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Reply #78: The question regarded Dean. What do you have against Ted Kennedy? [View All]

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-03 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. The question regarded Dean. What do you have against Ted Kennedy?
Do tell, my friend. I'm not afraid of ideas or people.

In fact, I'm Liberal and proud. I'm also proud of what Ted Kennedy has done for this country.

Dean is another matter. I don't recall him doing anything for anybody other than himself and his cronies.

Unlike most of his supporters, I also can recognize what Dean is. Dean is basically, at heart and in deed, a moderate Republican shooting his mouth off as a Democrat.

Don't take my word for it, here's what someone who knows said (in case you don't know, Jim Farrell was Paul Wellstone's press spokesman):

Dean's No Wellstone

by Jim Farrell

Lately, presidential contender Howard Dean has been likening himself to the late Senator Paul Wellstone. Out on the stump, Dean has used a phrase that Wellstone long employed--that we need candidates who "represent the democratic wing of the Democratic Party." Before audiences of progressives and party activists, it is reportedly Governor Dean's best applause line. No wonder. The Democratic rank and file yearn for populist leadership based on a firm commitment to progressive policies.

Dean acknowledges that his own politics are considerably less "liberal" than Wellstone's but that he identifies with the senator's passion and commitment to beliefs. Certainly, Dean's campaign has many of the trappings of progressive politics. Dean himself is an upstart and outsider, and his call for a grassroots campaign to "take back America" sounds progressive.

But as Wellstone frequently said, it's not the thought that counts but the deed. So how do the records of the two men compare? Wellstone's history included both activism and intellectual support for civil rights, and he took that same spirit to his first Senate election and ran against big money in politics. In the Senate, Wellstone stood for economic and social justice. He supported expanding collective-bargaining rights and universal healthcare. He opposed the death penalty because it is inequitably applied to minorities and the poor. And he was the only senator up for re-election to vote against the so-called Welfare Reform Act in 1996, because he believed it punished children and played into stereotypes of single women on welfare. Wellstone also voted no on the October Iraq war resolution, following a lifetime of advocating for peace and for a US role in the world that fostered democracy and used military intervention as a last resort.

While Dean may share some measure of Wellstone's passion, his record and his agenda are very different. As governor of Vermont, Dean targeted for elimination the public-financing provision of the state's campaign finance law--a law similar to the one Wellstone pushed in the Senate. In February 2002, Dean said his big donors are given special access. While Wellstone fought for people on welfare, Dean said some welfare recipients "don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working" and scaled back Vermont's welfare program, reducing cash benefits and imposing strict time limits on single mothers receiving welfare assistance.

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  -Ted Kennedy will explain it to those of you blm  Nov-28-03 01:51 PM   #0 
  - John Kerry voted for the war  RogueTrooper   Nov-28-03 01:54 PM   #1 
  - What does that mean?  sandnsea   Nov-28-03 02:04 PM   #2 
  - it means this very weak reasoning  NewYorkerfromMass   Dec-02-03 12:18 PM   #117 
  - Typical response. Stick your head in the sand.  blm   Nov-28-03 02:39 PM   #3 
  - Kerry did not vote for the war. The resolutions is mislabeled and Dean is  genius   Nov-28-03 02:51 PM   #4 
  - Dennis - 2002  sandnsea   Nov-28-03 03:37 PM   #5 
  - Lie. Dean has always opposed war on the grounds it came about  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 07:06 PM   #37 
  - That is a lie...  Andromeda   Dec-01-03 08:46 PM   #95 
  - Fundamentally, this issue has been judged already  LuminousX   Nov-28-03 04:46 PM   #6 
  - While Dean and his supporters use deception to beat Kerry up on IWR?  blm   Nov-28-03 05:34 PM   #7 
     - The more he (actually he has stopped) defends, the more it just looks bad  LuminousX   Nov-28-03 06:16 PM   #9 
     - I'll talk about it every time they bring it up.  Padraig18   Nov-28-03 06:20 PM   #10 
        - Thanks to Dean's deception and the media's complicity.  blm   Nov-28-03 06:32 PM   #12 
           - No deception--- clear differences.  Padraig18   Nov-28-03 06:40 PM   #14 
              - Good. The best way to fight lies and memes is to refute them.  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 07:09 PM   #39 
              - It is amazing to watch.......  virtualobserver   Dec-01-03 07:06 AM   #54 
              - Name the difference that Dean has stated.  blm   Dec-01-03 06:27 PM   #87 
              - He he...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 07:47 PM   #90 
     - You know what?  Northwind   Nov-29-03 11:45 AM   #25 
     - Actually Kerry is tanking with no help from the IWR issue.  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 07:08 PM   #38 
  - Oh, bullshit!  Padraig18   Nov-28-03 06:03 PM   #8 
  - Dean still supported Biden-Lugar. Did he not understand it?  blm   Nov-28-03 06:30 PM   #11 
  - Since it didn't pass,...  Padraig18   Nov-28-03 06:35 PM   #13 
     - No spinning Dean out of his deliberate deception.  blm   Nov-29-03 11:44 AM   #24 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-30-03 04:16 PM   #29 
  - Biden-Lugar supported war  sandnsea   Nov-28-03 07:53 PM   #15 
  - Keep telling yourselves that.  Padraig18   Nov-28-03 08:10 PM   #16 
     - People are misinformed  sandnsea   Nov-29-03 01:23 AM   #18 
        - Would that be the same Bush-enabling Gephart who voted FOR IWR?  Padraig18   Nov-29-03 09:27 AM   #20 
           - He wasn't  sandnsea   Nov-29-03 11:53 AM   #26 
              - Blaming Dean for the US governments crappy intelligence. Wow.  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 04:20 PM   #30 
                 - Nor anyone else  sandnsea   Nov-30-03 04:22 PM   #32 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-30-03 04:26 PM   #34 
                       - Bush lied  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 12:13 AM   #49 
                          - What I want to know......  virtualobserver   Dec-01-03 07:08 AM   #55 
                             - Run for President then  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 02:32 PM   #67 
  - Dean's a liar.  Octafish   Nov-29-03 10:02 AM   #22 
     - "If I just keep repeating it, it will come true"  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 04:22 PM   # 
        - IOIWT: "I'm from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party."  Octafish   Dec-01-03 09:57 PM   #98 
           - Vietnam war kept me "free"? LOL!!  Scott Lee   Dec-03-03 09:39 PM   #130 
  - who ordered the heaping pile of condescension?  babzilla   Nov-28-03 08:53 PM   #17 
  - If you have already "figured out Dean's deception,"  DemBones DemBones   Nov-29-03 07:10 AM   #19 
  - Kerry's been to war. He lost six friends in Vietnam.  Octafish   Nov-29-03 10:00 AM   #21 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-29-03 10:15 AM   #23 
     - He did more than that  sandnsea   Nov-29-03 12:13 PM   #27 
     - Lie.  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 04:29 PM   #35 
     - FACT: Howard Dean got out of the draft for a bad back and went SKIING!  Octafish   Dec-01-03 12:26 AM   #50 
        - so, Dean brought evidence of a diagnosed condition to the draft board  virtualobserver   Dec-01-03 07:14 AM   #56 
        - No. Self-preservation is not "crazy." Remember Catch-22?  Octafish   Dec-01-03 07:40 AM   #57 
           - then why are Kerry supporters calling Dean a coward?  virtualobserver   Dec-01-03 08:49 AM   #58 
              - Great questions, yours. You and all good people deserve answers.  Octafish   Dec-01-03 10:19 PM   #100 
                 - COME ON!!, it doesn't.  peaceandjustice   Dec-03-03 09:06 AM   #128 
        - If you don't like the law, change it. Dean abided by it.  Scott Lee   Dec-03-03 09:41 PM   #131 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-30-03 08:00 PM   #44 
        - An appt. with the draft board  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 01:32 AM   #51 
     - Yeah. Dean's a coward.  Octafish   Nov-30-03 11:16 PM   #45 
     - And now he's gonna lose a campaign.  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 07:11 PM   #40 
     - No. John Kerry has fought the Bush Organized Crime Family...  Octafish   Nov-30-03 11:18 PM   #46 
        - He did it all?  drfemoe   Dec-01-03 10:58 PM   #102 
        - Kerry modeled his own career after JFK...  Octafish   Dec-02-03 01:12 PM   #119 
        - And he off and on supports them too. For which they are grateful.  Scott Lee   Dec-03-03 09:42 PM   #132 
     - Actually  kayob1   Dec-02-03 05:27 PM   #123 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-30-03 04:14 PM   #28 
  - Either Ted Kennedy is lying, or Dean is being deceptive.  blm   Nov-30-03 04:22 PM   #31 
     - Ted Kennedy is entitled to his opinions. That does not make them fact  Scott Lee   Nov-30-03 04:24 PM   #33 
     - Opinions are like assholes, even Teddy's opinions:  Padraig18   Nov-30-03 05:09 PM   #36 
        - Ted Kennedy has a record of accomplishment. What's Dean ever done?  Octafish   Nov-30-03 11:24 PM   #47 
           - Aside from 5 1/2 successful terms as Governor of VT?  Padraig18   Dec-01-03 02:21 PM   #64 
           - The question regarded Dean. What do you have against Ted Kennedy?  Octafish   Dec-01-03 04:16 PM   #78 
              - I have nothing 'against' Ted Kennedy, per se.  Padraig18   Dec-01-03 05:31 PM   #84 
                 - I don't need anybody to dump on Dean.  Octafish   Dec-01-03 10:05 PM   #99 
                    - Right, Dean brought the X-Rays to make sure...  MrWiggles   Dec-01-03 10:41 PM   #101 
                    - Who said you needed permission?  Padraig18   Dec-02-03 05:12 AM   #110 
                    - What Dean has done  peaceandjustice   Dec-03-03 09:12 AM   #129 
           - Actually he was governor of Vermont for many terms.  Scott Lee   Dec-03-03 09:44 PM   #133 
     - I give up  sandnsea   Nov-30-03 07:57 PM   #42 
     - Neither. Your missing the point of B/L...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 10:10 AM   #60 
        - You believed Bush when he said that? He just wanted the vote over with.  blm   Dec-01-03 02:28 PM   #65 
           - Nope... Read the B/L ammendment, and then tell me it's the same as  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 02:30 PM   #66 
              - I never said it was the same and there was NO blank check in IWR.  blm   Dec-01-03 08:24 PM   #94 
                 - I never thought B/L forced * back to congress first...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 11:35 PM   #103 
                    - Not the way Dean has used it.  blm   Dec-02-03 12:52 PM   #118 
  - This entire article is about the Gep-Lieberman Resolution  mzmolly   Nov-30-03 07:42 PM   #41 
  - "Bush Criticizes Draft Congressional Resolution on Iraq"  mzmolly   Nov-30-03 07:58 PM   #43 
  - It limited the enforcement of UN resolutions  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 12:12 AM   #48 
     - Biden Lugar required several things...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 10:07 AM   #59 
        - Bush did all that  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 02:44 PM   #69 
           - Bush did not 'do all that'...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 02:50 PM   #70 
              - I have  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 04:05 PM   #75 
                 - We would be home by now, as there are no weapons and that's  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 05:17 PM   #83 
                    - We would not be home by now  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 06:00 PM   #86 
                       - Did you miss the part where Iraq was cooperating according to the UN???  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 07:42 PM   #89 
                          - How do you figure?  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 08:53 PM   #96 
                             - I'll let the words of Kerry and * speak for themselves.  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 11:57 PM   #104 
                                - against this war...  sandnsea   Dec-02-03 12:11 AM   #106 
                                   - Show me where Dean says he didn't support Biden/Lugar....  mzmolly   Dec-02-03 12:13 AM   #107 
                                      - He DID support Biden-Lugar  sandnsea   Dec-02-03 12:52 AM   #108 
                                         - Spin, spin oh desperate spin....  mzmolly   Dec-02-03 09:08 AM   #111 
                                            - Well you admit it  sandnsea   Dec-02-03 01:34 PM   #121 
  - Kerry was clearly hedging his bets that the Iraq war would be successful  Classical_Liberal   Dec-01-03 02:34 AM   #52 
  - Why would you say that?  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 03:15 AM   #53 
  - Absolutely.  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 10:28 AM   #62 
     - Really? That's why he worked with Clinton on regime change for Iraq in 98?  blm   Dec-02-03 05:58 PM   #124 
  - "ACLU Applauds Constitutional Checks in New Iraq Compromise "  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 10:16 AM   #61 
  - That all happened anyway  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 02:41 PM   #68 
     - BULL, we went in and 'changed the regime!!'  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 02:55 PM   #71 
     - An article for your review  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 03:14 PM   #72 
        - This is an editorial  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 04:03 PM   #74 
           - The outcome would have been the same????!!!!  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 05:08 PM   #82 
  - Yes, Dean is the perceived front runner.  TopesJunkie   Dec-01-03 10:40 AM   #63 
  - By the way, I just learned that Kerry saw the difference between the  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 03:39 PM   #73 
  - No kidding, B-L was the better bill, but Dean's deception  blm   Dec-01-03 04:12 PM   #76 
  - Dean has not been deceptive. Was there a difference between B/L  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 04:52 PM   #79 
     - Dean was deceptive in his REASON for not supporting IWR.  blm   Dec-01-03 05:56 PM   #85 
        - Bull...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 07:32 PM   #88 
           - Name the differences Dean talked about when he slammed the others.  blm   Dec-01-03 07:54 PM   #91 
              - One phrase...  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 08:03 PM   #92 
                 - Tell it to Teddy  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 08:59 PM   #97 
                 - Kennedy was speaking about the Gep - Lieberman Rez  mzmolly   Dec-02-03 12:06 AM   #105 
                    - jeez  sandnsea   Dec-02-03 12:56 AM   #109 
                       - Once again, Dean never claimed to be anti-war...  mzmolly   Dec-02-03 09:19 AM   #112 
                          - Ignore facts if you like  sandnsea   Dec-02-03 01:28 PM   #120 
                 - You can't do it because you know Dean's deception worked for him.  blm   Dec-02-03 10:09 AM   #114 
                    - you mean like Kerry's did for him?  Scott Lee   Dec-02-03 09:13 PM   #126 
                       - No, he acknowledged voting for the Patriot Act, but Dean doesn't  blm   Dec-02-03 10:10 PM   #127 
                          - Dean wasn't in Congress to vote on the IWR.  Scott Lee   Dec-03-03 09:46 PM   #134 
  - Bush did this anyway  sandnsea   Dec-01-03 04:12 PM   #77 
     - dup  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 04:55 PM   #80 
     - "The resolution would have been preferable..."  mzmolly   Dec-01-03 04:56 PM   #81 
  - I love it.  GloriaSmith   Dec-01-03 08:13 PM   #93 
  - All of this would be significantly more interesting...  helleborient   Dec-02-03 09:28 AM   #113 
     - Let's reward the dishonest politician. Just because the media allows him  blm   Dec-02-03 10:13 AM   #115 
        - It must be miserable living life in utter fear of the media...  helleborient   Dec-02-03 10:21 AM   #116 
           - Not fear...awareness. And Dean isn't Bill Clinton  blm   Dec-02-03 01:35 PM   #122 
              - Good thing. Clinton couldn't get elected in today's climate.  Scott Lee   Dec-02-03 09:11 PM   #125 

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