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Reply #48: That's the problem with ideology [View All]

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. That's the problem with ideology
Your entire post (excepting one sentence I've addressed below) is irrelevant to the point at hand. Instead of looking objectively at the benefits and costs of available solutions you resort to an inane rant centered on beliefs you have about the nature of government. Those beliefs may or may not be generally true, however they say absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of any given solution. What we do know is that the past 28 years has seen the right employ that framework over valid analysis and in the process they have screwed the pooch in every single policy area they've attacked.

Producing electricity with photovoltaics (PV) emits no pollution, produces no greenhouse gases,
and uses no finite fossil fuel resources. These are great environmental benefits, but just as we say
that it takes money to make money, it also takes energy to save energy. This concept is captured by
the term “energy payback,” or how long a PV system must operate to recover the energy—and
associated generation of pollution and CO2—that went into making the system in the first place.
Energy payback estimates for rooftop PV systems boil down to 4, 3, 2, and 1 years: 4 years for
systems using current multicrystalline-silicon PV modules, 3 years for current thin-film modules,
2 years for future multicrystalline modules, and 1 year for future thin-film modules. With energy
paybacks of 1–4 years and assumed life expectancies of 30 years, 87% to 97% of the energy that
PV systems generate will be free of pollution, greenhouse gases, and depletion of resources. Let’s
take a look at how the 4-3-2-1 paybacks were estimated for current and future PV systems.
- NREL Report No. NREL/FS-520-24619

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  -Big Coal Fires Back Over James Hansen’s Criminal Complaint kgrandia  Jun-25-08 10:20 PM   #0 
  - Burning Fossil Fuels is OVER . . . it's already suicidal ---  defendandprotect   Jun-25-08 10:36 PM   #1 
  - And Peabody  kgrandia   Jun-25-08 10:41 PM   #2 
  - Oh, we can make things worse.  tom_paine   Jun-26-08 07:35 AM   #5 
  - People are wondering about Obama's intent  kristopher   Jun-25-08 10:53 PM   #3 
     - Maybe if the money  DiktatrW   Jun-25-08 11:15 PM   #4 
     - How about making Electric Cars . . .!!!  defendandprotect   Jun-26-08 02:24 PM   #7 
        - I like that idea.  DiktatrW   Jun-26-08 05:40 PM   #8 
        - If burning fossil fuel is suicidal, how will electric cars help?  Howzit   Jun-26-08 08:40 PM   #9 
           - I applaud your suggestion that we walk more...  kristopher   Jun-26-08 09:00 PM   #10 
           - The Tesla is interesting and if they find many buyers, more power to them  Howzit   Jun-26-08 11:10 PM   #14 
              - Electric cars are cleaner even when powered by coal  wtmusic   Jun-27-08 09:59 AM   #17 
              - I see you prefer to ignorance to having your beliefs challenged  kristopher   Jun-27-08 10:45 AM   #18 
                 - I am responsible for my own ignorance  Howzit   Jun-27-08 01:31 PM   #22 
                    - Los Angeles' current capacity can accept 2 million electric cars  wtmusic   Jun-27-08 02:01 PM   #23 
                    - There is enough excess capacity in the grid  kristopher   Jun-27-08 02:13 PM   #24 
                       - Is the Tesla the right vehicle to promote electric cars?  Howzit   Jun-28-08 07:06 PM   #26 
                          - Tesla is 'proof of concept'  kristopher   Jun-28-08 11:04 PM   #28 
                          - The paper on sustainable energy can be read in small chunks from  Howzit   Jun-29-08 06:36 AM   #30 
                             - Now you are going into another area you clearly know little about  kristopher   Jun-29-08 12:11 PM   #31 
                             - If studies on climate change are not founded on raw weather station data  Howzit   Jun-29-08 03:55 PM   #34 
                                - You are over simplifying the climate issue  kristopher   Jun-29-08 07:04 PM   #35 
                             - OK I read the executive summary  kristopher   Jun-29-08 10:26 PM   #37 
                                - I think the reason south facing PV roof placements were used in the author's analysis  Howzit   Jun-30-08 05:10 AM   #38 
                                   - That much is self evident.  kristopher   Jun-30-08 11:41 AM   #39 
                                      - "you recommended it repeatedly with the implication that it formed the basis of your thinking "  Howzit   Jun-30-08 01:38 PM   #42 
                                         - Determine the requirenement based on what it is you expect to accomplish  kristopher   Jun-30-08 02:09 PM   #43 
                                            - "why you take it as a given that the individual should be responsible for paying for the panels. "  Howzit   Jun-30-08 09:22 PM   #44 
                                               - OK  kristopher   Jul-01-08 12:21 AM   #45 
                                               - "Never forget the Law of Unintended Consequences"  Howzit   Jul-01-08 01:10 AM   #46 
                                               - That's the problem with ideology  kristopher   Jul-01-08 03:16 PM   #48 
                                               - A heck of a good return on investment  Howzit   Jul-01-08 09:02 PM   #50 
                                               - The dollars don't correlete to the energy. nt  kristopher   Jul-01-08 09:09 PM   #51 
                                               - Isn't the energy worth a certain number of dollars per kW hour?  Howzit   Jul-01-08 09:21 PM   #52 
                                               - That can be a complex question.  kristopher   Jul-01-08 10:47 PM   #53 
                                               - Some people communicate more clearly than others  Howzit   Jul-01-08 01:26 AM   #47 
                                               - Tax reductions on all forms of energy for everyone!  Howzit   Jul-01-08 08:58 PM   #49 
                          - "O" For the "P"  bobbolink   Jun-29-08 02:35 PM   #33 
                             - Electric transportation  kristopher   Jun-29-08 07:12 PM   #36 
                                - And you think name-calling enhances your position?  bobbolink   Jun-30-08 12:38 PM   #40 
                                   - Name calling?  kristopher   Jun-30-08 01:19 PM   #41 
           - First of all, we don't need a "grid" and dragging electricity across 15 states . . .  defendandprotect   Jun-26-08 10:20 PM   #11 
           - OK; So wind and solar power are so obvious  Howzit   Jun-26-08 10:58 PM   #13 
              - Always 20 years away in the minds of those promoting the Republican energy plan, you mean.  kristopher   Jun-27-08 11:16 AM   #20 
              - humorous . . .  defendandprotect   Jun-27-08 12:53 PM   #21 
           - If CO2 reduction is your goal, electric cars may not yet be much better than cars burning gasoline.  Howzit   Jun-28-08 09:44 PM   #27 
              - Why are you replying to yourself?  kristopher   Jun-29-08 12:37 PM   #32 
     - Very interesting link. I feel compelled to point out that correlation does not equal causation.  tom_paine   Jun-26-08 07:43 AM   #6 
     - It's good to be explicit.  kristopher   Jun-26-08 10:41 PM   #12 
        - What aspect of Obama's plans are going to put all 85,000 coal workers out of work?  tom_paine   Jun-27-08 08:09 AM   #16 
           - "Clean coal" with "carbon sequestration"  kristopher   Jun-27-08 10:59 AM   #19 
              - Understood. Thanks. But if I am reading your post correctly, there's no  tom_paine   Jun-27-08 03:20 PM   #25 
                 - I'll get a copy, thanks.  kristopher   Jun-28-08 11:11 PM   #29 
     - An op-ed  kgrandia   Jun-26-08 11:29 PM   #15 
 

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