Columbia
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Thu Jan-08-04 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #125 |
| 127. A few considerations |
|
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 02:02 AM by Columbia
Although SCOTUS did rule that a sawed off shotgun (restricted by the National Firearms Act) was not covered under the 2nd Amendment, the determination was not that the 2nd Amendment was a collective right. The ruling was that the 2nd Amendment only covered arms that were fit to be carried by a soldier ("ordinary military equipment") and no evidence was presented that a sawed off shotgun was carried as such. Of course, soldiers did carry short barrel shotguns during the Civil War and World War I, but Miller was not able to provide a defense since he had been murdered prior to the SCOTUS hearing.
Another consideration is that Miller himself was not part of the National Guard and if the court had wished, they could have ruled that he was not covered under the 2nd Amendment, but this was not case. The brief does go into length about who comprised the militia (mostly citizens). As such, the 2nd Amendment, in the eyes of the court, is not a protection for states to have a militia (as if the whole people part was not enough as it is).
There is no need to overturn Miller because it already affirms the right for individuals to keep and bear arms that are considered "ordinary military equipment."
So technically, we all have a right to keep and bear a M16A2 assault rifle and it would be constitutional and in keeping with the ruling made on US vs. Miller.
|
| -Does the 2nd Amendment allow private gun ownership? |
Damndifino |
Jan-07-04 12:22 PM |
#0 |
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Constantly mis-defined |
Loonman |
Jan-07-04 12:26 PM |
#1 |
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It's the one amendment that the conservatives interpret liberally. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Jan-07-04 01:03 PM |
#20 |
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The founding fathers didn't write this in stone, they weren't gods |
billbuckhead |
Jan-07-04 12:26 PM |
#2 |
 -
You're right |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:00 PM |
#18 |
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maybe yes maybe no but... |
lib13 |
Jan-07-04 12:28 PM |
#3 |
 -
In the early documents, the writers discussed exactly that. |
cspiguy |
Jan-07-04 12:53 PM |
#13 |
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Heh. |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:10 PM |
#26 |
 -
One man, one rifle |
TheMiddleRoad |
Jan-08-04 02:37 AM |
#133 |
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LOL!!! |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-08-04 03:13 AM |
#134 |
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Ambiguity was necessary to get the Constitution ratified by all 13 |
heidler |
Jan-08-04 03:39 PM |
#153 |
-
By that same line of reasoning... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-09-04 05:28 AM |
#159 |
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Private gun ownership is not allowed... |
Superfly |
Jan-07-04 12:30 PM |
#4 |
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In a word |
MrBenchley |
Jan-07-04 12:30 PM |
#5 |
 -
What does it say... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:18 PM |
#33 |
  -
It says that |
MrBenchley |
Jan-07-04 02:17 PM |
#45 |
 -
inbred supporters believe the Bill of Rights covers individuals? |
Liberal Classic |
Jan-07-04 01:23 PM |
#38 |
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What a pantload..... |
MrBenchley |
Jan-07-04 02:19 PM |
#46 |
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Then explain the recent Stewart ruling... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:19 PM |
#63 |
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It doesn't say anywhere what type of guns allowed |
Bandit |
Jan-07-04 12:33 PM |
#6 |
 -
Actually... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:16 PM |
#31 |
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Gun ownership is as enshrined in the constitution as the right to choose |
dkf |
Jan-07-04 12:33 PM |
#7 |
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It doesn't "allow" anything |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 12:39 PM |
#8 |
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Only Amendment to say "Well Regulated" |
Bandit |
Jan-07-04 12:47 PM |
#10 |
  -
You're entitled to believe whatever bizarre spin you like |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 12:52 PM |
#12 |
   -
See Post # 6 |
Bandit |
Jan-07-04 12:56 PM |
#16 |
  -
remember |
Terwilliger |
Jan-07-04 01:01 PM |
#19 |
  -
"Well regulated" meant "well trained" -- able to behave in a well-defined |
Mairead |
Jan-07-04 01:44 PM |
#43 |
 -
take it for what it's worth... |
d_ashley |
Jan-07-04 12:51 PM |
#11 |
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Practical problems with this scenario? |
Gwendolayn |
Jan-07-04 01:48 PM |
#44 |
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i think the problem rests... |
d_ashley |
Jan-07-04 04:19 PM |
#49 |
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Sigh |
vpigrad |
Jan-07-04 12:44 PM |
#9 |
 -
WTF - "subjects"? |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 12:54 PM |
#14 |
  -
Nit-picking |
vpigrad |
Jan-07-04 01:04 PM |
#21 |
 -
No it is NOT nit-picking |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 01:13 PM |
#27 |
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"If you can't go to school, go to Tech!" |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:20 PM |
#35 |
 -
Read the constitution |
theboss |
Jan-09-04 01:28 PM |
#170 |
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Define "official capacities". |
YNGW |
Jan-07-04 12:55 PM |
#15 |
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Welcome to DU, vpigrad |
Terwilliger |
Jan-07-04 01:07 PM |
# |
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It depends. |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 12:59 PM |
#17 |
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I still can't smoke my pot |
Terwilliger |
Jan-07-04 01:06 PM |
#23 |
  -
The prohibition against you smoking pot is unconstitutional |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 01:14 PM |
#28 |
  -
And here I thought most states had criminalized pot.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:25 PM |
#39 |
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Introductory clause or context? |
Damndifino |
Jan-07-04 01:21 PM |
#37 |
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Not without changing the constitution... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:40 PM |
#42 |
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It's not my analogy, but still... |
Damndifino |
Jan-07-04 02:24 PM |
#47 |
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It's too bad... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:27 PM |
#64 |
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I counted one qualifier |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 11:42 AM |
#141 |
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If mamma wore army boots... |
hansberrym |
Jan-07-04 09:25 PM |
#114 |
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"the right of people to keep and bare arms" i want my ICBM damn it! |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 01:04 PM |
#22 |
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"the right of people to keep and bare arms"...I want my ICBM damn it! |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 01:07 PM |
#24 |
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That's BEAR arms |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 01:15 PM |
#29 |
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i perfer bare arms....it is much cooerl |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 01:17 PM |
#32 |
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"cooerl".... humm... are you drunk by any chance? ....lol |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 01:20 PM |
#36 |
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hehehe....would you like a glass of some chardonay? |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 01:34 PM |
#41 |
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Great - My favorite American subjet.... the second Amendment.... |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 01:07 PM |
#25 |
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If the constitution read, "The right to abortion shall not be infringed" |
RUexperienced |
Jan-07-04 01:15 PM |
#30 |
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If any of you can read FRENCH, I wrote an article this summer about the |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 01:20 PM |
#34 |
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I'm interested in how you reached that conclusion... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 01:31 PM |
#40 |
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Of course it's a LUDICROUS concept for everyone else . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-07-04 08:49 PM |
#105 |
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THAT IS LUDICROUS!!! The best example is that |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-08-04 07:43 AM |
#136 |
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Your points are valid, but consider this . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-08-04 07:08 PM |
#156 |
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I'm not for outlawing guns, but |
Pithlet |
Jan-08-04 01:42 PM |
#143 |
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Look at what those "snipers" in the D.C. area . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-08-04 07:12 PM |
#157 |
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Yes, it does, OBVIOUSLY |
WhoCountsTheVotes |
Jan-07-04 02:27 PM |
#48 |
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The Second Amendment simply protects |
MysticMind |
Jan-07-04 04:45 PM |
#50 |
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Bzzzz....WRONG!!! |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:32 PM |
#65 |
  -
the 2nd Amendment specifically mentions states |
MysticMind |
Jan-08-04 09:09 AM |
#138 |
 -
Please cite... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-08-04 11:27 AM |
#139 |
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you're misreading what I'm saying |
MysticMind |
Jan-08-04 01:18 PM |
#142 |
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If that were the case |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 01:54 PM |
#144 |
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That's "Army" |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 02:06 PM |
#145 |
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A Right of the People |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 02:19 PM |
#146 |
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I think tetchiness is getting the upper hand here |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 02:37 PM |
#147 |
  -
Negative |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 02:46 PM |
#148 |
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So my one remaining question is, |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 02:53 PM |
#150 |
  -
It's up to you |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 03:00 PM |
#151 |
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It's not up to me |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 03:16 PM |
#152 |
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There are many ways legal immigrants |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 03:48 PM |
#154 |
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I'm not an immigrant either |
Damndifino |
Jan-09-04 11:47 AM |
#163 |
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To bear arms is an undefined term |
Bandit |
Jan-09-04 12:26 PM |
#167 |
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Do they really have that power? |
Damndifino |
Jan-09-04 12:32 PM |
#168 |
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I want to order me a bunker busting nuke |
Bandit |
Jan-09-04 01:13 PM |
#169 |
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So what's to stop the government... |
Damndifino |
Jan-09-04 02:14 PM |
#171 |
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Not quite... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-09-04 06:34 PM |
#175 |
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Fear of the people |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 02:48 PM |
#149 |
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Amen! |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 07:34 PM |
#67 |
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Regardless.... |
deseo |
Jan-07-04 04:55 PM |
#51 |
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i don't think people need to own m-16's and machine guns to hunt deer |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 05:34 PM |
#52 |
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Nice Straw Man you have erected there, ED |
slackmaster |
Jan-07-04 05:49 PM |
#53 |
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they didn't question it because they didn't exist then |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 07:36 PM |
#69 |
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LOL!!!! |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:41 PM |
#100 |
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first post |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 06:17 PM |
#55 |
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the internet allows one to better express opinion |
rman |
Jan-07-04 06:21 PM |
#56 |
  -
M16s (and AR-15s) make good deer rifles |
jmowreader |
Jan-07-04 06:34 PM |
#58 |
   -
I agree |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 06:37 PM |
#60 |
   -
i do believe it is ILLEGAL to hunt with your perfered weapon |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 07:42 PM |
#74 |
  -
my analogy does hold |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 06:34 PM |
#59 |
   -
LOL........swat a fly with a nuke |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 07:45 PM |
#78 |
  -
Sorry.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:37 PM |
#70 |
 -
No |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 07:50 PM |
#79 |
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The First Amendment: |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:02 PM |
#83 |
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I do not like the Interstate Commerce clause |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 08:05 PM |
#85 |
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Au contraire... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:10 PM |
#88 |
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I am familiar with Lopez I think |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 08:15 PM |
#89 |
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I don't have a link.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:19 PM |
#90 |
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LOL talk about a "strawman"!!! oh and for your info ..the internet is NOT |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Jan-07-04 07:39 PM |
#71 |
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No the internet is not an arms |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 07:56 PM |
#82 |
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What's wrong with legally owning machineguns? |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:33 PM |
#66 |
 -
Nothing at all |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 07:52 PM |
#81 |
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Psssttt... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:03 PM |
#84 |
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Nor do I... |
deseo |
Jan-07-04 08:28 PM |
#95 |
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I collect them... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:29 PM |
#96 |
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It is law-abiding... |
deseo |
Jan-07-04 08:41 PM |
#101 |
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One violent crime commission = no guns ever |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 08:45 PM |
#104 |
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Yup, yup... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:52 PM |
#107 |
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I believe |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 08:55 PM |
#108 |
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No, he did. |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:56 PM |
#109 |
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outright prohibition would go to far imo |
rman |
Jan-07-04 06:13 PM |
#54 |
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the people |
methinks2 |
Jan-07-04 06:30 PM |
#57 |
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Protection from govt would be impossible |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 06:58 PM |
#62 |
  -
Seems to be working for the Iraqis. |
Cat Atomic |
Jan-07-04 07:36 PM |
#68 |
   -
We could completely DE-populate Iraq in a week. |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 07:42 PM |
#73 |
  -
I never understood that lame argument before either.... |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 07:43 PM |
#75 |
  -
Uh huh....then why haven't we? |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:07 PM |
#86 |
  -
Thats just silly! |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 08:30 PM |
#97 |
  -
Ahhh...So the dead ATF guys... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:38 PM |
#99 |
  -
Puh-LEESE!!!! mellow out |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 08:56 PM |
#110 |
  -
Uhhh...did I miss something... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:51 PM |
#80 |
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B.S. |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-07-04 07:44 PM |
#77 |
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B.S.....Really? then who ARE the people? |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:08 PM |
#87 |
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Here is my answer...sorry for the wait... |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-08-04 08:18 AM |
#137 |
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Isn't Bogus.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-09-04 05:42 AM |
#160 |
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Well, the Supreme Court said in Miller.. |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-09-04 07:42 AM |
#162 |
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So... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-09-04 12:04 PM |
#165 |
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COLT has done a fine job of |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 06:53 PM |
#61 |
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Ah. a Bellesiles supporter.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 07:40 PM |
#72 |
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You know their political leanings? |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 08:23 PM |
#91 |
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Isn't Emory seen as a generally "liberal" school? |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:25 PM |
#93 |
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Well of course, all US colleges are Liberal |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 08:36 PM |
#98 |
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If it was a conservative school.... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:43 PM |
#102 |
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I knew it! |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-07-04 08:58 PM |
#111 |
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Ummm....Am I missing something? |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 09:31 PM |
#115 |
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Dupe...sorry 'bout that... |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-07-04 08:26 PM |
#94 |
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yes ... |
number6 |
Jan-07-04 07:43 PM |
#76 |
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of course, don't be silly |
arewethereyet |
Jan-07-04 08:24 PM |
#92 |
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The 2nd Amendment protects a citizen's right to keep and bear arms . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-07-04 08:44 PM |
#103 |
 -
I prefer... |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 08:50 PM |
#106 |
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Not many people who live more than 20 miles from D.C. . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-07-04 09:00 PM |
#112 |
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That is sad... |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 09:21 PM |
#113 |
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I agree with you. I was simply pointing out . . . |
NavajoRug |
Jan-07-04 09:35 PM |
#116 |
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given their weapons related murder rate, I wouldn't say effective |
arewethereyet |
Jan-07-04 09:43 PM |
#118 |
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Exactly |
jeremy92fs |
Jan-07-04 09:47 PM |
#119 |
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Alright folks... |
ZombyWoof |
Jan-07-04 09:36 PM |
#117 |
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This is MUCH nicer than any J/PS thread |
slackmaster |
Jan-08-04 06:10 AM |
#135 |
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got yer coffee! |
ZombyWoof |
Jan-09-04 02:30 PM |
#172 |
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If you don't mind... I would like you to take a peek at this and |
frogfromthenorth2 |
Jan-09-04 02:35 PM |
#173 |
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Depends who you ask... |
Printer70 |
Jan-07-04 11:50 PM |
#120 |
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Depends what question you ask... |
hansberrym |
Jan-08-04 12:23 AM |
#122 |
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It is a GIVEN... |
hansberrym |
Jan-08-04 12:06 AM |
#121 |
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"Givens" and "Conditionals" are not mutually exclusive |
Damndifino |
Jan-08-04 11:39 AM |
#140 |
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You can't be serious |
hansberrym |
Jan-08-04 05:49 PM |
#155 |
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I can be serious and am |
Damndifino |
Jan-09-04 11:54 AM |
#164 |
-
You might consider that the other amendments of the US Bill of Rights... |
hansberrym |
Jan-09-04 06:24 PM |
#174 |
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I thought that the 2nd Amendment... |
Lestat de Lioncourt |
Jan-08-04 12:31 AM |
#123 |
 -
The Revolution |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 12:59 AM |
#124 |
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well ,t he SCOTUS did rul on this |
booley |
Jan-08-04 01:07 AM |
#125 |
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A few considerations |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 01:40 AM |
#127 |
 -
you're sort-of right. |
DoNotRefill |
Jan-08-04 02:08 AM |
#130 |
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Nope. |
Buzzz |
Jan-08-04 01:15 AM |
#126 |
 -
You are incorrect |
Columbia |
Jan-08-04 01:55 AM |
#128 |
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It's the interpretation I *prefer* however, its a lie to claim ...... |
Selwynn |
Jan-08-04 02:07 AM |
#129 |
 -
Well, you are half-right... |
hansberrym |
Jan-08-04 07:17 PM |
#158 |
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Folks, the National Guard IS NOT the militia. |
Elwood P Dowd |
Jan-08-04 02:08 AM |
#131 |
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YES |
TheMiddleRoad |
Jan-08-04 02:30 AM |
#132 |
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Does the 1st am. allow computer ownership? |
Mr.Green93 |
Jan-09-04 06:35 AM |
#161 |
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Does not matter that much |
GRClarkesq |
Jan-09-04 12:06 PM |
#166 |