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Reply #20: You have a very poor understanding of forgiveness. [View All]

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-05-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You have a very poor understanding of forgiveness.
Edited on Fri Jun-05-09 02:41 PM by Rabrrrrrr
One that gets ramped out here every time there's some situation where people can get all self-righteous and holier-than-thou and "I'm the most tolerant person in the world, but..." whatever the self-righteous cause du jour happens to be.

Forgiveness most absolutely does not imply remorse. It does not demand penance, an apology, nor retribution. It does not ask for contrition, self-abuse, or conditions.

I'm amazed at the number of people on DU who rag on the republicans/freepers/rightwing for their lack of empathy, their disdain for life, their refusal to love their neighbor and so forth, and yet are also rife with bile and hate and a complete inability to empathize, forgive, or sometimes even to cut a person an even break.

Sometimes the freepers and the so-called progressives are distinguishable not by actions and basic philosophy (as it should be) but solely by the shit that they cast their humanity aside for so they can stew in the bile of fundamentalist purity and feeling holier than everyone else. "Oh, he's dehumanizing brown people - must be a freeper. Oh, he's dehumanizing (cause du jour) - he must be a progressive".

We're supposed to be the side of empathy, forgiveness, mercy, understanding - I am ashamed, and deeply, deeply saddened when I see judgmental, hate-filled inhuman shit like you posted, and I wonder if we as a race will ever be able to crawl out of the garbage and evolve. A few of us are doing it, but it's gonna take a hell of a lot more of us to get there, and right now I don't see it happening.

We get massive applause for Obama's speech yesterday for it's inclusive, inspiring, all-humanity perspective, and then today are unquenchable bonfires of hatred of the same sort that Obama condemned.

What you are talking about is as far away from forgiveness (as you say you are talking about) as Charles Manson is from Jesus. You're talking retribution, vengeance, and the person-hood raping violence of dehumanization.

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  -When I was 24, I shot my brother. travelingtypist  Jun-05-09 12:05 PM   #0 
  - He did murder his child -- shaken baby syndrome is child abuse  LostinVA   Jun-05-09 12:09 PM   #1 
  - I have to agree with Lost  Rising Phoenix   Jun-05-09 12:13 PM   #5 
  - There's a lot of truth in this. Please consider it posting in GD so it can go to the Greatest page.  rug   Jun-05-09 12:10 PM   #2 
  - We shall all stand in judgement one day. It's inevitably not our "right" to be the judges of people  backtoblue   Jun-05-09 12:10 PM   #3 
  - No we won't.  arcadian   Jun-05-09 02:01 PM   #16 
  - 1. No we won't.  Deep13   Jun-05-09 03:28 PM   #29 
  - I think I can safely say that I'll never murder a baby  LostinVA   Jun-05-09 05:43 PM   #43 
  - But you'll go right ahead undermine the sacred institution of marriage  Orrex   Jun-06-09 12:32 AM   #54 
     - Well duh -- I have to sin somehow, right???  LostinVA   Jun-06-09 06:33 AM   #58 
  - 1. You have no idea of post-death anything; 2. Earthly crime demands earthly justice.  WinkyDink   Jun-06-09 05:37 AM   #56 
  - You shot your brother because he was yelling at you in your car?  mainegreen   Jun-05-09 12:13 PM   #4 
  - Yeah, seriously  HarukaTheTrophyWife   Jun-05-09 12:16 PM   #6 
  - No kidding. It's not like it was an accidental shooting, where he didn't know the gun was loaded ...  Arugula Latte   Jun-05-09 12:21 PM   #7 
     - She.  marzipanni   Jun-05-09 04:09 PM   #36 
        - Hmmm ... Okay. The plot thickens.  Arugula Latte   Jun-05-09 09:44 PM   #49 
  - There is no comparison that I can see in these two incidents.  Arkansas Granny   Jun-05-09 12:51 PM   #8 
  - Sounds like you're guilty of attempted murder, then. Did your brother recover?  Orrex   Jun-05-09 01:05 PM   #9 
  - He doesn't need my forgiveness. And, honestly, I wouldn't give it.  Midlodemocrat   Jun-05-09 01:06 PM   #10 
  - Thank you for sharing your story.  Gormy Cuss   Jun-05-09 01:30 PM   #11 
  - I don't sense much contrition for that act in your post.  redqueen   Jun-05-09 01:38 PM   #12 
  - Yea, what redqueen said.  SKKY   Jun-05-09 01:46 PM   #13 
  - Most of the time, it is best not to judge others.  Jamastiene   Jun-05-09 01:57 PM   #14 
  - "Forgiveness" is an overrated virtue  WildEyedLiberal   Jun-05-09 02:00 PM   #15 
  - You have a very poor understanding of forgiveness.  Rabrrrrrr   Jun-05-09 02:34 PM   #20 
  - I think she meant that the murderer's request for forgiveness  Midlodemocrat   Jun-05-09 02:40 PM   #21 
  - Yes, that is what I meant, thank you  WildEyedLiberal   Jun-05-09 02:50 PM   #23 
  - Huh?  WildEyedLiberal   Jun-05-09 03:02 PM   #24 
  - Forgiveness is not necessarily contingent on anyone expressing remorse or asking to be forgiven.  Heidi   Jun-06-09 07:28 AM   #60 
     - Hey darling!!!!!  WildEyedLiberal   Jun-06-09 03:27 PM   #69 
  - That kind of forgiveness is the ideal.  redqueen   Jun-05-09 03:18 PM   #26 
  - +112 - 87  rug   Jun-05-09 05:30 PM   #40 
  - There are indeed some things that may be unforgivable  Mythsaje   Jun-06-09 03:49 PM   #72 
     - It's hard for any sane and decent person to tolerate  sammythecat   Jun-06-09 11:28 PM   #88 
  - forgiveness can be very liberating  AllenVanAllen   Jun-05-09 05:31 PM   #41 
  - And they put pot smokers in jail?  Starbucks Anarchist   Jun-05-09 02:06 PM   #17 
  - Well, sure.  Orrex   Jun-05-09 11:58 PM   #53 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-05-09 02:07 PM   #18 
  - Thanks for sharing - despite the replies  Inchworm   Jun-05-09 02:15 PM   #19 
  - My husband's brother did despicable things to him when they were growing up.  Inspired   Jun-06-09 06:23 AM   #57 
     - and I love you  Inchworm   Jun-07-09 12:04 AM   #93 
  - Whenever I wanted my brother to leave me alone, I punched him in his balls  TK421   Jun-05-09 02:45 PM   #22 
  - ...ouch...  Adsos Letter   Jun-05-09 03:30 PM   #30 
  - Maybe  MissHoneychurch   Jun-05-09 03:31 PM   #31 
  - Hello MissHoneychurch!  Adsos Letter   Jun-05-09 03:44 PM   #33 
     - Check your pm  MissHoneychurch   Jun-05-09 03:46 PM   #35 
  - He teased me all the time...and revenge was pretty sweet  TK421   Jun-05-09 03:46 PM   #34 
  - My brothers are mad, there have been stabbings, broken bones from sold objects being thrown...  joshcryer   Jun-05-09 08:58 PM   #48 
     - I love your sig line, btw.....although I imagine it could start some riots in GD  TK421   Jun-05-09 11:36 PM   #50 
  - It was murder and he is a murder  NJmaverick   Jun-05-09 03:05 PM   #25 
  - Unfortunately, the only one capable of granting forgiveness is dead. nt  Deep13   Jun-05-09 03:24 PM   #27 
  - good thing you had that gun "for protection"!  maxsolomon   Jun-05-09 03:27 PM   #28 
  - Were you in Reno?  latebloomer   Jun-05-09 03:37 PM   #32 
  - I get it.  Dora   Jun-05-09 04:12 PM   #37 
  - I didn't get along with my 3 older brothers either.  TEXASYANKEE   Jun-05-09 04:38 PM   #38 
  - The insensitivity of your post is astounding.  BlueIris   Jun-05-09 05:13 PM   #39 
  - +1  LostinVA   Jun-05-09 05:32 PM   #42 
  - +1  Midlodemocrat   Jun-05-09 08:25 PM   #45 
  - You have an extraoridinary definition of vile.  joshcryer   Jun-05-09 08:56 PM   #47 
     - The OP has a casual, cavalier attitude about attempted murder & is dismissive of the child's murder  Orrex   Jun-05-09 11:57 PM   #52 
        - 44-6 (especially the baby's hideous murder)  LostinVA   Jun-06-09 06:35 AM   #59 
  - And if you had not had a gun, what would you have done?  TripleKatPad   Jun-05-09 08:25 PM   #44 
  - I find it highly amusing that so many people here think the OP is male.  joshcryer   Jun-05-09 08:53 PM   #46 
  - +1  Inchworm   Jun-05-09 11:43 PM   #51 
  - Well, I wonder what the statistics are  latebloomer   Jun-06-09 10:42 PM   #86 
  - You should have shut up before you posted this bullshit  nini   Jun-06-09 12:40 AM   #55 
  - the OP had been abused by her brother.  Maine-ah   Jun-06-09 08:00 AM   #61 
     - We know nothing of the nature or extent of the abuse  Orrex   Jun-06-09 08:46 AM   #62 
        - I certainly agree with you,  Maine-ah   Jun-06-09 09:06 AM   #63 
           - No it wasn't  nini   Jun-06-09 12:55 PM   #64 
  - Hi travelingtypist  Haole Girl   Jun-06-09 01:18 PM   #65 
  - He's NOT "any sort of human being"  Zomby Woof   Jun-06-09 01:24 PM   #66 
  - +1  LostinVA   Jun-06-09 01:27 PM   #67 
  - ...  Left Is Write   Jun-06-09 03:28 PM   #70 
  - "Teh stoopid on DU! I can't take it sometimes."  sammythecat   Jun-06-09 11:54 PM   #91 
     - I did not miss the point  Zomby Woof   Jun-07-09 12:02 AM   #92 
  - I'd like to talk to these people.  rug   Jun-06-09 02:50 PM   #68 
  - I like you, rug.  Kali   Jun-06-09 05:37 PM   #74 
  - Yes! Absolutely! They are the model of proper response and attitude.  Rabrrrrrr   Jun-06-09 06:21 PM   #80 
  - hit and run  LostinVA   Jun-06-09 03:47 PM   #71 
  - gee wonder why?  theNotoriousP.I.G.   Jun-06-09 05:52 PM   #75 
     - .  johnnie   Jun-06-09 05:53 PM   #76 
     - No, the OP basically exonerated the baby's father  LostinVA   Jun-06-09 05:58 PM   #77 
        - Sorry to disagree with you  theNotoriousP.I.G.   Jun-06-09 06:05 PM   #79 
           - Good to see you around!  Haole Girl   Jun-06-09 06:56 PM   #82 
           - Thanks!  theNotoriousP.I.G.   Jun-06-09 07:00 PM   #83 
           - thank you for your posts  merh   Jun-06-09 07:44 PM   #84 
           - Thanks for your posts in this thread.  sammythecat   Jun-06-09 10:35 PM   #85 
  - Wasn't going to bump because this has hit a soft spot here. Anyway... link to the baby threads?  joshcryer   Jun-06-09 05:14 PM   #73 
  - the only thread I can find has been deleted.  auntAgonist   Jun-06-09 06:02 PM   #78 
  - check your PM.  Blue Diadem   Jun-06-09 06:29 PM   #81 
  - You've made a claim that you were abused by your brother.  LisaL   Jun-06-09 11:21 PM   #87 
  - I think the point was that even people who commit horrible crimes  Kali   Jun-06-09 11:36 PM   #90 
  - BINGO  Zomby Woof   Jun-07-09 12:07 AM   #94 
     - Thank you, I couldn't say it better  rustydog   Jun-07-09 12:49 AM   #95 
  - Normal people do unnatural things under stress.  Swede   Jun-06-09 11:31 PM   #89 
  - Did we ever find out how the brother--the victim of attempted murder--is doing?  Orrex   Jun-07-09 07:04 AM   #96 
  - Locking.  Danger Mouse   Jun-07-09 07:25 AM   #97 

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