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Reply #19: Asses the crassery [View All]

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Ignoramus Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Asses the crassery
If my use of the word liberal doesn't describe you, then I'm not attacking you. Actually, I'm not trying to start a flame war at all. It's something that I've been waiting for the opportunity to comment on though...

I'm arguing about a label. But, more importantly it's an argument against being "centrist".

Actually, if someone wants to explain how my measure of common usage is off I will find that very interesting. In fact, I'm kind of hoping someone will give me a history lesson indicating the appropriatness of the label liberal in describing people persuing freedom from tyranny.

Ideally, a "conservative" would be a person who is sceptical of propositions. In common usage though, as far as I can tell, people who say they are "a conservative" are people who advocate ignorance of propositions which challenge social norms.

Ideally, "liberal" would mean paying special attention to propositions which challenge social norms.

Both of these describe tendencies only. You could be both liberal and conservative by being both sceptical and curious.

However when labeling people rather than tendencies, they both imply an acceptance of the status-quo, by leaving out the notion of radicalism.

Both conservatives and liberals accept the status-quo. The conservative is resistant to exploring new things, the liberal is curious.

Another way to put it is that liberals and conservatives would start with the idea that common notions are true and than whether they are conservative or liberal depends on their willingness to persue new ideas. Or simpler, conservatives and liberals accept the status quo. Conservatives are unwilling to look at new ideas, and liberals are willing.

A pragmatist instead would start with rejecting (not accepting) the status quo. And then view all the ideas new and old with scepticism. With no firm ground to stand on, the pragmatist then operates based on informed choices.

Now, where I get my sense of common usage is from the media, from reading activist literature and from talking to people.

I'm going to vote for a democrat, because it's practical. But, I'm not "a democrat". Democrats do not seem to be opposed to the idea of a system in which one group of people supports themselves by living off the suffering of another group of people. They want some fixes to such a system, but they do not want to replace the system. In my experience the people who promote a system of exploitation, just one that is less extreme than the current system, instead of maintaining a goal of liberty, distinguish themselves by calling themselves liberal. I describe that as wish-washy.

That probably makes me sound like a ____ist. But, honestly I haven't figured out what a solution is. Meanwhile I just know various things that I'm not. I think I'm not a liberal.
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  -How Liberal are you? Against ME  Jul-22-03 02:13 PM   #0 
  - Hmmm?  unfrigginreal   Jul-22-03 02:17 PM   #1 
  - I'm an 8.  Rainbowreflect   Jul-22-03 02:20 PM   #2 
  - I am sooooooo liberal...  ZenLefty   Jul-22-03 02:25 PM   #3 
  - Off the charts.  greatauntoftriplets   Jul-22-03 02:29 PM   #4 
  - Exceptionally liberal  SOteric   Jul-22-03 02:31 PM   #5 
  - Liberals  jfippse   Jul-22-03 03:15 PM   #15 
  - I'm gonna bookmark this page,  Against ME   Jul-22-03 06:50 PM   #30 
  - Depends on the issue  a_random_joel   Jul-22-03 02:32 PM   #6 
  - NA  Ignoramus   Jul-22-03 02:32 PM   #7 
  - What a bizarre definition of a 'liberal'  SOteric   Jul-22-03 02:37 PM   #10 
  - example  Ignoramus   Jul-22-03 05:36 PM   #25 
     - Howard Dean is a Democrat  SOteric   Jul-22-03 07:36 PM   #36 
  - Say What?!  a_random_joel   Jul-22-03 02:41 PM   #11 
  - On further reading of your post  a_random_joel   Jul-22-03 02:47 PM   #12 
     - Asses the crassery  Ignoramus   Jul-22-03 04:25 PM   #19 
        - You're sounding a little wishy washy yourself.  a_random_joel   Jul-22-03 05:35 PM   #24 
  - NA  Ignoramus   Jul-22-03 02:36 PM   #8 
  - But aren't all liberals pragmatists?  Against ME   Jul-22-03 06:54 PM   #31 
  - pretty damn  bowens43   Jul-22-03 02:36 PM   #9 
  - Off the chart,  Rainydaze   Jul-22-03 02:52 PM   #13 
  - 25  iluvchicago86   Jul-22-03 03:08 PM   #14 
  - very liberal, not that it matters  Hep   Jul-22-03 03:16 PM   #16 
  - I'll rate by issues:  mvd   Jul-22-03 03:37 PM   #17 
  - Dittoes!  ChillEB   Jul-22-03 05:40 PM   #26 
     - Cool, but..  mvd   Jul-22-03 05:44 PM   #27 
        - There is one instance where I could support the death penalty  mvd   Jul-22-03 06:18 PM   #29 
  - I'm 666.  PittPoliSci   Jul-22-03 04:14 PM   #18 
  - on edit  JohnKleeb   Jul-22-03 04:27 PM   #20 
  - I'm 61659851694981654  leftist_rebel1569   Jul-22-03 04:46 PM   #21 
  - 4  Jonte_1979   Jul-22-03 04:52 PM   #22 
  - You tell me . . .  nedlogg   Jul-22-03 05:21 PM   #23 
  - Sounds about right.  Against ME   Jul-22-03 06:56 PM   #32 
  - I agree with your points  WindRavenX   Jul-23-03 03:45 AM   #44 
  - 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999  Darranar   Jul-22-03 05:47 PM   #28 
  - Sorry, Only goes up to 10  Against ME   Jul-22-03 06:56 PM   #33 
  - Man!  Darranar   Jul-22-03 07:53 PM   #37 
  - hey! you stole my idea  leftist_rebel1569   Jul-22-03 08:46 PM   #38 
  - Let's see...  JaySherman   Jul-22-03 07:30 PM   #34 
  - I'd say an 8  youngred   Jul-22-03 07:33 PM   #35 
  - Lucky 7  Syn_Dem   Jul-22-03 09:16 PM   #39 
  - That's an amazing punk band.  Against ME   Jul-22-03 10:31 PM   #40 
  - 12 n/t  jonnyblitz   Jul-22-03 11:03 PM   #41 
  - I'm not liberal  the_sam   Jul-22-03 11:59 PM   #42 
  - About a 5 or so  gyopsy   Jul-23-03 12:58 AM   #43 

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