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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #169
175. Not quite...
"The government has already established in many ways what "arms" can and can't be owned. Shotguns with less than eighteen inch barrels for instance or Saturday night specials or some assault weapons or machine-guns or howitzers or switchblades or ?????. You get my point I'm sure."

Miller was about a TAX levied on short barreled shotguns.

It didn't ban possession, it taxed the transfer of such weapons. And the holding in Miller stated that if there WAS a showing that such a weapon had a military use, it was protected by the Second Amendment.

Even the vaunted AW "ban" of 1994 didn't ban possession, it limited future manufacture of assault weapons. And "Saturday Night Specials" (a racist term, BTW) are still legal to manufacture in the US, just not to import.
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  -Does the 2nd Amendment allow private gun ownership? Damndifino  Jan-07-04 12:22 PM   #0 
  - Constantly mis-defined  Loonman   Jan-07-04 12:26 PM   #1 
  - It's the one amendment that the conservatives interpret liberally.  The Backlash Cometh   Jan-07-04 01:03 PM   #20 
  - The founding fathers didn't write this in stone, they weren't gods  billbuckhead   Jan-07-04 12:26 PM   #2 
  - You're right  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:00 PM   #18 
  - maybe yes maybe no but...  lib13   Jan-07-04 12:28 PM   #3 
  - In the early documents, the writers discussed exactly that.  cspiguy   Jan-07-04 12:53 PM   #13 
     - Heh.  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:10 PM   #26 
     - One man, one rifle  TheMiddleRoad   Jan-08-04 02:37 AM   #133 
        - LOL!!!  DoNotRefill   Jan-08-04 03:13 AM   #134 
     - Ambiguity was necessary to get the Constitution ratified by all 13  heidler   Jan-08-04 03:39 PM   #153 
        - By that same line of reasoning...  DoNotRefill   Jan-09-04 05:28 AM   #159 
  - Private gun ownership is not allowed...  Superfly   Jan-07-04 12:30 PM   #4 
  - In a word  MrBenchley   Jan-07-04 12:30 PM   #5 
  - What does it say...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:18 PM   #33 
  - It says that  MrBenchley   Jan-07-04 02:17 PM   #45 
  - inbred supporters believe the Bill of Rights covers individuals?  Liberal Classic   Jan-07-04 01:23 PM   #38 
     - What a pantload.....  MrBenchley   Jan-07-04 02:19 PM   #46 
        - Then explain the recent Stewart ruling...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:19 PM   #63 
  - It doesn't say anywhere what type of guns allowed  Bandit   Jan-07-04 12:33 PM   #6 
  - Actually...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:16 PM   #31 
  - Gun ownership is as enshrined in the constitution as the right to choose  dkf   Jan-07-04 12:33 PM   #7 
  - It doesn't "allow" anything  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 12:39 PM   #8 
  - Only Amendment to say "Well Regulated"  Bandit   Jan-07-04 12:47 PM   #10 
  - You're entitled to believe whatever bizarre spin you like  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 12:52 PM   #12 
  - See Post # 6  Bandit   Jan-07-04 12:56 PM   #16 
     - remember  Terwilliger   Jan-07-04 01:01 PM   #19 
  - "Well regulated" meant "well trained" -- able to behave in a well-defined  Mairead   Jan-07-04 01:44 PM   #43 
  - take it for what it's worth...  d_ashley   Jan-07-04 12:51 PM   #11 
     - Practical problems with this scenario?  Gwendolayn   Jan-07-04 01:48 PM   #44 
        - i think the problem rests...  d_ashley   Jan-07-04 04:19 PM   #49 
  - Sigh  vpigrad   Jan-07-04 12:44 PM   #9 
  - WTF - "subjects"?  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 12:54 PM   #14 
  - Nit-picking  vpigrad   Jan-07-04 01:04 PM   #21 
     - No it is NOT nit-picking  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 01:13 PM   #27 
     - "If you can't go to school, go to Tech!"  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:20 PM   #35 
     - Read the constitution  theboss   Jan-09-04 01:28 PM   #170 
  - Define "official capacities".  YNGW   Jan-07-04 12:55 PM   #15 
  - Welcome to DU, vpigrad  Terwilliger   Jan-07-04 01:07 PM   # 
  - It depends.  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 12:59 PM   #17 
  - I still can't smoke my pot  Terwilliger   Jan-07-04 01:06 PM   #23 
  - The prohibition against you smoking pot is unconstitutional  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 01:14 PM   #28 
  - And here I thought most states had criminalized pot....  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:25 PM   #39 
  - Introductory clause or context?  Damndifino   Jan-07-04 01:21 PM   #37 
     - Not without changing the constitution...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:40 PM   #42 
        - It's not my analogy, but still...  Damndifino   Jan-07-04 02:24 PM   #47 
           - It's too bad...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:27 PM   #64 
           - I counted one qualifier  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 11:42 AM   #141 
           - If mamma wore army boots...  hansberrym   Jan-07-04 09:25 PM   #114 
  - "the right of people to keep and bare arms" i want my ICBM damn it!  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 01:04 PM   #22 
  - "the right of people to keep and bare arms"...I want my ICBM damn it!  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 01:07 PM   #24 
  - That's BEAR arms  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 01:15 PM   #29 
     - i perfer bare arms....it is much cooerl  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 01:17 PM   #32 
        - "cooerl".... humm... are you drunk by any chance? ....lol  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 01:20 PM   #36 
           - hehehe....would you like a glass of some chardonay?  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 01:34 PM   #41 
  - Great - My favorite American subjet.... the second Amendment....  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 01:07 PM   #25 
  - If the constitution read, "The right to abortion shall not be infringed"  RUexperienced   Jan-07-04 01:15 PM   #30 
  - If any of you can read FRENCH, I wrote an article this summer about the  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 01:20 PM   #34 
  - I'm interested in how you reached that conclusion...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 01:31 PM   #40 
  - Of course it's a LUDICROUS concept for everyone else . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-07-04 08:49 PM   #105 
     - THAT IS LUDICROUS!!! The best example is that  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-08-04 07:43 AM   #136 
     - Your points are valid, but consider this . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-08-04 07:08 PM   #156 
     - I'm not for outlawing guns, but  Pithlet   Jan-08-04 01:42 PM   #143 
        - Look at what those "snipers" in the D.C. area . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-08-04 07:12 PM   #157 
  - Yes, it does, OBVIOUSLY  WhoCountsTheVotes   Jan-07-04 02:27 PM   #48 
  - The Second Amendment simply protects  MysticMind   Jan-07-04 04:45 PM   #50 
  - Bzzzz....WRONG!!!  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:32 PM   #65 
  - the 2nd Amendment specifically mentions states  MysticMind   Jan-08-04 09:09 AM   #138 
     - Please cite...  DoNotRefill   Jan-08-04 11:27 AM   #139 
        - you're misreading what I'm saying  MysticMind   Jan-08-04 01:18 PM   #142 
           - If that were the case  Columbia   Jan-08-04 01:54 PM   #144 
              - That's "Army"  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 02:06 PM   #145 
                 - A Right of the People  Columbia   Jan-08-04 02:19 PM   #146 
                    - I think tetchiness is getting the upper hand here  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 02:37 PM   #147 
                    - Negative  Columbia   Jan-08-04 02:46 PM   #148 
                       - So my one remaining question is,  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 02:53 PM   #150 
                       - It's up to you  Columbia   Jan-08-04 03:00 PM   #151 
                          - It's not up to me  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 03:16 PM   #152 
                             - There are many ways legal immigrants  Columbia   Jan-08-04 03:48 PM   #154 
                                - I'm not an immigrant either  Damndifino   Jan-09-04 11:47 AM   #163 
                       - To bear arms is an undefined term  Bandit   Jan-09-04 12:26 PM   #167 
                          - Do they really have that power?  Damndifino   Jan-09-04 12:32 PM   #168 
                             - I want to order me a bunker busting nuke  Bandit   Jan-09-04 01:13 PM   #169 
                                - So what's to stop the government...  Damndifino   Jan-09-04 02:14 PM   #171 
                                - Not quite...  DoNotRefill   Jan-09-04 06:34 PM   #175 
                    - Fear of the people  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 02:48 PM   #149 
  - Amen!  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 07:34 PM   #67 
  - Regardless....  deseo   Jan-07-04 04:55 PM   #51 
  - i don't think people need to own m-16's and machine guns to hunt deer  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 05:34 PM   #52 
     - Nice Straw Man you have erected there, ED  slackmaster   Jan-07-04 05:49 PM   #53 
     - they didn't question it because they didn't exist then  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 07:36 PM   #69 
        - LOL!!!!  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:41 PM   #100 
     - first post  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 06:17 PM   #55 
     - the internet allows one to better express opinion  rman   Jan-07-04 06:21 PM   #56 
     - M16s (and AR-15s) make good deer rifles  jmowreader   Jan-07-04 06:34 PM   #58 
     - I agree  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 06:37 PM   #60 
     - i do believe it is ILLEGAL to hunt with your perfered weapon  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 07:42 PM   #74 
     - my analogy does hold  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 06:34 PM   #59 
     - LOL........swat a fly with a nuke  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 07:45 PM   #78 
     - Sorry....  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:37 PM   #70 
        - No  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 07:50 PM   #79 
           - The First Amendment:  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:02 PM   #83 
              - I do not like the Interstate Commerce clause  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 08:05 PM   #85 
                 - Au contraire...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:10 PM   #88 
                    - I am familiar with Lopez I think  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 08:15 PM   #89 
                       - I don't have a link....  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:19 PM   #90 
     - LOL talk about a "strawman"!!! oh and for your info ..the internet is NOT  ElsewheresDaughter   Jan-07-04 07:39 PM   #71 
        - No the internet is not an arms  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 07:56 PM   #82 
     - What's wrong with legally owning machineguns?  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:33 PM   #66 
     - Nothing at all  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 07:52 PM   #81 
        - Psssttt...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:03 PM   #84 
     - Nor do I...  deseo   Jan-07-04 08:28 PM   #95 
        - I collect them...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:29 PM   #96 
           - It is law-abiding...  deseo   Jan-07-04 08:41 PM   #101 
              - One violent crime commission = no guns ever  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 08:45 PM   #104 
              - Yup, yup...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:52 PM   #107 
                 - I believe  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 08:55 PM   #108 
                    - No, he did.  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:56 PM   #109 
  - outright prohibition would go to far imo  rman   Jan-07-04 06:13 PM   #54 
  - the people  methinks2   Jan-07-04 06:30 PM   #57 
  - Protection from govt would be impossible  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 06:58 PM   #62 
  - Seems to be working for the Iraqis.  Cat Atomic   Jan-07-04 07:36 PM   #68 
  - We could completely DE-populate Iraq in a week.  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 07:42 PM   #73 
     - I never understood that lame argument before either....  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 07:43 PM   #75 
     - Uh huh....then why haven't we?  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:07 PM   #86 
        - Thats just silly!  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 08:30 PM   #97 
           - Ahhh...So the dead ATF guys...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:38 PM   #99 
              - Puh-LEESE!!!! mellow out  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 08:56 PM   #110 
  - Uhhh...did I miss something...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:51 PM   #80 
  - B.S.  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-07-04 07:44 PM   #77 
     - B.S.....Really? then who ARE the people?  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:08 PM   #87 
        - Here is my answer...sorry for the wait...  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-08-04 08:18 AM   #137 
           - Isn't Bogus....  DoNotRefill   Jan-09-04 05:42 AM   #160 
              - Well, the Supreme Court said in Miller..  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-09-04 07:42 AM   #162 
                 - So...  DoNotRefill   Jan-09-04 12:04 PM   #165 
  - COLT has done a fine job of  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 06:53 PM   #61 
  - Ah. a Bellesiles supporter....  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 07:40 PM   #72 
     - You know their political leanings?  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 08:23 PM   #91 
        - Isn't Emory seen as a generally "liberal" school?  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:25 PM   #93 
        - Well of course, all US colleges are Liberal  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 08:36 PM   #98 
           - If it was a conservative school....  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:43 PM   #102 
              - I knew it!  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-07-04 08:58 PM   #111 
                 - Ummm....Am I missing something?  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 09:31 PM   #115 
        - Dupe...sorry 'bout that...  DoNotRefill   Jan-07-04 08:26 PM   #94 
  - yes ...  number6   Jan-07-04 07:43 PM   #76 
  - of course, don't be silly  arewethereyet   Jan-07-04 08:24 PM   #92 
  - The 2nd Amendment protects a citizen's right to keep and bear arms . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-07-04 08:44 PM   #103 
  - I prefer...  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 08:50 PM   #106 
     - Not many people who live more than 20 miles from D.C. . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-07-04 09:00 PM   #112 
     - That is sad...  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 09:21 PM   #113 
        - I agree with you. I was simply pointing out . . .  NavajoRug   Jan-07-04 09:35 PM   #116 
     - given their weapons related murder rate, I wouldn't say effective  arewethereyet   Jan-07-04 09:43 PM   #118 
        - Exactly  jeremy92fs   Jan-07-04 09:47 PM   #119 
  - Alright folks...  ZombyWoof   Jan-07-04 09:36 PM   #117 
  - This is MUCH nicer than any J/PS thread  slackmaster   Jan-08-04 06:10 AM   #135 
     - got yer coffee!  ZombyWoof   Jan-09-04 02:30 PM   #172 
        - If you don't mind... I would like you to take a peek at this and  frogfromthenorth2   Jan-09-04 02:35 PM   #173 
  - Depends who you ask...  Printer70   Jan-07-04 11:50 PM   #120 
  - Depends what question you ask...  hansberrym   Jan-08-04 12:23 AM   #122 
  - It is a GIVEN...  hansberrym   Jan-08-04 12:06 AM   #121 
  - "Givens" and "Conditionals" are not mutually exclusive  Damndifino   Jan-08-04 11:39 AM   #140 
     - You can't be serious  hansberrym   Jan-08-04 05:49 PM   #155 
        - I can be serious and am  Damndifino   Jan-09-04 11:54 AM   #164 
           - You might consider that the other amendments of the US Bill of Rights...  hansberrym   Jan-09-04 06:24 PM   #174 
  - I thought that the 2nd Amendment...  Lestat de Lioncourt   Jan-08-04 12:31 AM   #123 
  - The Revolution  Columbia   Jan-08-04 12:59 AM   #124 
  - well ,t he SCOTUS did rul on this  booley   Jan-08-04 01:07 AM   #125 
  - A few considerations  Columbia   Jan-08-04 01:40 AM   #127 
  - you're sort-of right.  DoNotRefill   Jan-08-04 02:08 AM   #130 
  - Nope.  Buzzz   Jan-08-04 01:15 AM   #126 
  - You are incorrect  Columbia   Jan-08-04 01:55 AM   #128 
  - It's the interpretation I *prefer* however, its a lie to claim ......  Selwynn   Jan-08-04 02:07 AM   #129 
  - Well, you are half-right...  hansberrym   Jan-08-04 07:17 PM   #158 
  - Folks, the National Guard IS NOT the militia.  Elwood P Dowd   Jan-08-04 02:08 AM   #131 
  - YES  TheMiddleRoad   Jan-08-04 02:30 AM   #132 
  - Does the 1st am. allow computer ownership?  Mr.Green93   Jan-09-04 06:35 AM   #161 
  - Does not matter that much  GRClarkesq   Jan-09-04 12:06 PM   #166 
 

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