug-13-08 10:47 AM   #25 
        - No shit, really?  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 11:10 AM   #26 
           - "can be compared in $/Watt."  HamdenRice   Aug-13-08 12:21 PM   #30 
              - "Fundamentally flawed"  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 02:07 PM   #37 
                 - Unfortunately, half the people in this forum don't know the difference ...  oldhippie   Aug-13-08 06:51 PM   #46 
                    - Ok, you are an experienced EE person, so I ask you...  SnoopDog   Aug-13-08 08:12 PM   #48 
                       - I'll give it a shot ...........  oldhippie   Aug-13-08 09:50 PM   #49 
                          - Thanks...  SnoopDog   Aug-13-08 10:19 PM   #52 
                             - You've actually taken the wrong message away from the explanation  kristopher   Aug-14-08 04:54 AM   #54 
        - So 30 years ago solar wasn't feasible? I'm shocked!  Indenturedebtor   Aug-15-08 06:50 AM   #66 
     - So if we use more realistic numbers  Finishline42   Aug-13-08 05:05 PM   #43 
     - You are asking an excellent question. Don't let the "smarter than thou" types throw you off.  HamdenRice   Aug-13-08 10:27 AM   #23 
        - "if government industrial policy picks up the investment costs"  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 11:16 AM   #27 
        - How much did your first pc cost?  HamdenRice   Aug-13-08 12:17 PM   #29 
        - Hamden, you are missing the point  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 02:04 PM   #36 
        - As pointed out elsewhere in the thread  Finishline42   Aug-13-08 01:31 PM   #33 
           - Excellent points, all nt  HamdenRice   Aug-14-08 08:37 AM   #56 
        - I'm trying not to let the "smarter than thou" types throw me off  wtmusic   Aug-13-08 01:08 PM   #32 
        - Providing numbers is false certainty if the numbers are garbage  HamdenRice   Aug-13-08 02:32 PM   #39 
           - okay, then you don't want to explain the difference betwen $/W and $/Wh /nt  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 04:36 PM   #40 
           - OK, point taken.  wtmusic   Aug-13-08 04:39 PM   #42 
        - Thanks for your response. Still doesn't add up - at least to me...  SnoopDog   Aug-13-08 01:40 PM   #34 
           - Hamden, do you see what I mean?  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 02:00 PM   #35 
              - Well now Doctor....  SnoopDog   Aug-13-08 02:14 PM   #38 
              - Well if you know the difference  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 04:37 PM   #41 
              - That isn't correct, JB.  kristopher   Aug-13-08 06:05 PM   #44 
              - I'm aware of what goes into the charge on the bill....  jberryhill   Aug-13-08 07:55 PM   #47 
                 - Don't take offense...  kristopher   Aug-14-08 05:01 AM   #55 
                 - You made a good point, so no need to take offense, but ...  HamdenRice   Aug-14-08 08:38 AM   #57 
              - Thank you for your common sense.  ChazII   Aug-16-08 03:06 AM   #73 
  - Solar thermal plants...not PV panels  Fledermaus   Aug-14-08 12:08 AM   #53 
  - That waste is from producing photovoltaic panels  caraher   Aug-12-08 08:08 PM   #10 
  - Steam engines are not a "young technology" /nt  jberryhill   Aug-12-08 10:34 PM   #15 
  - The energy payback on solar PV is between 1-4 years  kristopher   Aug-13-08 12:12 AM   #19 
     - Exactly  Nederland   Aug-13-08 10:44 AM   #24 
     - Which is where V2G enters the picture.  kristopher   Aug-13-08 06:09 PM   #45 
        - That would be very nice...  Nederland   Aug-14-08 03:11 PM   #58 
           - How do you make that determination?  kristopher   Aug-14-08 03:48 PM   #59 
              - The big difference is technology type  Nederland   Aug-14-08 04:06 PM   #60 
              - We will see, won't we. nt  kristopher   Aug-14-08 11:38 PM   #63 
              - That is not the problem  Finishline42   Aug-15-08 09:57 AM   #67 
                 - Apparently you don't know what the term "Marginal Cost" means  Nederland   Aug-15-08 10:41 AM   #68 
                    - Yes the marginal cost of the materials for batteries are higher  Finishline42   Aug-15-08 12:27 PM   #69 
                       - Yes  Nederland   Aug-15-08 12:35 PM   #70 
                          - You might want to adjust your expectations for the batteries  kristopher   Aug-15-08 10:37 PM   #72 
              - Look at the history of television sets  Nederland   Aug-14-08 07:06 PM   #62 
     - Hmmm... OK, I think I know what the issue was with the sources I'm remembering  caraher   Aug-14-08 06:57 PM   #61 
        - My guess was that you had crossed energy and monetary paybacks. nt  kristopher   Aug-15-08 12:03 AM   #64 
           - I know it wasn't money  caraher   Aug-15-08 09:48 PM   #71 
  - The solar power cartel gets a taste of NIMBY  wtmusic   Aug-13-08 12:59 PM   #31 
  - I think I worked on that project  XemaSab   Aug-13-08 09:57 PM   #50 
     - Maybe you should work for UCAN.  bananas   Aug-15-08 04:47 AM   #65 
  - Big Carbon is coming .n/t  excess_3   Aug-13-08 10:10 PM   #51 
 

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